 Poster: A snowHead
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As above really. Specifically, what makes a ski hold an edge well on ice. I've been skiing for about 17 years, but never more than one week a year and have mainly skied on hire skis. Some skis would be better on ice than others, but up until this year i've never owned my own skis. I've now got a set of 1080's after i borrowed a friend's for the last two years and loved them, but i've not really got anything to compare them to back to back.
So on a scale of 1-10 in terms of how well they hold an edge on ice, where would my 1080's sit?
I'm looking to get a set of skis for my fiance, who is on her 4th week of skiing and a solid blue and red run cruiser. K2 True Luv's and One Luv's are in the frame, so where would they sit on the scale of 1-1o in terms of how well they hold an edge on ice?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sharp edges and good technique. The type of ski is less important.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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lower, Which 1080s have you got? The ones I owned (silver 171s from 03/04) were less stiff than the 1080 Foil skis that I hired in March 06. The 1080 Foil's extra stiffness makes them feel more sure footed on the edge on ice. the earlier 1080s were much easier to over-power. Don't know where I'd rate them on 1-10 - probably only 4 for the earlier 1080s and 5 for the 1080 Foil compared with a stiffer GS ski. But they were ok to ski on the ice so long as I treated them gently.
And yeah - good edges come into it. As does staying off the tails....
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 30-01-07 11:20; edited 1 time in total
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Good torsional stiffness and a stiff flex. Edge sharpness goes without saying. Increased side-edge angle (eg 4 deg) also helps.
I don't know much about 1080s, but I'd guess they'd be way too soft to hold well on ice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Sharp edges and good technique. The type of ski is less important. |
Spot on.
The difference between poor and good technique is massive on ice. There is no point in having sharp edges if you do not have the ski cranked over and running on its edge - and that needs technique.
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relatively straight sidecut helps too
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Most important is good technique, and sharp edges. Ice is a great opportunity to improve your technique, because edge control is vital.
Theoretically you want a ski that is relatively narrow underfoot, and that is stiff both in flex and torsionally, because it'll make it easier to hold an edge in those conditions, something like a race ski.
However some skis which shouldn't be good in those conditions, such as Scott Missions (90mm underfoot, quite soft flexing when tested by hand, however don't feel quite the same when they're on your feet) are.
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| petemillis wrote: |
lower, Which 1080s have you got? The ones I owned (silver 171s from 03/04) were less stiff than the 1080 Foil skis that I hired in March 06. The 1080 Foil's extra stiffness makes them feel more sure footed on the edge on ice. the earlier 1080s were much easier to over-power. Don't know where I'd rate them on 1-10 - probably only 4 for the earlier 1080s and 5 for the 1080 Foil compared with a stiffer GS ski. But they were ok to ski on the ice so long as I treated them gently.
And yeah - good edges come into it. As does staying off the tails.... |
My 1080's are of 2002 vintage, an ebay bargain.
I've heard people talking about overpowering skis. What does that mean?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On the Les Deux Alpes glacier in November, we really got to know how skis got on with ice.
Of all the ones I tried, the Scott Mission held its edge the best.
Of course, how u ski is the most important factor so perhaps the Missions just compensated for my own personal faults but there was a very strong concurrence of opinion around these skis.
If you want something to compare against, I'd track a pair of these down and hire/borrow/test them for a couple of hours the next time you have the apropriate conditions.
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admin, Will we see some pocket rockets for sale on Ebay shortly?
EDIT: I presume you were not skiing the missions when you ended up 20yrds off the edge of the "piste" at the bottom of the snowpark, having failed to find an edge 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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lower, my girlfriend is the proud owner of the K2 Tru Luvs. Whilst I can't personally comment on how they compare to other skis with regards edge-hold on ice, they've certainly had a very positive effect of her technique. In particular, her skidded turns developed into more carved ones, which certainly helps on the icy patches.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The total package determines how well one rides on ice.
Human + equipment.
Good technique, good stance, good balance, confidence, relaxed manner, powerful upper and lower body -- all are important for the skier.
Sharp edges, angled edges, stiff design -- all are important for the ski.
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I can't say I ever had a problem with my 1080s on ice.............
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You know it makes sense.
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Whitegold,
...and the ability to spoof it.
