 Poster: A snowHead
|
moon,
| Quote: |
Can I ask how you Lassoo just a little bit of the previous Post
|
Put the mouse at the word you want, left click and hold, then drag to the right, text will go blue, then click on 'quote selected' in posting box.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
PS-- As in my sig--an Italian instructor's constant shouting of "Bust al valle" (Bust to the Valley)-- has stayed in my mind ever since-- and it really does help.
When you're sitting on a chairlift and watch other skiers, it is amazing how many people finish their turns by turning into the mountain...and if you tell yourself : "bust al valle" this doesn't happen! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| eng_ch, how do you cope with situations when the downhill ski is initially the inside ski, then becomes the uphill ski as you follow the curve around? Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms depending on where you are in the turn, |
Old and new i.e. old downhill ski becomes new uphill ski as I go round the turn. Works for me <shrug>
| Quote: |
| whereas inside and outside skis are always absolute terms no matter what stage of the turn you are in. |
So which is which? Inside the turn? Inside to the mountain? If the former, then it changes with each turn the same way the uphill/downhill does, no? I'm confused already! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Spyderman,
| Quote: |
left click and hold, then drag to the right
|
 So easy when you know how!! Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Julieanne, There's an easier way!!! Spyderman, told me
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar
| Quote: |
In my limited experience I think new skiers pay far too much attention to getting the inside ski "parallel"
|
Parallelitis ! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yoda, surely it's those teaching/encouraging us along who instill in us the affliction of parallelitis - the newbies' Holy Grail? All I want to do is to be able to feel comfortable and enjoy coming down blue runs whilst really feeling in control, & hopefully not looking like Bambi on oversized skates! It doesn't matter to me whether it's using ploughs/parallels or whatever if it works!
At the moment I am still struggling for real control in linked snowplough turns unless on a gentle slope (on steeper ones I seem to end up skidding diagonally downwards between turns and issues of technique are replaced by the desire to survive upright and not build up too much speed). So I ask for advice & people have told me real control doesn't come until you achieve parallel turns and that snowploughs are not much use on anything steeper than easy blues - who am I to doubt what I am told? So I keep on trying to get the skis closer together in the vain hope the sense of real control will magically happen!  I do know one of my real problems is tension, as the fear of losing control entirely or falling over and injuring myself takes over and this tension reduces my ability to really feel what the skis are doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
NewSkier, Have good lessons, practise wht you are taught, and it will come. We have all been where you are, and some of us were there for a long time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Frosty the Snowman, Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| NewSkier wrote: |
| [.... I do know one of my real problems is tension..... |
My daughter used to ski with her walkman on--to music--....and I sing to myself (usually not aloud!)--when skiing-- I find it really helps relieve any tension--or negative thoughts of falling and injuries..
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
NewSkier, I would suggest that most beginners express a desire to "ski parallel" and that there's nothing wrong with that at all - but it should occur as a result of skill development and increasing speeds not as a cause of those things.
Ali Ross once told me that he had given up teaching parallel on dry slopes because in general people did not go fast enough on them for parallel skiing to evolve (this was in longer ski days mind). As a dry slope man I haven't let that discourage me of course, however, it is probably easier to develop the skill on snow and once learned it is perfectly possible to ski parallel very effectively on dry slopes.
If you are sliding diagonally then you are not committing to the edge of the outside ski. Unless you learn to do that your inside ski will not naturally feel the desire to narrow the wedge angle (in fact you are probably standing on it!) and "forcing" the skis closer together will only serve to narrow your base of support and make you feel even less in control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Megamum - I too used to traverse across the slope inbetween turns, going so slowly that I had to pole. It took me quite a few trips before I became accustomed to speed on slopes and to enjoy it. You will get there. Invest as much as you can in good tuition at this stage and try to get out onto the actual mountain to enjoy skiing to a place, perhaps a mountain restaurant for lunch.
