 Poster: A snowHead
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Do you think people rely on Sat Nav too much? I ask because my colleague was joining us in Les Arcs last Sat , driving from Geneva.
Arrived at the airport 7pm, hired car, plonked down the tomtom, called to say ETA 10:30pm , and set off following the course plotted for him.
Through the Mt Blanc tunnel and round the St Bernard Pass (? I think - anyway the one that is a run in Thuile / La Ros)
Which of course is closed from Oct - May.
On returning through said tunnel, possibly a wee bit miffed, was stopped by some very polite Gendarmerie, who explained that they had 5 radar guns / cameras in the tunnel. And whilst two pictures of him was probably OK, speeding past all 5 ("here, and here... and here again sir, and once more, and oh yes, this one too") meant something 'must be done'. "Large amounts of cash please".
Not carrying suitcases full of the folding stuff, meant a quick detour to Chamonix to visit an ATM and a return to tunnel, to exchange for paperwork being held hostage, and off once more. With tomTom off.
To be stopped in the next village and breathalysed... (sober as they come).
Arrived Les Arcs at 3.20am.
Oh how we laughed.
So, do you rely on atlas maps, SOs, local knowledge, Michelin Internet downloads, or the oh-so wonderful Sat Nav to get you to your chosen ski resort?
Eventually.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a tattered few years old Michelin Atlas. Always get everywhere, never got lost yet, though I also use michelin.fr for route advice and timings and find it excellent. A satnav which sends anyone from Geneva to Les Arcs via the Mont Blanc tunnel is a few megabytes short of a picnic. But surely nobody just switches these things on and sets off without even a glance at a map????
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd like a quid for everyone whose tried to take the St. Bernard Pass route in winter. 
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| Quote: |
| But surely nobody just switches these things on and sets off without even a glance at a map???? |
Apparently they do 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w,
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But surely nobody just switches these things on and sets off without even a glance at a map????
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my DH would if I let him have one - he loves the idea of them. Personally I don't think
a) the technology has been around long enough yet to be fool-proof - the above account would seem to concur here
b) that in France/Switzerland a satnav could beat me with my series of Michelin sheet maps. The only time it's ever failed was with a stupid diversion the French had laid on in that area between France and Basel that is not served by the autoroute - never in my life have I seen such a C*** A**** set of Diversion signs. The 'main' road - if you can call it that was just barricaded off, and a dreadful Diversion ran through the countryside on one side of the road when you went and through the countryside on the opposite side of the road when we came back. Leave it to the French to make a proverbial mess of the roads - I hate driving in France - every road seems to have about 3 different road numbering systems assigned to it, and the signing is hopeless, but me and my trusted sheet maps usually win through. Switzerland is positively civilised in comparison and is actually quite good to drive through.
It is worth noting that largely I NAVIGATE - I left DH to watch the signs for about 5 mins last year while I sorted out the kids and in the middle of 200 miles of straight down a single dual carriageway in that time he turns down a slip road and we head towards the Atlantic for about 80Km before there was an exit that we could turn round to back track. Due to the distances involved I do sometimes drive, but the whole time I'm paranoid that he will lose us 
I don't ever want satnav, but apparently they have threatened as a legal necessity for all people transporting livestock - which we sometimes do, so I don't know how long I can hold out.
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It isnt just Alpine passes that are closed in the Winter, we have a well signposted ford across the river near us that is only passable in the Summer.......the local farmer charges £20.00 to tow the Sat Nav junkies out in the winter 
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What's a Sat Nav - I've never even touched one. For me, it''s directions and maps all the way. I often use sun or moon in combination with my watch to make sure I'm going roughly in the right direction. I have been known to use the in-car compass as well. What I like is knowing that I'm not shafted if the Yanks decide to switch all the GPS sats off for some reason.
Megamum,
What's that then?
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| JimW wrote: |
Arrived Les Arcs at 3.20am.
Oh how we laughed.
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It's a good thing he took all the ribbing and the pointing out which bit of the snowy pistes he would have driven down in good spirits!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, ha ha, that's my OH all over!! I am a map junkie and tend to follow the progress of my route, as I go, to make sure I am on track whereas he will point us in the right direction and then tell me when we've gone 200miles past our turning - very annoying!!
I have a Sat Nav now but in central London it is pretty useless and is guaranteed to take you on the most congested routes. It's good for getting to the away footie matches though.
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I find SatNav extremely useful for finding my way to addresses in unfamiliar areas and also for getting directions while driving. However, I never rely on it totally for long journeys because, when it's set to find the fastest route, it always tries to use motorways. For example: Ipswich to Derby via A12, M25, M1 instead of A14, M1; or Besancon to Verbier via Bern.
