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Title Edit: There's always room for Improvement!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
fatbob wrote:
little tiger,

not everyone actually cares about the perfect carved turn they are off somewhere else doing something that is more interesting to them.

.


was not ME that was moaning about wanting to ski FASTER and so needing tighter boots....

Reality is unless you are taking up SPEED skiing,
FASTER = need to be able to arc2arc.... (then if you want to race modern slalom better be able to do a nice pivot and reengagement too amongst other things)


In fact I was the NOT speed person until just recently when some fool threw me into a race course and then created a small tiger shaped monster that wanted to race more....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
FACT - comfortable boots that fit correctly mean you have plenty of control and make skiing a fun, enjoyable experience
FACT - sloppy boots can hurt you shins and ankle bones, give less control so less fun
FACT - boots too tight can hurt and deaden you feet which again results in less control and even less fun

But as we know, a boot that fits too comfortably at first will pack down over a period of days/weeks and possibly become too big. But for a recreational skier, this, in reality, could be over a matter of years. So why suffer pain at the start in case the boots become too big 5 years down the line? For someone who does several weeks per year then perhaps this consideration is more important - but then again the person doing several weeks per year has much more opportunity for trips to the bootfitter anyway. But a one or two week per year skier may not wish to "waste" time getting boots ground or stretched a bit more day after day, and would rather their hard earned holiday time was spent actually skiing.

I really don't think anyone should suffer pain, or even be made to feel that if they don't suffer pain then their boots are no good! And I don't think anyone should feel obliged to spend more than they want to on equipment and lessons. After all, for 99.9% of skiers, this is a hobby sport/holiday activity, not a job or professional sport.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi gang, good topic.

First, let me start by saying a well fit ski boot is very much an asset. I always suggest to skiers, even vacation level skiers, that the best equipment purchase they can make is a quality pair of ski boots fit to their foot by a boot fitter who really knows what he/she is doing (never met a she fitter, but I'm sure they're out there, and gotta stay PC wink ). Skis are not as important, renting is fine, because as long as you have a good connection to the ski/snow through a well fit boot any ski can be skied well. However, rent some cheap "one shell fits all" boots and your long awaited for vacation can prove to be a painful, more challenging than necessary, nightmare.

So what do I mean by a "boot fitter who really knows what he/she is doing"? Well, there's much more to a quality fit than just making a boot walk out the door comfortable, and a fitter that doesn't understand ALL the aspects of a proper and functional fit can actually do more harm than good in messing with your boots. Anyone can hang a shingle and call themselves a boot fitter, but those who really understand their trade and can make modifications that actually enhance on snow performance are rare. If you saw some of the stupid things done to boots in the name of "performance enhancement" that I've seen, you'd shudder.

Over compacting the foot is one of those missteps. The foot is a magnificent balance mechanism. Within the foot are 3 bone trusses that span heel to big toe side, heal to little toe side, and big toe side to little toe side. When pressure is applied to this truss triangle via standing on our feet, those trusses compress, and the tension in the trusses that compression causes creates a very solid platform for us to balance upon. That compression causes the foot to expand laterally, so a foot packed into a ski boot so tightly that it can't expand laterally has it's ability to create that solid platform compromised. Also compressing the trusses causes the foot to settle downward. If a footbed is built up too high in the arch, settling is impossible, and your foot has it's potential to serve as platform from which to balance compromised. Might as well just stick your feet in your boot shells, fill them with wet concrete, let it set, then go try to ski.

This is what I mean by boot fitters who can do more harm than good. Forward lean and ramp angle are other areas that a ignorant boot fitter can screw up royally. I've seen racers who could not get there hips forward to save their life, or any pressure on the tongue of the boot, because of the heal lift their "professional boot fitter" put in their boots to "help them get forward".

So how do you find a good boot fitter? Word of mouth is your best bet. But be cautious, for often the knowledge of the skier providing the endorsement may not be sufficient to make a legitimate evaluation. My suggestion is to go to your nearest resort, ask to talk to the director of the junior race program, and ask him who he sends his racers to. Those guys have a lot of experience, and have an eye for if the work their kids had done is truly working or not. And expect that which ever fitter you end up going to will provide a multi visit product, with tweaks to the work after on snow evaluation. That should be an up-front stated part of the fit.

As to what Little Tiger was saying about where the most bang for your buck comes from in terms of performance enhancement initiatives: in all but the most grossly misaligned skiers, proper instruction will beat tweaking a comfortable fitting boot hands down. I've been coaching racers for almost 30 years. Back when I started this boot fitting stuff was pretty much reserved to relieving tear causing pain. Other than that, we pretty much took what god gave the kids and worked with it. In all those early years I never had much trouble producing skiers who could ski circles around most everyone on the hill. Yes, they would show unique individual bio-mechanical differences based on their bodies compensating for their structural uniqueness, but their technical execution would develop an highly refined form.