I can now ski fast on easier slopes but still have problems in accepting speed on steep slopes - I think I'm a control freak!  Your confidence will grow each time you ski I'm sure and with confidence will come more relaxation. My instructor on my last trip commented that on steeper slopes it looked like I was gripping onto my poles for dear life - when he said that I realised he was dead right!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Yoda wrote: |
rob@rar
| Quote: |
In my limited experience I think new skiers pay far too much attention to getting the inside ski "parallel"
|
Parallelitis ! |
I'm sure I suffered from it at one point in my skiing 'career', but I'm glad I'm cured of it now. I'm happy to snowplough and stem when the conditions call for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| eng_ch wrote: |
| Quote: |
| whereas inside and outside skis are always absolute terms no matter what stage of the turn you are in. |
So which is which? Inside the turn? Inside to the mountain? If the former, then it changes with each turn the same way the uphill/downhill does, no? I'm confused already! |
Inside of the turn.
You ski in curves, broadly speaking each of which will have a focal point (the centre of a circle). The leg closest to the focal point of your curve is the inside leg, the leg furthest from it is your outside leg (most of your weight will be on the outside leg). When you cross-over from one set of edges to the other to curve in the opposite direction your old inside leg now becomes your new outside leg. Uphill and downhill in this context can be confusing, to say the least.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Megamum, cathy, No, no girls - I'm the control freak when it comes to wanting to be in total control of my bloomin skis! Not only do I cling onto my poles for dear life, I try to dig my toes into the snow as brakes too! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I think we ought to change the name of our other thread from the 'nervous and beginners etc' thread to 'control freaks anonymous'!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| I think that it is much better to focus on what the outside ski is/should be doing, and the inside ski will look after itself. In most circumstances it is the outside ski that does most of the work of steering you around the curve, so that is the one which you should be most concerned about. In my limited experience I think new skiers pay far too much attention to getting the inside ski "parallel" when it would be much better for them to have a solid snowplough with which they are confident to increase their speed until the point at which the inside ski instinctively parallels the outside ski. |
I suggest moving the inside ski first. You have to, really, to keep it out of the way of the outside ski as it comes around. Even in tipping, I suggest tipping the new inside ski first. As Bob Barnes (of EpicSki and a PSIA Rocky Mountain Examiner and member of the Education Committee) says, "Right tip right to go right, left tip left to go left."
| rob@rar wrote: |
| eng_ch, how do you cope with situations when the downhill ski is initially the inside ski, then becomes the uphill ski as you follow the curve around? Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms depending on where you are in the turn, whereas inside and outside skis are always absolute terms no matter what stage of the turn you are in. |
Exactly. And which is downhill when your skis are pointing straight downhill such as is typical in the very belly of a turn?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| eng_ch wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| eng_ch, how do you cope with situations when the downhill ski is initially the inside ski, then becomes the uphill ski as you follow the curve around? Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms depending on where you are in the turn, |
Old and new i.e. old downhill ski becomes new uphill ski as I go round the turn. Works for me <shrug> |
But, when the old uphill ski becomes the new downhill ski, nothing changes. In fact, at that moment, you should have your pressure entirely (or nearly so) on that ski just before (so the uphill ski has it all) and just after (so the downhill ski has it all). So, how do you decide what outcome to get for your various skis?
I find it easier to think of my skis as inside and outside since it is at transition (when the old inside ski becomes the new outside ski) when movements create outcomes that are consistent. I move across my skis into the inside of the new turn and pressure begins to increase on the new outside ski and does so until I begin to transition to the next turn when it will again move to the new outside ski. I can't say anything like that about uphill/downhill, which tends to assume that there is no belly to the turn. In other words, uphill/downhill implies that you move from traversing in one direction to traversing in the other; your turns aren't round or "S" shaped, but jagged or "Z" shaped. If you have "S" shaped turns, most of the turns happen when there isn't an obvious uphill or downhill ski.
| eng_ch wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| whereas inside and outside skis are always absolute terms no matter what stage of the turn you are in. |
So which is which? Inside the turn? Inside to the mountain? If the former, then it changes with each turn the same way the uphill/downhill does, no? I'm confused already! |
Inside of the turn. Always.
