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Transceivers again

 brian
brian
Guest
Having finally liberated some of my own money from HM Rev & Customs rolling eyes ....

I'm thinking of buying a transceiver etc.

So best deal I've found for xcvr/shovel/probe is €270 delivered for either BCA tracker or Ortovox d3. From what I've read both seem fine for ease of use, I'm edging towards the d3 as the 3rd antenna ought to make it more accurate.

Various shovels and probes available, advice on here seems to be go metal and long, so I'm opting for Black Diamond Lynx and Dynafit 2.6m probe.

Any thoughts anyone ?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I bought a transciever in Whistler just before Christmas. Only one or two shops there sell them, surprisingly. Every shop that I asked in pointed me in the direction of the other two, and recommended the (BCA) DTS tracker for ease of use, so that's what I bought.

Last time I was at Spyderjon's we played hide the trackers in his back garden. Even though I'd never used a transciever before in my life, it made multiple burials very easy indeed, and was very intuitive. It also seemed to have a decent range.

I've had a look at the Ortovox d3 as well, although I've not tried it out, and it just seems a little bit more complicated.

Overall, I would recommend the BCA tracker.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
brian,

Make sure it all fits in the pack..... a 2.6 mtr probe might not collapse well for say a 18-25 litre pack.
A D handle will be easier to use but if it is clear of the pack on the outside it is a bit more cumbersome and might smack you in the head
in a fall.

Ortovox do a good Pro Ali shovel which is compact and will go in a Orto crossrider 20 plus pack...the CArbon 2mtr probe is 33 collapsable so will ride outside in a designated pocket...as will the 43cms collapsable shovel. As for bleeps, depends on which one you like to use....simplicity over function would be my choice. I think the DTS tracker is quite simple but I use M2.

Finally, weight... so light weight shovel and probe although I'm not sure you'll notice the diff between ali or carbon probe.
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 brian
brian
Guest
Kramer, JT, thanks. That prompted a touch more googling. So this guy really slates the D3 (and X1):

http://www.beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specifications.htm

Tracker it is I think.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
brian,

Probably...they all seems to have issues...and the tracker's is the range...

I think I would be looking at the tracker if I was in the market, tho'
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
brian, I'm also Tracker fan but make sure you get the latest version that has the strap/harness clip on to D rings on the unit. I've got the original model with the seperate harness/holster which is cr@p in comparison to the new set-up.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
brian, i'd go somewhere which will let you try a few out around the shop. i'm a dissenting voice in that i have found trekkers to suck because of the short range
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
brian, Have you looked at the Mamut Pulse? I bought one this season and in the little experience I've had with it I did find it very easy to use (although as I've not used any other model my advice isn't of much value). Some comments about the Pulse from the snowHeads search and rescue exercise in Richmond Park Wink
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Arno, Interesting. I've had readings of over 50m on my DTS on a number of training exercises. The only time I have is when I haven't been 'sweeping' the unit & therefore didn't pick up the flux lines earlier enough.

For me the DTS is a wax a no-brainer as it was the only model I could easily read & use without my specs.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
spyderjon, but was it actually 50m or just what it said on the unit? i have found the two to be quite different (probably because the distance is along the flux line rather than as the crow flies). I also found the tracker to be a nightmare in multi-burial situations. This was a few years ago so they might have improved these aspects but it certainly put me off. OTOH, I don't think there is a more simple unit to use straight out of the box

I use an Ortovox F1. It is actually very easy to use and the audible bleeps are very helpful. The fact that you can turn it down to concentrate on a single signal is very good. My only concern (which is not negligible!) is that there are now reports of compatibility issues between analogue transceivers like the F1 and more modern digital units. I'm probably in the market for a new unit at some point because of this, but it's a real shame because I really like th F1 . The Barryvox is probably top of my list right now
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Arno wrote:
My only concern (which is not negligible!) is that there are now reports of compatibility issues between analogue transceivers like the F1 and more modern digital units.


