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Toe edge / Heel edge

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
now everyone has a fave way to turn, but whcih edge are you more comfy on..
i always prefered both turning onto the toe edge and being on the toe edge . you get a bit of extra leeway when its steep n bumpy as you can to an extent use your hips knees and ankles .. on the heel side any ankle flex is gone and i used to skip over the bumps a lot more.. a few adjustments to technique thks to a french guide we had, and of course putting some effing effort in i suddenly find the heel edge a lot more stable, and turning onto it in poor conditions a lot more reassuring..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've always find the toe edge easier, but I'm self taught. Really should get myself a lesson next time I go.
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Definately the toe edge for both, although I'm not unhappy going to the heel I do still struggle to go straight on the heel edge: I'm more likely to complete more of the turn and get back onto the toe edge quickly. Something I should work on I sppose.
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I'm the opposite - love my toe to heel turn, but keep making a mess of heel to toe edge turns!!!! which apparently is opposite to most people - no change there then!!!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
mountain mad, me too.
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mountain mad, not me, I love that rise out of the heelside into a hard drop forward onto my lead leg, driving the nose round. It's possible you're not getting your mass forward and low enough to really hook into the carve? Watch the boarder slalom racing.
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Toe
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
riding switch it's heel edge every time, Riding normal it's toe edge, get the big soul arch going Cool I have good technique switch for some reason and like carving switch, going regular it's a sloppy mess Laughing
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Im happiest on heel although my legs ache alot more! All that toe edge "open your knees" got the better of me
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Its toe edge for me, although I have found that catching an edge when on toe it alot more catastrophic than heel - probably as I don't have quite as much notice. Sad
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ronaldothefrog wrote:
Its toe edge for me, although I have found that catching an edge when on toe it alot more catastrophic than heel - probably as I don't have quite as much notice. Sad


ah but with catching the toe edge at least you see the ground coming, catching a heel edge, especially at speed is like being whiplashed in a car crash. If I had a choice I would catch my toe edge every time, not that I want to mind Laughing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Nadenoodlee, do what with your knees? Shocked
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Lizzard, exactly! Instructor speak!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Yup, it's not impossible to imagine an Instructor telling a chalet girl to "open the knees"

what it has to do with snowboarding is another matter entirely wink



___________________________
If life's a bed of roses . . . why is it full of modpoop? bloody ejit rule, booger'm
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
mountain mad wrote:
I'm the opposite - love my toe to heel turn, but keep making a mess of heel to toe edge turns!!!! which apparently is opposite to most people - no change there then!!!!!


same here
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Masque, a year ago i'g have said you were bang on the money, alas now I am a) tied to the bf and b) paying someone to teach me how to "open my knees" Puzzled
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Really you should only ever use your edges when braking, otherwise they shouldn't be skidding and the nose should always go first as you carve along the edge. A long traverse is always easier on the toe edge though.

I agree your knees should always be open wink
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mista wrote:
the nose should always go first as you carve along the edge.


Thats presuming the tail isn't going first.
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mista wrote:
A long traverse is always easier on the toe edge though.


Aaah traverses - the bane of my life (along with drag lifts)! Always helps to find a tame skier who can push / tow you along I reckon Laughing.

The burning in my calves after a long toe-edge traverse is horrible Mad
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ronaldothefrog, that's 'cos you're trying to stand on your toes to force the edge into the traverse . . . sag down vertically and rest your shins on the tongue of your boot and let them and your bindings do the work you're forcing your calves to do . . . you can hold a traverse for many minutes if you're relaxed.
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Masque, good advice - I'll try that.

I have to say that I don't feel very comfortable riding the board flat (I went AoT on a few traverses in Heavenly a couple of years back and it knocked my confidence a bit) so I think I over excentuate riding an edge along then, end up scrubbing off all my speed and either fall over, grind to a halt or get the dreaded burn....