I don't know how to get inside the mountain.  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Although I struggle with putting it into practice, I can see the concept of inside and outside ski as opposed to up/downhill. I visualise each turn as travelling a small part of a circle so the inside one's the one nearest the middle of that circle - I guess that helps the S not Z shape too? What I can't sort out is why you say don't traverse - in Serbia I was told to use as much of the width of the slope as I could, bending knees/ankles while turning in the softer snow towards the sides and then to travel standing up, with skis parallel, in a straight line across, or slightly descending, depending on whether I wanted to decrease or increase speed. My trouble is that when the slope's a bit steeper, I don't seem able to get the turn round far enough to travel anything but diagonally down & that means increasing speed, and so the whole journey across becomes a continued effort to keep turning, and becomes a snowploughed skid.
| Quote: |
| Yoda said: If you are sliding diagonally then you are not committing to the edge of the outside ski. |
That sounds about right - and I am trying to learn to do so on the less steep slope so that the fear factor is reduced while I try to aquire the new habit, but at Xscape the lower part of the slope's very narrow, as there's an ice slide one side, and they rope off the other side for tobogganing and it of course is only a very few turns to the bottom!
| Quote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, you said "have good lessons" |
- I wish! Xscape offer nothing at present between Level 4 and 5, except to tell you to go practise for 5-10 hours and that is what I'm doing, but the confidence isn't coming and improvement isn't happening really. For an interim private lesson they'd charge £150 for an hour and that is not on! I'm pinning my hopes on two things for sorting out this plateau - I am going to Tignes for 3 days at the end of April where I'm hoping for lessons from Stewart Woodward, and also I am going to try to do an expedition to Tamworth for their Easy Sliders day course, which is marketed as a day for those who are novice rec standard, ie just got Level 4; itcosts about £80 & is a total of 4.5 hrs of group instruction, lunch and an hour's practice at the end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| NewSkier wrote: |
| Although I struggle with putting it into practice, I can see the concept of inside and outside ski as opposed to up/downhill. I visualise each turn as travelling a small part of a circle so the inside one's the one nearest the middle of that circle - I guess that helps the S not Z shape too? |
Exactly right, and if you keep thinking like that you'll make quick progress S-shaped turns not Z-shaped turns is the key to using your skis properly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
Inside of the turn.
You ski in curves, broadly speaking each of which will have a focal point (the centre of a circle). The leg closest to the focal point of your curve is the inside leg, the leg furthest from it is your outside leg (most of your weight will be on the outside leg). When you cross-over from one set of edges to the other to curve in the opposite direction your old inside leg now becomes your new outside leg. Uphill and downhill in this context can be confusing, to say the least. |
OK, I get that - but I have to think about it to imagine it whereas I can immediately imagine which leg is being talked about with the terms uphill and downhill, I don't have to work it out, I can see it. So for me, that saves thinking time, reduces hesitation and takes me a step further towards not having to think about it at all (second nature). For me, inside/outside is the concept that confuses me, not uphill/downhill. Everyone has different triggers / confusions I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
What I can't sort out is why you say don't traverse
|
because it serves no useful purpose and just causes congestion for other users and maybe an emotional factor for you as you "wait" to make your next turn. control speed by "finishing" one turn properly - ie even going back uphill a bit if you wish - and then immediately link into the next by turning downhill again. The rhythm and "rebound" energy you get from one turn will then actually help with the next.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Yoda,
| Quote: |
| ......immediately link into the next by turning downhill again |
does that mean you are taking only a fairly narrow path down? I do take the point about the wait for the next turn - I did that in Serbia, going across thinking "I've got to turn in minute, got to, got to.......oohh I'm getting close to the edge...aargh!"