When planning a long trip, I always check the route given by the SatNav with one obtained from ViaMichelin.com which I usually find to be excellent. If necessary, I then program the SatNav with intermediate destinations (waypoints) to force it to follow the Michelin route.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have it and use it, but I only rely on it for the last part of a journey.
Remember - it is a navigation aid.
It doesn't have a built in calendar to know what day it is.
It doesn't have updates of where the latest road works are.
...and if you have one built into a car, it will tell you that the highway code, etc takes precedence over its directions.
Sat Nav is like shaped skis. Some people use it well. Others prefer to stick to straight skis 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Had to drive over to Oxford the other week and my Satnav took me a route I have not been before but which seemed much better, so was happy to let it take me back the same way, which was fine until it froze on me at which point I realised I had no idea which way I was meant to be going ended up doing 40 miles further than I needed to after missing a junction on the M1 
When I read the instruction manual which was at home I found there was a reset hole in bottom of unit and all I need was a paperclip to reset it.
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pam w,
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A satnav which sends anyone from Geneva to Les Arcs via the Mont Blanc tunnel is a few megabytes short of a picnic.
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No it isn't , it's user error. It's like someone re-typing a paragraphi from one document to another without figuring out the copy & paste commands.
Megamum, re. (b), mine will beat anyone with a set of maps. With mine I can get from my front door to any address in 13 European countries. I don't need to worry about traffic jams or road closures because it figures all that out while I drive. Shortest, fastest, walking, scenic routes all taken care of.
boredsurfin, people that end up trying to navigate through fords in such circumstances are idiots.
Wear The Fox Hat, TomTom works out where roadworks and jams are when connection to your mobile 'phone and TomTom's subscription service.
Word.
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You know it makes sense.
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hyweljenkins,
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boredsurfin, people that end up trying to navigate through fords in such circumstances are idiots.
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For trying to go through or paying the farmer £25.00
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Through the Mt Blanc tunnel and round the St Bernard Pass (? I think - anyway the one that is a run in Thuile / La Ros)
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For obvious reasons i would say this particular Sat Nav is a lot smarter than some folks would suspect. It even recognises quality ski resorts
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| A satnav which sends anyone from Geneva to Les Arcs via the Mont Blanc tunnel is a few megabytes short of a picnic. |
It's the quickest route when the pass is open, although the sat.nav should warn you about the toll fees for going through the tunnel.
We've got built-in sat.nav in both cars and a portable TomTom for times when we rent cars and would like some navigation. I find them invaluable, especially when driving alone when map reading would be neither practical or safe. But I don't blindly follow their instructions or their route planning as I'm in charge of the car not it. The great thing about sat.navs is that if you (deliberately or otherwise) take a different route to the one it recommends it will simply recalculate the journey rather than shouting at you for being a know-it-all like some co-pilots I know! The sat.nav also has a volume control...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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No I detest the damn things! I still work from an AA 2004 Road Map and I always get to where im going without diverting through rivers etc!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Which Magazine of the UK recently found that, in some cases, paper maps were still superior to satnav (i.e. faster):
here
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin, both, but the farmer is a genius! I bet he loves nothing more than dragging some city schlicker's Audi A6 out of the river.
Nadenoodlee, what do you do if you have to drive in to cities or large towns? Do you have A-Z maps for each city?
I usually find that people that loathe sat-nav systems have either assumed that because the interface is easy to follow the usage of the devices requires no thought, or they've never really used them.
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Whitegold, good article. Extremely detailed.
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Am I Sat Nav junkie?---------sort of! I think they are a great tool provided that they are tempered with some common sense. I agree you have to be very careful relying on them for a long route - e.g driving to ADH on my own last year, Flossie ( the given name of our Sat Nav) tried very hard to persuade me to take a route around Paris which was not an idea that was supported by map reading, AA route or my own knowledge. However, when it came to taking me to the doorstep of my overnight stop and on another occasion a trip to Annemasse station both unknown and in the dark she was an absolute star!
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hyweljenkins, I go on via michelin for the detailed bits. Very easy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think that sat nav is quite good fun, but it has to be used with a map and common sense. It's rather like having access to via Michelin in the car. The OL is extremely suspicious of it, however; I think that she sees here traditional role of map reader being eroded. Many years of hard learned skills rendered worthless overnight.