I'm hoping that when I go to Arinsal in a few weeks, traverses will be at a minimum Very Happy
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ronaldothefrog, On the flats just keep your weight over your lead leg. Spending a couple of hours dicking around the baby slope with just one boot clipped in . . . and alternate them, will teach you an awful lot about where you need to put your mass into a board to keep it sliding flat and straight.
It's easy to imagine, think that your lead leg is a flagpole and your board is the flag, as long as your pole is pointing 'into the wind' (down the hill) the flag (board) will stream behind you. Of course if you lean back you are essentially trying to fly your flag into the wind and it will want to whip round . . . leading to face-plants, ruptured rectums etc.

If you really want to be clever, there are riders who can bimble down blues just standing unclipped on their bindings, but spend an hour or two just practicing and see how quite subtle differences in where you put forces into your board give you complete control.
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Arinsal has little in the way of traverses. over the hill in Pal is pretty flat and crap for Boarding IIRC
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Quote:

ronaldothefrog, that's 'cos you're trying to stand on your toes to force the edge into the traverse . . . sag down vertically and rest your shins on the tongue of your boot and let them and your bindings do the work you're forcing your calves to do . . . you can hold a traverse for many minutes if you're relaxed.

Thanks for that, Masque. Tried it out yesterday and it made a big difference.
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pam w, glad to help . . . send my teaching fee to admin wink
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Swirly wrote:
... I do still struggle to go straight on the heel edge: I'm more likely to complete more of the turn ...


Just arrived in this thread. I think I would be more comfortable on the heel edge if it wasn't for the fact that I always seem to turn too far and have trouble riding straight on the heel edge. Funnily enough I'm probably more adept at switch heel edge.

Masque, o font of knowledge, got any ideas to help Swirly and me?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
B00thy, Question . . . are you carving or scraping?

If you're carving a clean edge line and you're turning too far up the hill, release the carve earlier by bringing your weight off the heelside front edge and back to the centreline of the board. If you're washing out the back foot get your weight forward into the heelside front edge.

If you just want to traverse across the fall line on the heel edge it's balance man, keeping your hips down and the whole back edge engaged, moving your weight fore and aft along the board to hold a straight path.
this is different than pushing one leg or the other, it's about moving the point where your mass enters the board.

Think about it like this: You're sliding down a nice smooth slope, your weight's into your front leg and you're using your rear leg to whip the board from side to side to scrapie off speed while you're rocking your body front to back to avoid catching an edge . . . you've seen them, the nonchalant tossers that steam past you with a fag in one glove and a mobile in the other . . . all his weight is still into the front of the board and he's just twist steering.

, , , and compare him with the guy the guy that's low, focused, forward and rolling the board from edge to edge in clean sweeping arcs. He's moving his mass around and across the board to control, working with the board and not just pushing it around.

It's all about feel and understanding how the board reacts to your influence and your knowledge or skill in influencing the board . . . it's down to practice and good teachers . . . go book some lessons Cool
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Masque, I am up-unweighting and compressing to carve turns and succeed in gentle-ish terrain. My toe edge turns on steeper terrain are more carve than scrape. My heel edge turns however start well but the board keeps on scraping a turn until it is a traverse whereas I wish to stay closer to the fall line.

When on very steep hard terrain I revert to twisting the board by pushing round the tail but am slowly eradicating this, replacing this with a turn involving a compressed edge check and then a fast unweighted turn.

I have 1-2-1 lessons now and again and am improving just annoyed with over-doing heel edge turns and not being able to point the board down the fall line on my heels. Aaargh!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
B00thy, I do exactly the same thing on steep heelside unless I really concentrate. I'm getting my mass into the board's nose at the heelside leading edge at the start of the turn but I'm not getting low enough through the carve to keep the edge angle properly engaged, I'm straightening my legs a little and not staying loose and low enough, I make it worse by sometimes forgetting to pedal my rear foot and torque the board so when I move my weight back to load the tail it washes out.

When you're down in the carve and you centralise, strongly lift your toes on your rear foot, It keeps your nose edge engaged while you take your full pressure off it. remember that as you move back along the board toward the tail you have to stay low or drop lower to hold the edge. This should let you complete the carve right through to tail release, unweighting and the drop to toeside.

staying flexible the key and not fighting the board, And I need to keep practising it too. Embarassed


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 9-02-07 22:55; edited 1 time in total
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At first reading I think I understand at least some of what you say. I will re-read and try to put at least some of this into practice.