However, is it useful to extend the travel in order to get the skis parallel before the next turn, or should I not worry about that at all?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NewSkier,
No it just means that the turns are linked to form big S shapes, with no straight lines between each turn. You can do short tight turns or long sweeping ones, as long as there are no straight bits between each turn. That way you get a rhythm going. What you're ideally looking for is a constant speed, rather than fast, slow, fast ,slow,etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
That's right - and note btw that I'm not talking about easiski's pet "traversing" subject here I agree with her that traversing in itself is a useful, nay essential, skill. But when you're turning you should be turning, and when you're traversing that's something else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Yoda, just don't go there......
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
What a great thread.
Loads of advice and tips from those that really know and backed up with tales from others who have been there, suffered and broken through.
Well done all you . This kind of advice would cost £££ in a book or instructor time if explained whilst stood on the side of the slope (BTW, I'm not saying that its a replacement for time with a good instructor, but should help in getting maximum value out of that time).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
This kind of advice would cost £££ in a book or instructor time if explained whilst stood on the side of the slope (BTW, I'm not saying that its a replacement for time with a good instructor, but should help in getting maximum value out of that time).
|
jmdohanlon, That's what I think is so amazing about being part of this - so many people prepared to pitch in and advise largely complete strangers - thanks all
A couple of times on holiday I did try to make less traversing between turns and get the turns in more often, i.e. tried for a rhythm - I guess this is what you mean by linked turns - one turn following the other? Like the folk on the rhythm training video - posted for me a few weeks back were doing?
Also, in the above there have been several mentions of class levels at the indoor slopes - level 2, 4 etc. You've all seen the video - where would you say I was?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Megamum,
| Quote: |
Like the folk on the rhythm training video
|
where would I find this ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
thewahwah, plenty of good instructors in Europe. In Courchevel for example there are two fairly large British ski schools with very good reputations (NewGen and Ski Supreme) plus a number of smaller schools and independent instructors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, I agree with you entirely and it was not my intention to tar everyone with the same brush, I just saw and heard too many horror stories during our stay in Courchevel - mainly regarding ESF. I, for one, am not too fond of seeing little children left lying in the snow crying their eyes out because an instructor can't be bothered. Another instructor led a group of sub-5 year olds across a narrow tree-lined piste in front of me without even looking up the slope to see what was coming down beforehand. There they all were lined up waiting to be wiped-out by a 14 stone lump of me hurling down towards them as I had nowhere else to go (luckily I didn't hit anyone but it could have been nasty and my conscience would have been nagging me the rest of my trip if I had). Even in Canada, where you have the mountain to yourself, our instructor always insisted we stand in single-file along a piste and never across it. One girl we met told us of her private snowboarding lesson that consisted of her ESF instructor going down to the bottom of the slope and chatting on his mobile phone leaving her stranded up the hill. All basic safety and customer service stuff really. If an instructor can't provide that then I would be extremely concerned about the quality of instruction I am receiving.
We were fortunate enough to get chatting to Ali (one of the founders of New Gen) and he said it really is a quality issue and ESF are so big that they don't have to be concerned about customer satisfaction.
Anyway, it wasn't really the intention of the post to flame ski schools on the continent. It was to pass on a little tip to Megamum to help her on her way to skiing parallel. BTW the tip came from an English instructor in Banff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
A BIG thank you to Simon Jones (The Ski Doctor) who has turned us into total SnowHeads
|
Good old Simon! We're buddies from a long way back, and I'm glad he's helped you out.
I really must get over to Sunshine and have a ski with him, better yet, get him here to Whistler
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
thewahwah, I agree, too many bad stories about large ESF schools to give me any confidence to use them. I know a couple of the NewGen directors who work hard to maintain a high standard of instruction across their school, but it is no easy task as the expand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, I'm sure it's incredibly difficult for them to get everyone singing off the same hymn sheet but at least they are trying.
veeeight, He's a cracking bloke and Lindsey's a dream too. If we're ever fortunate enough to make it back to Sunshine, we owe them several pints (or ½ litres).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
From our experiences in Courchevel we just did not see the same level of enthusiasm or professionalism from the ESF instructors plus the language barrier was too big at times. One instructor simply watched one of her pupils slide backwards down a slope because she couldn't get the English for 'reverse snowplough' out. 