If you're driving somewhere new and/or you're diverted off your planned route, it's v. helpful, especially if you're driving alone (or if the OL is snoring like a hog in the passenger seat, something the tiny little woman inside the sat nav never does).
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Only use Sat Nav for the final part of the journey, towns and city centre's. Reckon I know the majority of the arterial routes in the Uk well enough to manage the first part.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I like having it on for the whole journey, even if I know where I'm going so that I can see if I can beat the original arrival time it gives!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I guess it's similar to saying "Would you use a map and ignore the signposts?"
The only time I use a paper map now is to show someone where something is - for example when trying to show an American visitor where I live, relative to Stonehenge and Stratford.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Surely Sat Nav is useful for telling the AA exactly where you have broken down 
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You know it makes sense.
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Nadenoodlee, that's fine when you're able to get online. A couple of years ago we were touring Italy, deciding where to go for the night at lunchtime. Via Michelin would have been, in many cases, four hours away, whereas a quick look at the map to pick a region, and then on to TomTom to find a hotel and were were motoring.
I see that VM uses the same maps as TomTom.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Also use Tom Tom, or Tabatha as she is known to the kids, and think it (she) is great. Again use it to suplement own knowledge and map reading, but is great for finding hotels en route to skiing.
I also find it invaluable at weekend to find my away hockey matches
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Strangely I find myself in agreement with Whitegold - this is frightening - did I wake up this morning on the same planet?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's not just sat nav a couple of years ago the AA route service tries to send us over a closed pass (Galibier I think), our current car has sat nav installed, but if we're going somewhere with a hire car viamichelin is great, even if just to tell you where the fixed speed cameras are. Don't rely on the tomtom is the message I think.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Since I started this, I guess I should state my position - I find Sat Nav reliance scary - as a dedicated map reader ( be it atlas ormichelin downloads), with good spatial awareness (according to various friends & family anyway...) I can usualy reckon on finding my way back to a place without any guiding assistance after a single 'mapped' trip there, and with a time gap of up to 4 - 5 years (depending on signficance of road changes).
Basically if I have been there once, I would predict with a high degree of certainty that I could get there again at some stage in my life without a map (Due to low self esteem, will usually take one on a second trip, just in case, but beyond that, not necessary) Maybe it is a gift that I need to appreciate more.
Yet when I have used a Sat Nav (just the once), I could barely find my way home without it, despite it being only 10 miles away.
I was totally unaware of the relative postioning, the direction, or indeed the order of 'landmarks' - usual, instinctive things that I am sub-consiously gathering during a 'normal' driving or walking experience.
For the first time in a very long time I was actually lost.
And that loss of control worries me (more than it possibly should admittedly...). Maybe I should use one to help with the last 500 yds , or for finding hotels, as above, but as for 'journeys'? - nope, not for me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JimW, I completely agree. Coming back from our last trip to Serre Chevalier, we decided to take another route via Bourg en Bresse, which I did with the help of a very small book of Michelin maps (diary=sized and very useful), and my recollections of the autoroute signs on the journey down.
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| kevinrhead wrote: |
When I read the instruction manual which was at home I found there was a reset hole in bottom of unit and all I need was a paperclip to reset it. |
Sounds like a TomTom - that little gem about resetting definately not in my manual. Only found out about it by taking it by to the shop
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JimW, I have the same "gift" go once, can get there again. Could easily drive to Les Arcs without map or Sat Nav. However like my Tom Tom for 2 reasons - ETA and distance left, is great for planning stops and keeping the kids happy - working out an alternative quickly when road is closed etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| JimW, I completely agree. Coming back from our last trip to Serre Chevalier, we decided to take another route via Bourg en Bresse, which I did with the help of a very small book of Michelin maps (diary=sized and very useful), and my recollections of the autoroute signs on the journey down. |
Sorry, but I fail to see how having satnav stops you seeing and remembering road signs. Are you using the time normally spent reading maps to read the newspaper or something?
Satnav will hopefully be getting me to Predazzo in 10 days. I shall be taking the a road atlas and ViaMichelin directions too, just in case.
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| Boris wrote: |
| However like my Tom Tom for 2 reasons - ETA and distance left, is great for planning stops and keeping the kids happy |
Not just the kids, but if you are driving to see someone and you can phone them on the way to let them know when you'll get there.
| Boris wrote: |
| working out an alternative quickly when road is closed etc |
True, or when you have used your Nasal Direction Finder, and realised that perhaps you aren't where you thought you would be, so you need assistance to remind you of how to get to where you should be. (I've never been lost in my life, just not been quite where I expected...)
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FAQ