Now compared to other kids at the resort who had perfect natural alignment but didn't participate in my training program, my bio-mechanical misfits would consistently leave them in a skill deficient cloud of snow dust. What I'm saying is the best boot fit in the world won't help a skier move to the upper end of the performance ladder if that skier doesn't invest heavily in skill development and learn how to use that great fit to operate their skis. Yet someone with a bit of misalignment can get pretty dang high up that ladder if they pay their training dues and develop their skills. The best scenario for those with performance enhancement aspirations is to get a good fit from a real boot fitter,,, get good instruction,,, and train, train, train your a$$ off.

Finally, Little Tiger spoke about me, and how loose I ski my boots. It's true. I've been blessed with pretty good natural alignment, just a bit under canted, which could probably be corrected pretty easily if I'd break down and purchase even one of those generic foot beds that would prevent my foot from collapsing inward as is does now. But it's just not a big deal to me as my body has learned how to adapt to it very well. And the looseness thing carries a duo purpose. First, I'm into comfort. I like the warmth and all day comfort. But second, I want the space in my shell for my foot to expand and provide the balancing capabilities it innately possesses. I do not want to compromise my foots balancing potential one iota. I rather error on the side of too loose. As Little Tiger said, sometimes I will look down and notice a buckle has come undone, but it's had no impact on my skiing because my foot is operating at max functional capacity, and I'm in perfect through my foot balance as I ski. If I'm in balance, my skills are at their sharpest, and so is my skiing.

As far as the idea of cranking my boots so tight that my foot is compressed to the point that it hurts and possibly can't tension and expand as it needs to deliver it's best performance? No thanks, not for me. Hope this has been helpful.

RICK
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
FastMan, Clear, informative and to the point, Not a single "Disney" term spouted. Toofy Grin
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
little tiger wrote:

Reality is unless you are taking up SPEED skiing,
FASTER = need to be able to arc2arc.... (then if you want to race modern slalom better be able to do a nice pivot and reengagement too amongst other things)


I'd assumed that as SZK started the thread and given the customer base he has and his home turf the term "faster" was related to all aspects of skiing - moguls, crud, chutes, skinning uphill etc etc rather than an absolute against the clock measure. I may be wrong.

I have no doubt that if I wished to develop as a racing skier then coaching and lots of practice assuming a basically functional level of kit would be a better investment than buying the gear that Herman has every year. But it would take a hell of a lot of training for me to be able to ski a mogul field or heavy spring chop comfortably with my boots completely unclipped. For the record I regularly ski around with the toe clip unclipped mor eby accident than design.

If I'd been lucky enough as a kid to be in a ski club programme I have no doubt I'd be an exponentially better skier than the hacker I am today but then I've skied with people who have beautiful technique from their childhood days but who also aren't "that much into skiing anymore". I'd rather have a bit of passion about it and be untidy than be in that position.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
fatbob, The thread was intended to help newer skiers to understand the importance of boots and the quest for perfection. I have each year more boots than most would have in a life time. And have just finished setting up my new pair for next year. They are unbeliveably tight and having come from a Foam Inje Plug, that's hard to say. They are however comfortable all day, a bit tight in the toebox and yes i do unclip when not descending. My main problem is a low volume foot, not that i'm a W/C racer and having come from a climbing background i can say hand on heart, nothing comes close to the trade between comfort and performance in rock shoes. I have at home my First boots i had here, a pair of Atomic B100 27.5, SF Kork Vac and a ZipFit. They were tight, a revelation at the time. Now i have a Doberman Aggressor in 26, Firbreglass footbed and standard Kork liner, i doubt if i would have belived i could ski in them 7 seasons ago, but indeed i can and my feet haven't changed!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've skied with fatbob and he isn't, in any shape or form a 'hacker' on skis, so forgive his modesty....!!!!

Same time, same place next year, Big D...??? Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
SMALLZOOKEEPER, mate, I am afraid you are quite wrong. The zenith of skiing capability is to have exactly the right combination of citrus or fluo coloured ski equipment that doesn't quite match but doesn't clash.

I think Degree7 circa 1990 was probably the best commecial realisation. Now we just have to struggle along. Orange ski pants are a good start.

(Mammut I am afraid are trying too hard).
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

Orange ski pants are a good start


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

Orange ski pants are a good start.
with 'Brown' marks. wink
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