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Val D'Isere Piste Rating

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm off to Val D in March and was doing some reading up. I read on the Ski Club of GB website that the pistes were under rated (i.e. a blue is more like a red, etc).

Is that actually the case? Or is a blue really a blue?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is one particular "green" run that jumps to mind that would be a red in a lot of other resorts. Generally as resorts go, Val d'Isere and Tignes tend to be at the harder end of the scale. Some of their blues would also be reds, and some of their reds would be blacks in other places IMO. This is not to say that I don't like the resort, I do, I think that the skiing is world class, it's just not that suitable for tentative second weekers.
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That's a bit of a sod as I'm a tentative boarder with a couple of weeks (total; spread across 4 trips).

I was really hoping that the blues above La Fornet, off the Vallon de L'Iseran gondola, would be a nice little play ground for me to get my confidence with turns.

Anyone have any info on the blue like that goes all the way back to La Fornet (called "mangard", I think)?

Still looking forward to going though Smile Maybe I just need the challenge of something more difficult snowHead
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It maybe a France thing.... With it being Val D'ispair, they may have a slope attitude issue! wink I found difference in ratings across europe.

Austria tends to side on the upper rating , where France the lower element. Also many runs can vary along their length, even over a days usage. So it depends on many factors. Chill out, deal with what you find on the day! If you are in your comfort zone, maybe the next level is required!
Good luck!
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Most of the blues are proper blues and the le Fornet ones are fine. There are, however, one or two of the return runs to the Valley (particularly the blue to La Daille which has tough section at the bottom) which might give you a surprise.
In general Val d'Isere is a bit short of good black runs but the off-piste is magnificent - and, when you feel up to trying it, much of it is not difficult (though some is very difficult).
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m00958,
I wouldn't worry to much. IMO the main thing that gives Val d'I its reputation as difficult are the runs back to the resort none of which are particularly easy. Many of the high runs in all the sectors are ideal for confidence building and if going in March may well have better snow than you will find in a lot of places with 'Better easy skiing'.

Long time since I have done Mangard from memory it is a genuine blue but contains quite a few flattish paths which may not be that appealing on a board.
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there are some good areas of cruisy runs up the mountain, but my own advice would be to download in a lift. There's skiing for all in Val D'Isere, and it's only the guys who insist on getting down on their feet, but who are not too confident, who suffer (especially when the snow is a bit worn, as some of the runs get crowded and icy). There's the infamous "green" (ha ha) down to La Daille which is often icy, mogully and crowded, which is partly responsible for the overgrading reputation. Just give it a miss. I am a fairly competent and confident skier but I found that at the end of a long day, and extremely crowded, that piste needed all my concentration. If I'd been on my snowboard I'd have taken it off and walked. Anyway, you need a bus back up to the main part of Val D'Isere from la Daille. Forget "Le Face", too, especially if worn; no point scaring yourself to death. My son spent the winter there last year and as a very good skier and fast improving boarder he enjoyed Le Face, but didn't bother with it except in fresh snow. There's a lot of macho nonsense about skiing down - just sit in the gondola and enjoy watching the others suffer! There are some quite long flattish runs which I enjoyed with my son last year, in a schuss on skis, but as a shaky boarder would have hated. You'll soon find out which areas are the best, there'll be lots of advice available and the snow should be great. There are some very good lessons available in Val d'Isere, too. One thing I noticed about the place, being used to quieter, unheard of, French resorts is the absurd prices in the mountain restaurants. A beer and a plate of chips seemed to cost a lot. Even in a quiet off-season week the place seemed busy, too, compared to what I am used to. But the fast lifts and huge variety of pistes is what you go for, not bargain cuisine!
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pam w,
I agree about the prices on the mountian but in the resort there is plenty of competition and you can eat at a reasonable price, if not quite as cheaply as elsewhere.