Sounds easy Sad

Thanks Masque wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
B00thy, scruffy pic, but I tend to go into the bottom stance rather than the top so I lose control and the edge. If I concentrate I can hold it but it's not yet habitual or completely natural feeling. It's just practice and confidence. This is on real steeps.



edit: The problem I find, is that as I ride duck, the lower I go the less my highbacks can be pressured so I straighten my legs to leaver the board to a sharper angle. It's then when things get out of hand. By lifting my toes, especially my rear foot I can hold a good edge angle and stay low. The alternative is to wind my highbacks into a tighter forward lean. More practice and experimentation as I'm pretty sure this is a lack of confidence problem as I hate sliding on my ass - broke it badly once and its screws with my mind.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 10-02-07 8:02; edited 1 time in total
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Human bulldozers
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Frosty the Snowman, The one at the top is looking where it's going Evil or Very Mad Some of us can carve a better line than you plankers Confused
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Masque, the bottom one is where I find myself when is steep and hard. The key thing for me as that I haven't used my legs much - I've initiated my turn by unweighting but because of the steepness my legs 'freeze' and do not compress on the turn. I think the head is in the 'frozen' same state.


Frosty the Snowman, speaking as a skier of a reasonable standard I would say that a larger percentage of the good boarders carve steeper slopes that the good skiers. I am trying to add myself to the list of good boarders. If you have any objections please PM
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B00thy, same problem here, coming of toe edge on to heel but continuing on to bit of a heel traverse rather than a nice heel edge before turning back to toe.

I found the following helped

1 start your turn/lean back onto the toe edge as soon as possible after you have changed on to your heel, easier said than done otherwise you would not have the problem, but really try and concentrate on getting back on to the toe edge asap and bit by bit the turn will straighten out. Obviously all the front pressure etc. needed for the turn goes with out saying, just get it all going earlier

2 I tended to swivel my body in to the turn which exagerates the momentum on to the heel side, so keeping you front shoulder in the same line of the board helps (rather than opening your body), but i found that keeping my rear shoulder in line with the board helped more, even turning the palm of your rear hand backwards (facing the heel) helps keep the shoulder back and body in line with the board, this helped with achieving a smoothe carve back on to the toe edge (this was a tip i had from an old sage boarder)
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rayscoops, Thanks.

1 describes quick turns which is less of a problem for me. Perhaps I will practice lots of quick turns.

2 reminded me that I have a photo sent to me of me on the heel edge and my torso facing the front of the board with both my arms wide. So I will try concentrating on my torso position using your tip.
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B00thy, the body twist was the biggest thing that was spinning the board around on to the heel for me. I think it is the need to see where you are going (on your toes it works in reverse because you naturally want to look where you are going which helps keep your shoulders in line with your board, hence a nice carve) which twists the body in to the open stance. I now try to turn my head not my shoulder and any trick that keeps the shoulders in line with the board helps me, front hand palm facing to the toe edge, back hand palm facing to the heel edge, but whatever lights your candle really !!
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B00thy, I have a wayward right arm that 'cos my shoulder's only attached at two points rather than three so I grab the hem of my jacket. Makes me look a bit of a 'teapot' but it works. When you first described your prob, I assumed you were keeping your shoulders in line with the board. rayscoops, is spot on, body-twist has a huge influence on washing out the heelside carve and that's why I hate the 'turn and point with your arm' method of teaching beginners. I went through it and it's taken years to get out of the bloody habit and not always successfully. Embarassed

edit to make some sense:


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Sat 10-02-07 11:09; edited 1 time in total
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Masque, exactly, I was initially told to turn my body and the board will follow, but the board actually never stopped and kept going, I used to initialte the turn with a twist of my body, fatal !, now I try to initiate the turn with feet pressure to change edge (sort of McNab), so anything that keeps my body 'aligned' with the board rather than 'open' to the board is good by me. even the trusted old teapot stance wink
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You can get a good online explanation of the Swiss rotational "push-pull style (with videos) at
"http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html

Not just for carved turns.
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