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Toe edge / Heel edge

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque, rayscoops, thanks guys. Boarding in next couple of days. Looking forward to putting your tips into practice.

nessy, will have a look at the vid thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm going to retract my previous statement, I don't know whats happend to my riding in the year since my last trip but (and I can't really say this without it sounding a bit arrogant) last week I was flying, the board was doing exactly what I wanted: keeping an edge and carving beatifully; and the best part:



I now like moguls Shocked Shocked snowHead snowHead

They are so much fun on a board (providing they're the soft powdery sort not hard and icy) you can be so violent in your approach to them it's practically GBH! any skiers reading this will be pleased to note I no longer take the top of them but ride the troughs throwing more snow on top of the bumps. It's so much better than skiing, god I love boarding.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque

Do you think alternative method of learning be more difficult for beginners to learn anf if so do you think it could make more people give up a sport that has a steep learning curve as it is? I don't have any experience of learning any other way just that it was hard enough- I did learn with an instructor that couldn't speak a word of English though but just slapped his thigh like a hyperactive Tyrolean.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Nick'n'Kim There's nothing alternative in what I've written, I'll explain a bit more in pt.2.
What I will say is that for whatever reason, the majority of us are not taught basic skills . . . or for that matter basic hill safety . . . You can't ride one-footed to get on and off lifts by waving your arms around and pointing, all you do is twist your body out of a balanced position, twist the board flat on the snow and split yer *rse or lip open when you catch an edge in front of or in the path of everyone else. It's dangerous, stupid and far more likely to put off a beginner than anything else. It is the first skill we need to be safe and pain free to ourselves and others on the hill.

Also this thread is for beginners, what do they know of alternatives?

Do you not consider that the way you learned (just like me) was inefficient and in many ways counter productive to good, as we now understand it, riding technique?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Masque, Please don't think I was questioning your advice, I'm just wondering if I was given substandard tuition using dated techniques, or if this is a ploy used by board/ski schools to get the students turning early irrespective of poor technique either to boost confidence in the early stages or to allow the instructor to get the students (and himself!) up the hill quicker. Your advice on hill safety and basic techniques is also spot on.
Keep up the good work and I look forward to reading your next installment, hopefully explaining what "pedalling" and "torque" are in relation to boarding.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Nick'n'Kim Sorry I didn't mean to come across like an ****hole . . . though that is one of my better developed skills. Embarassed

I don't know why entry level snowboard instruction seems to be so rushed and haphazard in quality. Perhaps it's because it has often been seen as a second class sport and taught predominantly by skiers who just want the extra cash. This has to be changing in today's market but I often take a stalking interest in watching instructors taking out newbie classes . . . purely for prurient reasons . . . and 7 out of 9 that I've hung around to watch, start by getting people buckled in on both feet. No bindings check, stance instruction, balance tricks . . . just clip in and try to stand up! It's no wonder so many people get hurt or put off.

I really believe it's possible to teach someone to link fall line turns on a shallow pitch and ride the lifts in the first day and on the second to be able to link turns on an open green and slide a cat-track safely. Leave the bulldozing just as part of the stopping and control lesson and stop making it the first step on the piste.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
No offence taken, Masque, I just thought I'd not expressed myself clearly
After my first week boarding I couldn't do anything except feather and traverse
I picked up tips from this site and links from this site esp ABC of snowboarding. The following year I did exactly what you suggested, on barely a slope I started linking turns. I had never been shown to swing the back leg out to skid turns so I tended to try and carve turns but obviously with a proportion of unintended skid as I got onto steeper stuff so your theory obviously has merit.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
oops


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 16-02-07 10:22; edited 1 time in total
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque wrote:
I really believe it's possible to teach someone to link fall line turns on a shallow pitch and ride the lifts in the first day and on the second to be able to link turns on an open green and slide a cat-track safely. Leave the bulldozing just as part of the stopping and control lesson and stop making it the first step on the piste.


My first lesson was from a friend, mainly on a pale green nursery. 2 hours. He covered: Different boots, different bindings and angles, skating, riding pomma, fall line turns, riding chairlift.

He deliberately did not cover scraping forwards or backwards or falling leaf.

Thus, when I had my first instructed lesson I could ride off the chair and have a semblance of a turn so that by the end of 3 hours I had linked 4 or 5 turns. Perfect.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
BOOthy, I was also prone to throwing my upperbody weight around to get onto heal or toe edges. Rather than "the turn and point with your arm method" not favoured by Masque, try putting your hands on your hips and keeping your elbows in line with the nose and tail and then working slowly through your turns. This has the result of keeping your torso upright, which then means that you need to bend your knees into the turns more. It takes remarkably little effort to turn a snowboard, if you play around on the green runs just turning your head a little bit or shifting your weight from your front foot to your back foot, toe to heal, it is surprising how quickly the board will spin around. Also try and stay flexible and relaxed.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I just worked out my stance was too wide to really get proper flex and pressure in my front leg/knee, meant I was giving it a bit too much on my back leg in my toe to heel turns which I think was part of the reason for turning too much through the turn on to the heel. Reduced my stance width and hey presto I am riding straighter and rocking from toe to heel with ease. Very Happy
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rayscoops, told ya wink

I wish other people would spend more time on working out thier proper stance . . . they'd spend a lot less time on their butt.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Masque, actually my stance felt ok at the time but I was finding it hard to get my rear foot in to my flow binding whilst standing up, so I thought why not bring it in a bit. Also tweaks with the rear foot angle and just getting better on a board helped, but the narrower stance did reduce/omit my tendancy to lock the front knee on steeper slopes and also made my front foot 'softer' becasue of the better knee flex Very Happy The stance did instantly help things though and eased the pain I was experiencing in my front ancle/foot.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I have been trying just about everything suggested. I had a eureka moment when I gave up thinking of turning and instead started thinking more about what my feet were feeling.

Almost overnight I can make subtle pressure changes with my feet and my turns are now smooth, I have started to ride flat and I have even begun to think about turns when switch (OK, OK, but for me it's a quantum leap)

I can almost ride straight whilst on a small toe edge.

Here comes the "however" ....

Although my turns are much smoother, a heel-edge turn still results in too much a turn across the fall line. Feels like "any day now" though
snowHead Laughing snowHead
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
B00thy, a bit more front foot pressure resolved my similar problem, I was applying a bit more rear foot pressure than needed becasue of my stance, so really it was a bit more front foot in relation to back foot rather tha just extra front foot. or maybe it just 'clicked' Very Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rayscoops, I am not a techie when it comes to anything snow-equipment-wise. My set up is as it was when my bindings were screwed into the board at the shop (I think it's 15 and -5) and the width they recommended was adjusted by an instructor slightly.

But I return to St A on Tuesday and will try more front foot heel pressure ....
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
B00thy, i may see you there then, I am there from 5th to 10th, any recommendations for good routes and good beers?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yes rayscoops, happy to oblige. But the list is long and depends on conditions, what you like to get up to (park, jumps, off-piste etc.)

As for beers, there's loads a places, on the hill and off it. Lively, quiet, music etc

This thread not ideal for listing everything. Why don't you PM me?
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
B00thy, sure no probs I will PM, but no parks for me, piste and hopefully off piste
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