 Poster: A snowHead
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What are people's favourite off piste runs in the alps? I'm particularly interested in any 'secret spots' you may know of. Here's one I heard of the last time I was in Zermatt, I haven't done it yet but will do next time I'm there. It is one to do with a guide though...
If you've skied Cervinia you will have probably noticed the large cliffs on the right as you descend. There used to be a lift station on top of the cliffs (that can still be seen) that accessed a steep black. The run was accessed through some steps in the mountain. Its possible to access the lift station from the Zermatt side by going off piste towards the East face of the Matterhorn from the Furggsattel, avoiding the crevasses as you go! You then climb up some rocks to gain the cliff, and then walk through the abandoned station, a quick abseil later and you have some steep untracked slopes in front of the admiring crowds of Cervinia. I thought it sounded wonderful! Has anyone done it?
And here's one from Hinterglemm in Austria. This one is a bit easier! Take the Zwolferkogel gondola and then make your way over to the Seekar drag lift. Take this to the top; from there it’s a short hike (like 10 metres) to the ridge. This overlooks another valley that is completely uninhabited in the winter. Ski straight down, away from the lift directly; gentle slopes lead down through forests past snowed up farms to the bottom of the valley. Eventually you’ll hit a track in the forest; ski down this to the bridge over the river and follow the road all the way; this brings you out to the Glemm valley and the ski bus, ten minutes back to Hinterglemm, there’s even a hotel where the route ends for a celebratory beer! This route is not on difficult terrain (i.e. suitable for second week off pisters), but I’d only do it on clear days and make sure you let someone know where you are going. The slopes looked too shallow to be an avalanche risk, but obviously check at the lift station before you set off. Enjoy!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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lewis, I've mentioned Engelberg on another thread about photos. It has an exceptional off-piste slope called the Laub, which is about 1000m vertical, smooth and obstacle-free with a brilliant gradient for continuous powder turns.
Part of the reason it works is that you have to do a 5-minute hike above a lift to enter it, which keeps people away.
P.S. I wish I could remember the name of that abandoned lift station above Cervina you're talking about. I have a very vague memory that it was similar to Furgg and Furggsattel - possibly 'Furggen', but I'm probably wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This may be it, completed in 1953 as far as I can make out. I'm not sure.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think that was the name the guy mentioned. I'll see if I can dig something out
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| This may be it, completed in 1953 as far as I can make out. I'm not sure. |
That looks like what's there. But then it's likely to, I suppose.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Grand Vallon, at Val d'Isere, accessed from the Signal lift at Fornet and then skiing over the back is a huge area to explore after new snow. Or go to the very top of the Fornet area and, instead of traversing to the col Pers (Sp?) climb up to the left to the point Pers and over the top.
Or Mickey's Ears from Toviere go to the Pointe du Lavachet and walk alonk the ridge to the two broadcast dishes (the ears) and ski over the back, then a bit left, then down to Lavachet, or how about the Face du Charvet, or, if you really want to ski something steep with everyone watching try the Pisteurs Couloir: Over the back of Bellevarde to the Grand Pre lift, then climb up to the left and along the ridge. Then ski down facing Bellevarde (45deg. at the top!) You need a guide and its rather a walk but a bit of a thrill.
Or how about the North face of Bellecote at La Plagne. Go up as far as possible, traverse left , gaining a little height, then over the edge.
Or another steep one, the Helbronner (Italian side of Mont Blanc) starting to the left a little then crossing under the top cable car.
Or go up the La Moraine and Col lifts and climb up to the Aiguille de Peclet, the big peak above Val Thorens (quite a long climb). Its the big slope you see from the village but nobody skis. In good snow one of the best slopes in the Alps! (Absolutely must have a guide for all these three!)
Or the half-mile couloir at La Grave (I forget the name) that starts steeply just to the right of the cliffs a bit below the Refuge Chancel and then broadens a bit and just goes on and on, arriving at a hamlet about a mile down the road from La Grave.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 17-09-04 9:08; edited 6 times in total
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No contest, Val Mesdi in the Dolomites.
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I've never skied off piste in the Dolomites but will be doing so in January with Zeb Roche and 4 friends. (We'll be starting in Val Cenis, Zeb's home, for 2 days, then driving to the Dolomites in Zeb's minibus and skiing 2 days in Cortina, then 4 days skiing from Arraba, including a night in a hut).
I'm told the Dolomite off-piste is great and the Italians just don't ski it (so you can make fresh tracks long after the last snow). I'm really looking forward to it.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 17-09-04 10:09; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Looks like snowball beat me to it, but any Italian resort as they don't seem to go "off piste" very much?? Even small amounts inbetween runs will not get tracked out immediately. 
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I've never skied the Dolomoites either; I'm considering a weeks couloir skiing this season, I'm just worried about the snow - how bad or good is it? I know last year was a 'good un'.