Huh? All transceivers transmit the same signal. The signal is a 457khz transmission with a pulse of a defined duty cycle modulated onto it. The digital part of digital transceivers is in the signal processing not the signal. If there is a compatibility problem it is either because the transmitting unit is out of spec or the receiving unit is not working properly or poorly designed and would be just as likely to affect "digital" beacons as analogue beacons.

If you can cite some real examples I will take it up with the manufacturers.

[edit]
We are lucky that Microsoft don't make beacons. Everytime a new one was release it would be incompatible with all the old models.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 11-02-07 11:52; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Arno wrote:
...... I also found the tracker to be a nightmare in multi-burial situations.....


I don't know about the earlier models (mine's about 18 months old) but I find the multi-burial feature on the DTS very easy to use.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:
Arno wrote:
...... I also found the tracker to be a nightmare in multi-burial situations.....


I don't know about the earlier models (mine's about 18 months old) but I find the multi-burial feature on the DTS very easy to use.


Me too.

Perhaps we all need another snowHeads meet up?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Maybe I'm just an old sentimentalist but I would be upset to see a load of snowheads in a multiple burial Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
davidof, an email I received from an email group I am on. Hope the writer doesn't mind me quoting:

Quote:
Now that the first snow has fallen in the alps, I think I should mention
a slightly worrying article which appeared in DAV Panorama (journal of
the German Alpine Club) earlier in the year.

This article warned that some of the earlier analog avalanche rescue
transceivers (the Ortovox F2 was mentioned in particular) may not be
able to communicate with the latest digital models.

All transceivers (except the first generation of analogs) work at a
nominal frequency of 457 kHz. Digital models such as the Tracker or
Barryvox keep to this frequency very closely as they are crystal
controlled, but older analogues used ceramic filters which are less
exact and more liable to drift. Also, the receiving part of an analog is
more tolerant of frequency drift than digitals, which expect to 'hear'
an exact 457 kHz. Because of this problem, Pieps has issued a software
update to their digital transceiver to make it more received-frequency
tolerant.

What does this mean in practice? There should be no problem if those in
your group all have digital transceivers. But if some have analogs, a
test should be made to be sure they can all send and receive, at a fair
distance, to and from all digital transceivers in the group.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Arno wrote:
davidof, an email I received from an email group I am on. Hope the writer doesn't mind me quoting:

Quote:
Now that the first snow has fallen in the alps, I think I should mention
a slightly worrying article which appeared in DAV Panorama (journal of
the German Alpine Club) earlier in the year.

This article warned that some of the earlier analog avalanche rescue
transceivers (the Ortovox F2 was mentioned in particular) may not be
able to communicate with the latest digital models.

All transceivers (except the first generation of analogs) work at a
nominal frequency of 457 kHz. Digital models such as the Tracker or
Barryvox keep to this frequency very closely as they are crystal
controlled, but older analogues used ceramic filters which are less
exact and more liable to drift. Also, the receiving part of an analog is
more tolerant of frequency drift than digitals, which expect to 'hear'
an exact 457 kHz. Because of this problem, Pieps has issued a software
update to their digital transceiver to make it more received-frequency
tolerant.

What does this mean in practice? There should be no problem if those in
your group all have digital transceivers. But if some have analogs, a
test should be made to be sure they can all send and receive, at a fair
distance, to and from all digital transceivers in the group.


Thanks for that Arno. Frequency drift is an issue for crystal controlled beacons, especially older designs, the general rule is to get your beacon tested by a service center at least every five years. You should also make a range as well as a beacon test at the trailhead prior to a tour... many groups just check that their beacons are running but best practise is to distance yourself from the group, get someone to check your own beacon is working then make sure you can pick up each group member at say 15-20meters out.

I don't know the latest details of the Ortovox F1 but the ANENA found that it was susceptible to temperatures, particuarly low temperatures, that caused frequency drift, but this is a problem with Ortovox's design of the beacon at the time it was tested (and possibly today). Dropped or old beacons may also be transmitting off frequency.

http://www.bcaccess.com/documents/FreqDrift.pdf

Note BCA which says it is a design problem not releated to analogue versus digital technology[1] which is why your original post surprised me.

[1]except that many so called analogue beacons are old or use out of date designs
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