 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so I class myself fair and square as a 'beginner'. However, I see lots of tems bandied round, i.e. 'intermediate', 'expert' etc. these are often applied to boots, ski's etc. Are these arbitary self assigned competence boundaries or is there actually a grading system - say within ski schools that differentiates different levels, or is it down to the type of slope that you can ski? etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't "class" myself as anything - I leave that for others to determine. I know loads of skiers that think they're great, but when I watch them I just hope and pray that I'm not as bad as they appear to be.
That said, I did come third in the slalom in Norquay last season, beaten by racers by 0.5 and 0.3 seconds, both instructors. It took less than 15 seconds, so it's not quite on the World Cup circuit!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hyweljenkins, can't help asking how many were there in the race? Statistics are no good without the facts - third out of three is as good as last  (Please believe that I am only pulling your leg!!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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comprex, I thang Q 
Megamum, hot potato! Also try here and this. See you in a month or so!
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Megamum, the Snowlife awards are, actually, remarkably good and relevant.
Click on that web site, however, and you'll not find the rating scale or criteria anywhere...
...such is the state of British snowsports that they can't even publish objective criteria...
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Megamum, that's a good point re. the number of competitors. I reckon there were about 50. It was the "end of ski school" race. I was in group 5 (group one being beginners, 7 being "advanced) and raced against a fifteen year old called Jack. He was a really nice lad and a lovely skier but just didn't have 185cm skis and 14 stone on top of them! The fastest entrants from groups 6 and 7 finished about three seconds behind me, and about 2.5 seconds behind Jack Mind you, from what I saw they were the typical "all the gear, no idea" sorts!
Are statistics any good with the facts? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks all, I'll have a look at the threads tomorrow lunchtime. Time for bed now as Zebedee would say.
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slikedges, Hot potato - yes, I see!
I have been reading up on the subject threads as folks here indicated. I am surprised that there is not a unified grading system, but there was no mention of one in the threads. I will confess to not having read every page comprehensively, but I have scan-read every single page and fully read what seemed most relevant. I certainly don't want to open any form of further debate on ths issue, but though I would let you know my personal opinion on what I read in case anyone is interested (Oh, yes, and it will prove I did actually read things!!)
The result of my review:
At my level of experience (not huge as you all know) I decided that if someone were to ask me how I skied, say for the purpose of hiring gear or buying boots that whatever I used as a scale/measure would have to meaningful to the person I was asking and ALSO meaningful to me. As some people mentioned, with todays technologies I think you would not better carrying a DVD with a short video clip on it, or posting something on UTube which could be viewed on the shops internet PC - I would not have a problem with this, although it might hold the queue up!! So although the Brits are good at queuing I considered something that was quickly descriptive. Out of all I read I decided that classifications which relied on descriptions of runs weren't wholey suitable as I have read that there is no unified system of grading the runs either? So you could be skiing blacks in one place that were as difficult as reds in others. Also, many of the descriptions had terms in them that I didn't fully understand, i.e. linked turns (I'm assuming these are turns which follow each other without a bit of staight skiing in the middle?) and I still haven't quite got to the bottom of exactly what these stem turns are. So for my use any system employing either of these wasn't very meaningful to me.
However, despite having the odd huge jump between levels the system I liked most at my level was Smallzookeepers method. This was because I more or less understood all the categories (though it still mentioned those linked turns), and could see it being applicable at any resort. Unlike many people responding to it I would truthfully describe myself as level 2 and would and will tell this years hire shop that I had skied a few times and was not confident with the altitude/danger. The only thing I might do with it is to lose the tags - beginner, intermediate, advanced etc. which probably just play to folks egos, but I did like the general descriptions and could fully recognise myself in them. So given this, did the shop sell me the correct boots?  and if I tell my hire shop this, will they be able to supply the right skis when I go?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 11-01-09 14:28; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, I think a good question to ask is the number of weeks a person has been on snow. This should give a reasonable guide to a persons ability so that a shop can supply the correct equipment.
Stem turns are where the skis form a stem (pizza, wedge, snowplow) at the initiation of the turn as apposed to a completely parallel turn.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sage,
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Stem turns are where the skis form a stem (pizza, wedge, snowplow) at the initiation of the turn as apposed to a completely parallel turn.
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Ah..Ha....I can imagine it from that description.....I'm sure that's what I do. Thought so........so somewhere between SZK 2 & 3, still not confident with the altitude & danger, but prepared to have an afternoon practising without the instructor on known territory, and doing mostly stem turns with the odd true parallel turn appearing when I relax and stop concentrating!!
I must admit one of the threads threw in the old management speak, unconcious incompetence, concious incompetence, concious competence, and unconcious competence. If you look at my ski profile you will see I put in this years goal as unconcious competence. This goes alongside the parallel turns that appear when I stop concentrating. I think the four terms are applicable to skiing, but apply to the individual level that you wish to attain. With me this year it's to tackle an easy blue slope in my resort neatly and competently without having to think to much so that I can actually enjoy doing it. At the moment I'm somewhere between the 2nd, 3rd and 4th terms, i.e. I know when I'm getting it wrong, but sometimes can get it right and occasionally without thinking!! I suppose its just another way of looking at things.
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Megamum, According to your video you are a snowplough turner. Beginners are people who have never skied. (Causes all sorts of problems). You may have improved since then going to the plastic slope. From the point of view of the shop you should say that you have skied a few days. However you should insist on short skis (many shops try to give out longer skis than are necessary). Shoulder (end of) height is ample. 
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