The easiest way to ski ice is simply to make it look as though you are holding a vicious grip with your skis while happily sideslipping down.
Means you can get away with any kit and no edges and not have to worry (unless there's a hard object in front of you).
I'm afraid to admit I do it all the time...
"All" your weight on your downhill ski helps too...(although advanced spoofing allows for all your weight on your uphill ski while looking as though it's all on your downhill ski while sideslipping happily along and looking as though you're holding the ice with a vicious grip, etc.)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Whitegold,
...and the ability to spoof it.
The easiest way to ski ice is simply to make it look as though you are holding a vicious grip with your skis while happily sideslipping down.
Means you can get away with any kit and no edges and not have to worry (unless there's a hard object in front of you).
I'm afraid to admit I do it all the time...
"All" your weight on your downhill ski helps too...(although advanced spoofing allows for all your weight on your uphill ski while looking as though it's all on your downhill ski while sideslipping happily along and looking as though you're holding the ice with a vicious grip, etc.) |
Whilst smiling and claiming to love it when it's icy as it makes it faster. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Follow the fall line over the ice and you never need worry about trivial matters such as edges and technique
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| lower wrote: |
I've heard people talking about overpowering skis. What does that mean? |
a) The edge set fails at the edge as the ski bends crosswise.
Might happen when
- skier too heavy for ski
- requested turn too sharp
b) The ski decambers along its length too much to hold a consistent arc (i.e. it bends underfoot too much for the tips and tails to feel it).
Might happen when
- skier too heavy for ski
- skier makes turn at higher speed than intended
- internal ski materials break down (you did remember to glue the screws in, eh?)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's a complete education to see what all you folks write. I'd appreciate it if someone could fish my 'idle curiosity' thread out of this forum and have a look at my comment on radius.
Now you introduce the concept that people can be too heavy for ski's - amazing. Is this because of the 'put the ski on its edge and stand on it to make it flex' thing (see nothing wrong with my memory)? i.e Someone that is too heavy for a very flexible ski could make it flex too much? So a heavier person needs a less flexible ski?
Also I've been interested in the comments in a couple of recent threads about edges and how they can vary - in my naivety I just assumed that edges of skis were at a square 90 degrees to the base and top, i.e. like 3 sides of a square box in cross section. comprex, you used the term 'edge set failing' did you mean that the edge of a ski is physically worn away?
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No.
The "edge set" is a noun I use for convenience to describe the arrangement of an edge that has been tipped and pressured into the surface.
The box itself bends away from the surface.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex, Sorry, completely baffled here  If it's not worth me knowing then don't worry. Maybe there is a web site somewhere that has some cross section diagrams that might help me understand?
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Megamum, Look here and scroll down the page a bit and you will see cross sections that show how skis edges can be bevelled. Atomic skis, for example, have a base bevel of 1 Degree and a side bevel of 3 degrees.
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Sage, That's exactly what I had in mind thanks. As Spock would say 'fascinating' I'm going to have a real good look at my ski's this year and see what I recognise from all the things I've learned about them. The bit about detuning was interesting. It implied that if the skis are held bases together that as well as the tips bending away from each other the back ends of the skis would also bend away from each other - I've never noticed this - another thing to look out for. Maybe my friends will let me have a look at their own skis too then I'd have a comparison which would help.
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Megamum, The part about de-tuning is a bit dated. Most relatively short modern skis don't really need de-tuning at all and it may even affect their carving performance, especially de-tuning the tails. De-tuning was more relevant to long straight skis of 10 years ago. A better approach if they feel a bit too grabby is to slightly increase the base edge bevel near the tip and tail. Then they still bite and carve with a sharp edge, but only after you roll them slightly further on edge.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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uktrailmonster, Ahh...I see...Noted, thanks. The way I see it I might as well learn about these things as not. However, I am surprised that such small differences makes such a difference to the skiing, but the way it has been described above in relation to ice suggests that it is, indeed, more than noticeable.
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| comprex wrote: |
No.
The "edge set" is a noun I use for convenience to describe the arrangement of an edge that has been tipped and pressured into the surface.
The box itself bends away from the surface. |
meaning that the ski is actually bending in cross section as well as along its length?
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FAQ
