 Poster: A snowHead
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So last season I had a set of marker bindings that I had bent the brakes out on to clear my K2 Public Enemies. These brakes ended up getting really beat up from what I assumed was the adverse effects of bending them up, and eventually they just wouldn't hold together and kept getting mangled up on botched landings. So I changed over to a set of Rossignol Scratch 200 bindings with wide brakes. Problem solved... Until earlier this evening when I messed up a 180, my left ski popped off, the brake snapped in two, flew off the ski, and the ski proceeded to finish the run without me. Somehow I also get the feeling that the brake gets largely overlooked on ski binding designs, and getting top dollar bindings would still give me the same crappy brakes. Is it generally acceptable to do some type of a strap setup for skis not unlike snowblades as opposed to brakes? Any danger with this? And if so, where can I buy something that will bolt into place in place of the brake just so my boot is resting on something solid where the brake would normally go? I'm just tired of these stupid brakes self destructing on a rough landing and rendering my skis unusable, and then shelling out about $40 for a special order replacement brake that's just waiting to come apart on me again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sad, little man,
Replacement brakes ahould be free. I've had some Look one's snap (same as Rossi) and replacement bits were free.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, And imagine sliding feet first down a slope with a ski flailing on the end of a strap and then hooking itself onto something....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Whem I learnt to ski way back when, it was quite normal to have leashes to tie the skis to your legs, as ski brakes were a new invention and not everyone had them. Blimey I'm showing my age. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Sad, little man,
Replacement brakes ahould be free. I've had some Look one's snap (same as Rossi) and replacement bits were free. |
I'll assume that's with a receipt from the mounting? (Probably a year ago now.  ) And I can't believe you guys have never heard of ski straps like that. Like Spyderman says, from looking around on the internet, they were pretty much the way to keep your skis stopped if you fell back in the day, and to an extent I think still are when doing backcountry skiing. It's better than having these things snapping like twigs. I did some searching around the forum, and it seems like what does it are the fakie landings. When your ski pops off going backwards, especially if you've just hit the ground, the brake thrusts itself right into the snow, causing it to catch pretty violently and get damaged. I'm convinced that any replacement brake I put on can and will keep failing with the type of skiing I do.
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Sad, little man, I still have a scar line of 22 stitches on the back of my head and neck from where my RC 05s were strapped to my boots and windmilling around, so yes, you could say I have heard of ski straps like that.
Nice try at a troll.
'pretty violently' pshaw.
Going backwards or going forwards -does not matter- because the first task of the brake is to deploy with spring load into the snow.
If the snow is compliant enough for the brake to embed deeply then it is also compliant enough to reduce the "violence" of the deceleration.
If the snow is -not- compliant enough then the entire ski bounces up off the ground, again reducing the "violence" of the deceleration.
So, I'm betting that those wide brakes had quite a bit of free overhang over the edge, and that they hit something while your boot was still in them.
(Or whilst locked against each other during transport).
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Please, none of this let's call the new guy a troll. Yes, I've heard of those issues with ski straps, but didn't think they were all that common. I suppose I was wrong. Either way I guess I'll have to hunt down my receipt for the bindings if I want any warranty replacement brakes.
I really don't think there was any damage to the brakes prior to their failure. This isn't some freak occurrence. It happened with the original Marker brakes, it happened with the replacement Marker wide brakes I got for them, and now with these. Either I'm hitting my brakes on a lot of things that I don't notice while clipped in, or they just don't work right going backwards.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 31-01-07 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ok, maybe I'm wrong, but TGR was down.
If you do another home bend, don't go much beyond the waist width (4-5mm works), and leave the arms splayed outwards to fit against the sidecut. There is no reason to try for a factory-style 90 degree bend.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 31-01-07 14:59; edited 2 times in total
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Sad, little man, if you can't find the receipt, ask nicely in the shop, it often works wonders.
Welcome to snowHeads. 
I'm pretty sure that this isn't a trolling post.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kramer, ok I'm calmer now. If the submitted theory was correct, don't you think we'd hear sob stories about 'No Rossi Axials on Dendix!' or the like?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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comprex, I agree its unlikely to be the snow that's tearing the brake off, more likely some other factor.
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I still dunno. This happens on landing, so there's a ton of weight and momentum coming down on the ski. If the brake deploys soon enough after the landing, I could definitely see these problems happening just by the snow itself, and it is hard packed snow on jump landings after all. I mean, a brake is designed so it springs down towards the snow and drags along. But, turn the ski backwards, and instead of dragging along on top of the snow, you have the brake pole vaulting right into the snow, causing the brake to jam itself into the snow with a force that's only limited by the weight and momentum of everything moving along with the ski, and then getting ripped off by all that momentum. Now true, the brake should only deploy when the rider isn't attached to it, but say on landing the brake starts to deploy just enough to catch the snow while I'm still pushing it along with my body weight. Then all of a sudden it digs into the snow and gets ripped off just as my foot leaves the ski completely.
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You know it makes sense.
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That would make sense. BUT the brake isn't meant to deploy until your boot is out of the binding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The brake can't possibly even start to deploy with your foot still in the binding - and with the boot in the binding the brake is still over an inch above the base of the ski. And I honestly don't think anything but the hardest packed ice would be tough enough to rip the brake off - on snow it's just going to slice through the snow backwards virtually as easily as forwards with your weight on the ski. You sure you're not damaging them some other way? Maybe catching them on something else?
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Poster: A snowHead
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My Brakes on my 'Look' turntables, busted by the prongs digging into hard snow and not rotating when I put my boot in, causing the spring mechanism to snap. Resolved by now sliding the ski forward as I step in. They can be a bit delicate on jumps & get a bit bent.
I just went into a decent shop and they gave me a new brake out of the parts bin. No receipt & I did'nt buy them there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| petemillis wrote: |
| The brake can't possibly even start to deploy with your foot still in the binding - and with the boot in the binding the brake is still over an inch above the base of the ski. |
Unless the ski is edged. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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comprex, yep - so a wonkey backwards landing could see the brake pull into the snow. I suppose one additional problem with wider brakes or opening the brakes out more to fit wider skis is that the leverage on the brake mech itself is increased. And opening the brakes out more also causes more leverage on the bend.
Maybe Sad, little man, it might be worth thinking through some way in which the brake mech could be improved. One problem though is that if, for instance, one were to use a stronger metal, say titanium, for the brake arms instead of steel, then instead of the brake arm breaking something else will break. So then the brake mech itself would need to be made stronger - let's have some nice carbon fibre instead of plastic. But then of course there are then the costs involved. It's probably more economical to have some breakages rather than having massively expensive break proof brakes.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Shop where I got the bindings mounted was really good about it, immediately took the ski and gave me a repair ticket. So, for now everything is ok, but I'm still concerned about breaking more brakes. I might end up turning my DIN setting up a little. I was at 6 (I'm 150lbs) but as I remember when I landed my ski popped off even though I was still up and moving, I only fell a few feet later when I just couldn't keep my balance at that speed going backwards on one ski. Maybe 6.5-7 is in order, but I want to stay away from too high at the same time.
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FAQ
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