On another matter, Super St Bernard is one of my favourite off piste spots in the Alps. Its only a short drive from Verbier / Martigny, but no-one seems to do it - which is a good thing I guess! I've had many days where we ski the 1000m vertical then jump straight on the lift, no stopping all day, I think we did twenty something runs one day, most of them freshies. Its got small couloirs, bowls, rocks, cornices, steeps, etc etc, and a good restaurant! Just drive up to theSt Bernard tunnel and pull off the road at the last moment.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sorry but I'm not going to spread the word on the off-piste runs in and around the Espace San Bernado. Daily Mail Ski Magazine did an article featuring this area and we don't want any more people pitching up, one of the runs, an off-piste intinery is rated as the 3rd best off-piste route in the world, I think the other 2 are in Alaska, it's 20kms long. So, unless you ply me with copious amounts of alcohol, my lips are sealed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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lewis, thanks for the Hinterglemm info. I'm there at Christmas and praying to the snow gods for lots of white stuff.
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| lewis wrote: |
I've never skied the Dolomoites either; I'm considering a weeks couloir skiing this season, I'm just worried about the snow - how bad or good is it? I know last year was a 'good un'.
On another matter, Super St Bernard is one of my favourite off piste spots in the Alps. Its only a short drive from Verbier / Martigny, but no-one seems to do it - |
The idea of starting in Val Cenis is that if the snow in the Dolomites is no good we will just stay in Val Cenis (easy to get beds there at that time and Zeb will book places he knows fairly last moment for the Dolomites) but Turin flights will be booked in either case.
If you ski tour around the Great St Bernard pass you can stay in the monastery in some of the 17th century monks dormatories (The monks run it as a refuge and the pass is closed most of the winter). Quite an experience.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dan wrote: |
| Looks like snowball beat me to it, but any Italian resort as they don't seem to go "off piste" very much?? Even small amounts inbetween runs will not get tracked out immediately. |
Yes, the majority of Italian skiers do not like off-piste skiing.
To this it contributes the "avalanche fear" that the media put into people every year.
It's also probably due to the fact that skiing on groomed is much more comfortable, so a lot stick to those, and don't even dare to ski beside that.
Another cause could be the resorts behaviour, two examples:
-A longtime ago, in Colfosco, there was a nice wood, with untracked snow, where we kids liked to enter and ski and jump into the groomed run.
Nothing big nor dangerous, but all of a sudden, one year, the woods were fended and entering was impossible.
-Again, there was anice offpist run, on top of the Forcelles chairlift, instead of taking the groomed, one had to turn right and ski the powder there, straight down and one would reach the top most of Colfosco vilage (where the Erlacher family runs an Hotel)
Well, a couple of years ago two young ones managed to get lost is such a simple run.
As a result now there is a nice sign readin access forbidden.
Strangely, Italians, who are notoriously ignoring rules, to comply with these...
Even the Val Mesdi' is publicized as "dangerous" and "difficult"...
Just read the sign posted at the top of the Pordoi Pass...
http://web.tiscali.it/pickelhaube/Warning.JPG
I've skied it, always with a guide, and greatly enjoyed it.
What is dangerous, it's the access to it, not the Valley per se.
Snowball, I'll be in Colfosco Jan 22-29...but I'll be skiing the groomed with my kids and family.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Matteo, nice sign  I've done the other two runs they mention as well.
The approach (walk-in may be a better term) to the Mesdi is serious though, we did it after a snowfall and the avalanche risk was slightly higher than I normally ski in, it was hard progress to the actual entry point and a bit intimidating. Breathtaking run though, the massive rock walls and, for us, a steep drop into deep fresh powder.
Just googled and found some more photos..
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wow, that couloir looks amazing!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ise imagine, my wife was pregnat of our fist son that year, I climb down the tram and read that....but I was young and ignored it...ehe.
Yes, it's the walk in that I fear more than the run itself. Our guides did change the path every visit, according to the meto condi and avalanches risks, that's why I hiured them, not to ski em dow the Valley, but to safely guide me to it.
Most of the accident that have given a bad reputation amongst locals to the Val mesdi' happened on the walk-in. And to unguided people.
Or maybe the locals do prefer to keep the secret for themselves...
Snowball
Yes, the couloir is nice, isn't it?
http://web.tiscali.it/pickelhaube/foto_12.jpg looking up
http://web.tiscali.it/pickelhaube/foto_13.jpg looking down
We skied it in five to ten cm of fine cold fresh snow on a firm base of old snow...
What the Americans call "Hero snow" I think.
A very nice day.
The first time I skied it, it was during a bad and cold weather February day.
That the local guides won't go in if there's not enough snow, too rocky they'd say.
I took those pictures 10 years ago.
