 Poster: A snowHead
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Is the leaning tower of Pisa upright? [it was designed by an Italian ski boot manufacturer] |
Distinctively not vertical.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I said legend not Leg end! 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 20-03-07 9:39; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I wouldn't dream of getting ski boots that butt the toes, whether it's a '1960s retro' fitting or a '2010 boot odyssey' fitting.
Do you believe these 'legends', boredsurfin, or do you think for yourself?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
David Goldsmith, edgy, edgy 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
rob@rar, yes but is the leaning tower of Pisa upright?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| rob@rar, yes but is the leaning tower of Pisa upright? |
It's an unhelpful term as it is not precise enough. To the casual punter it might look "upright" but to an engineer or an architect it might look entirely different. It's much better to be precise about all things, including boot fitting 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
David Goldsmith,
| Quote: |
Do you believe these 'legends', boredsurfin
|
I can only offer my experience as the husband of a very satisfied customer of CEM.
Colin Martin at Solutions 4 feet in Bicester.
His website (with directions from North London) can be found at www.solutions4feet.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob, OK, here's one dictionary [Oxford] definition of 'upright':
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
David Goldsmith, The figure of 3-4 cm is just an approx figure, based on mondo 26.5 average zeppa angle(Industry standard). The vertical measurement from rear spoiler to base board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What a load of bull.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
rob, OK, here's one dictionary [Oxford] definition of 'upright':
|
Here's another from the Oxford regarding the use of the word upright
| Quote: |
| Adverb: in or into a vertical position |
which seems to indicate that a more precise way of using language is much better when describing things like this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| What a load of bull. |
It didn't take you long to slip back into insults 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, This is wrong David ... reducing the length of the boot will, too , reduce the volume to offer a better fit. |
I strongly disagree. Toes shouldn't butt, and the crucial area of fit doesn't relate to the toe area - it's the part of the foot around the heel, instep, forefoot and cuff. Giving people boots which are too short can result in black toenail. A little bit of roominess in front of the toes is welcome, so long as the main body of the foot is snugly fitted. |
For my 8 penneth: My toes have been fine - no soreness in the nail, and no blackness. The boots help me stand in the right position when on skis. I am wondering how long they will last though as I do spend a lot of time leaning in the front of the boot 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| What a load of bull. |
It didn't take you long to slip back into insults |
Better than slipping into unconsciousness.
What on earth is this ...
| Quote: |
| The figure of 3-4 cm is just an approx figure, based on mondo 26.5 average zeppa angle(Industry standard). The vertical measurement from rear spoiler to base board. |
... supposed to mean?
It's pure mumbo-jumbo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
David Goldsmith, Sounds like technical speak understood by experts in that particular field. Have you ever listened to 2 experienced motor mechanics having a chat?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
David Goldsmith, Blue sky engineering, thinking outside of the box
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
What on earth is this ...
| Quote: |
| The figure of 3-4 cm is just an approx figure, based on mondo 26.5 average zeppa angle(Industry standard). The vertical measurement from rear spoiler to base board. |
... supposed to mean?
It's pure mumbo-jumbo. |
If you don't understand I'm sure that SZK would be happy to explain to you. Flinging insults because you don't understand something just seems to be disrespectful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
OK, well if you bought ski boots from me (I don't sell them any more, but used to), I wouldn't be selling short sizes, talking about "Zeppa angle" or "base board", or dishing out misleading comment about 3-4cm needed to prevent toe-butting (black toe).
It's important that skiing, or anything else, is addressed in plain English.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've always found it useful to analyze the SHD, check the dorsiflexion, adjust the positive and negative delta angles, grind the varus for optimal pronation, as well as the HIP before looking at Zeppa angles.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, You last fitted boots around 29 years ago ... |
Thanks for the archive hour.
Perhaps more relevantly, I spent 10 years as equipment editor of a ski magazine after that.
The ski business is full of bull and probably won't change. It's all part of the entertainment mix and smallzookeeper - to his credit - is very much an element of that mix.
The important thing is to know that your toes shouldn't butt - including when the ankle is unflexed and the lower leg is upright. Anyone who's suffered black toe will want that extra 0.5cm to avoid it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
David Goldsmith, Alpine Sports ski shop, that brings back some memories, was it really 30 year's ago? Always cheaper than Lillywhite's even after my THF staff discount!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
David Goldsmith, Don't forget the Dubbin
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
David Goldsmith, The Zeppa angle is the relationship between the Off-Horizontal to Off-Vertical angle measured off the base board (the bit inside your clog) to deturmine the angle the foot will sit inside the boot, most commonly between 11 and 19 degress. This is different to the Outside Horizontal to Off Vertical angle, measured outside the shell. If a foot of a certain length, is Dorsi-flexed at say 15 degrees and the toe doesn't touch the front, then we reduce dorsiflexion closer to 90degrees upright, then the rear spoiler of the coller/cuff will cause forwars preasure, forcing the foot forward and therefore closer the front of the shell. My maths could be better, can anyone tell me the distance required to enable a foot 274mm flexed at 75 degrees to then, with the leg standing upright at 90degrees, i have just measured 5cm.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 20-03-07 11:15; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| My maths could be better, can anyone tell me the distance required to enable a foot 274mm flexed at 75 degrees to then stand upright at 90degrees, i have just measured 5cm. |
Why would you want your foot to stand upright?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
David Goldsmith, I think the point is that to walk in a ski boot your foot will try to Plantarflex, given the Zeppa Angle of the Modern ski boot it will force the foot into the toebox area and on an average of the figure i quoted above, you'll need to buy a boot 5 cm too long to be able to maximise this comfortably.
So i'll edit my other post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
1-0
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
SMALLZOOKEEPER, you're encouraging people to believe that they should buy a short size to ski better. I'm saying that a 0.5 greater size (Mondopoint or US or English) could mean the difference between pink toe and black toe.
It's a gross exaggeration to say that you need 2 extra inches in a boot (5cm) to avoid this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
David Goldsmith, 0.5 of a size doesn't exist, unless you mean 27.5 to 28. in which case it's still a full size. However given a certain foot type, a Footbed can reduce elongation beyond half a size. I'm not suggeting you need to buy a boot 5cm too big to advoid black toe, i was returning to your point about standing upright, should you need to do this, then a boot 5cm too long may be needed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, 0.5 of a size doesn't exist, unless you mean 27.5 to 28. in which case it's still a full size. |
No, it's a half size.
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| I'm not suggeting you need to buy a boot 5cm too big to advoid black toe, i was returning to your point about standing upright, should you need to do this, then a boot 5cm too long may be needed. |
Not necessarily. It would depend on how the boot shell was redesigned to achieve this. The way the shaft of the boot was linked to the lower shell would determine the amount that the foot shifts forwards/backwards. But this is all hypothetical - no one's advocating boots with vertical shafts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
David Goldsmith, There is no such thing as a half size in ski boots. Just half sized stickers and labels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Tightwads. When you're paying that money, the least you should get is a full-sized sticker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
At the risk of appearing to be taking sides (which I am not) - skiing in a fully (ankle) flexed position is not something that is done.
Neither is standing with your calves against the back of the boot.
In a neutral centred position (whole arch support, light pressure agaisnt the shin) your toes should not be banging against the front of the boot during skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