Thanks, ise and snowball, for the memories you've unleashed.[/url]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Or the half-mile couloir at La Grave (I forget the name) that starts steeply just to the right of the cliffs a bit below the Refuge Chancel and then broadens a bit and just goes on and on, arriving at a hamlet about a mile down the road from La Grave.
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snowball, I think this is the Freaux Couloir. I notice you also forget to mention Victoria Couloir in Alagna in your selection 
One run that I would love to do in VDI is the North Face of the Pramecou- one of the must stunning north faces in the Espace Killy. I'll see if I can link a pic.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Matteo wrote: |
I took those pictures 10 years ago.
Thanks, ise and snowball, for the memories you've unleashed. |
not at all, thanks for the photos that's bought back some good memories for me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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davidof, how wide is that structure in the shade, third from summit skier's left?
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I rode that old cable car in Cervinia when it was functioning(probably over 20 years ago). I found the lift to be more daunting than the skiing. I recall the Val Mesdi as being steep but not of the sphincter-tightening variety. My most vivid memory of the Val Mesdi is nearly being taken out by some chap in a one piece suit (a.k.a. body bag) who fell near the top and did a slide for life for over half of the run. I pick up most of his gear which was strewn along the hill including one ski and handed it off to him when I skied by.
I'd rate the north face of the Bellecote as one of the very best off piste runs anywhere. I can't recall a skiing longer sustained steep run. Lots of nice long off piste runs on the Monte Rosa. To me, the best off piste is found at the not so famous areas that don't get the off piste traffic that you find at St. Anton, Chamonix, Verbier, Val d'Isere etc.
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Choucas, how right you are.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Any of you ever been to the Dammkar in Mittenwald? If you are ever in that area and have a day to spare then try it. If you get it on a good day then it is absolutely second to nothing. Get it on bad day and it's absolute misery! Once I did one run on it, went back to the ticket booth and said it was unskiable. They thought about it and then said OK, and gave me my money back! See http://www.dammkar.de/ (German only).
The only access to it is via the Karwendelbahn cablecar. Once you reach the top you then have to walk 400 meters through a tunnel to get to the start of the Dammkar itself. The area is billed as being 'Freeride', meaning there are no pistes, but that at least to some extent the area is checked for avalanches (although I nearly got taken out by one last year so be warned)! Follows 7Km of pretty amazing scenery and even more amazing powder!
Best of all, not many people know about it, so most days you won't see more than two or three other people there.
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| comprex wrote: |
| davidof, how wide is that structure in the shade, third from summit skier's left? |
Hmmm, not sure I can judge that. The slope, called the 'Y' somewhat originally, is about 350 vertical meters. You can ski as far as the Col on the left from the top of the lifts so it only needs about 25 meters uphill. I just find the perfectly flat farmland behind and then this mass of snow covered rock completely incongruous. I also liked the nice ski tracks we left.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Kit Wong wrote: |
| Quote: |
Or the half-mile couloir at La Grave (I forget the name) that starts steeply just to the right of the cliffs a bit below the Refuge Chancel and then broadens a bit and just goes on and on, arriving at a hamlet about a mile down the road from La Grave.
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snowball, I think this is the Freaux Couloir. I notice you also forget to mention Victoria Couloir in Alagna in your selection
One run that I would love to do in VDI is the North Face of the Pramecou- one of the must stunning north faces in the Espace Killy. I'll see if I can link a pic. |
Yes, Kit, I think it was Freaux.
I have skied the Pramecou north face with TopSki. That's a great descent too. Not often the right snow conditions to ski it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Here's a picture of us (I'm in red) at the top of Freaux - the drop in is a few metres to the left.
snowball, What did you think about Topski? I had an enjoyable time with them yet still have some doubts about them.
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The Laub, Engelberg. Just skied it down on Monday. After three days of snowing it was perfect ... i was in the first 20, so there was still plenty of room. About 1200 vertical meters tells it all. At the end my legs were done and i was ready to go home after a perfect run on heaven !)
+It's very easy to reach.
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof,
Great pic...you'd want a closer look at that.
There is a nice gully via Attaluce in Gressoney and Malfatta is ok.
I always like the gullies around the back of the hut on the VB. Look super steep from the ground and the ones of right -skiing down - as supposed to be the steepest.
The extreme left off the Laub looking down is steep as well..
As for the general question of best off-piste, its more a question of best snow IMO
Juge,
I don't know about this climb - mentioned above - into the Laub..its a traverse as far as I know...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes, it's a traverse and not even very long one (~200 metres directly from one lift). You can ofcourse climp 100 metres more, but who needs a couple of more metres when you have >2 kilometres ahead !)
by the way, if you are going to visit Engelberg remember to take a look at Brunni as well (specially when the is a low visibility at Titlis side). Great skiing in the woods and fields, just remember to check bus/train timetables&stops (we didn't !( it was a loooong walk to the nearest restaurant).
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FAQ