Personally I think the main problem with the reun to La Daille is not that it is terribly undergraded by gradient I think a blue would be reasonable. The problem is that it is the easiest way to the resort and marked as such so everyone takes it. In what is a busy resort it gets scraped back to an icy base with granular mounds all over the place. This compounded with the crowds makes it pretty unpleasant. If you can get it at the beginning of the day with fresh snow it is an attractive and reasonably straightforward run.
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m00958, I think Val D marks the runs similarly to here which is a bit tougher than most. Many resorts mark their runs (apparently) to flatter the skiers! However, if you read the map legend here you see: green = easy; blue = middling; red=difficult; black = very difficult. I think that's fair, and I've always found Val to be similar. Once you get up on Solaise or Belvarde though there's miles and miles of easy (boring) cruises! Very Happy
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Thanks everyone for the advice. Put my mind at rest snowHead

Don't think I'll be coming down the green run in La Daille as we're staying in La Fornet, and that sounds like a bit of bonus Smile Although the thought of flat sections coming back down to La Fornet makes me shudder (memories of Saalbach and some nasty flat blues Crying or Very sad)
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I was told by a bloke from Evolution 2 in Tignes (and it was confirmed by someone on this very forum!) that Vd'I grades by average gradient, so you can finsd almoat anything on almost any run. Sounds barmy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
How do other resorts do it then? Grade it by the most difficult part?
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m00958, Toofy Grin
Chamonix is a very modest resort, our blacks are like most resorts greens. Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
There's a steepish section of the Mangard just below the top of the cable car that has a sharp right-hander at the bottom. If the conditions are a bit icy, it can be a little hairy getting the turn in. One of our party last year didn't make it and careened under the fencing at the bottom and over the edge. Fortunately the snow was deep and broke her fall, otherwise it would have been very nasty. She still had to be stretchered off though Sad

There's some nice easy flat stuff further up and, as others have said, there's no shame it taking a lift back down at the end of the day. The same goes if you stay in Tignes le Lac. Coming back from Val d'Isere you have to come down the Trolles black run, and at the end of the day that's carnage.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
m00958,
Try the runs in the Solaise area (linked to Fornet area) - genuine greens, blues etc.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mangard is OK IMV, the only prob being that at the end there is a long flattish bit followed by an uphill - not good for boarders Mad .
My boys and I play a version of chicken schussing from as high as we dare to avoid walking up as much the uphill as we can. Dad usually loses Confused .
The blues in Vallon d'Iseran and underneath the Glacier Express lift are generally without any major difficulties.
If you do start wandering over towards Tignes, be aware that part of the blue Santons (the way back) very definitely isn't (blue that is) especially if the snow conditions are in any way less then perfect as it tends to be very crowded and get very cut up. The lower half, however, is another schuss on which we play "chicken" as there is a fare bit of poling to do as a skier - and would be tedious in the extreme as a boarder.

The greens down from the Col de Fresse are definitely worth a play with if you do get over that far.

I'm certain that you will find plenty of slopes to play with.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Most French resorts like to have a percentage of Green, Blue, Red and Black runs. So they just divide up the slopes they have between the different gradings. In general France is a lot more difficult than Austria or Italy, at least from my experience.
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richmond wrote:
I was told by a bloke from Evolution 2 in Tignes (and it was confirmed by someone on this very forum!) that Vd'I grades by average gradient, so you can finsd almoat anything on almost any run. Sounds barmy.


We do too! And yes - some resorts (Courcheval for instance) grade on the steepest part of the run.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I didn't think you had any pistes! wink wink Laughing
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,

Do you have any cable cars yet, or are they not required as you do not have any pistes?
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easiski wrote:
richmond wrote:
I was told by a bloke from Evolution 2 in Tignes (and it was confirmed by someone on this very forum!) that Vd'I grades by average gradient, so you can finsd almoat anything on almost any run. Sounds barmy.


We do too! And yes - some resorts (Courcheval for instance) grade on the steepest part of the run.

The Courchevel approach seems more helpful for most skiers, I'd have thought. Mind you, finding oneself on a significantly steeper piste than one expected is often good for one's skiing and always good for one's character (but not necessarily for one's laundry bill).
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Nick L, thanks for the detailed advice. Much appreciated!
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richmond, Aah - some truth in what you say, but I like to think that Val D and LDA cater to real skiers!! So long as you know in advance and can ask which blues are blue and which are really red (and we have one blue that is definitely black!) then you can adjust your route accordingly. Very Happy
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I think all the pistes in Val d are easy... providing you are wearing ice skates! But seriously they are generally more difficult than other resorts, good for improving your skiing though I think. Good tip if you are staying in La Daille, try the giant slalom run on the way home its actually easier to ski than any of the other runs, they keep the snow in perfect condition and not that many people use it. Maybe you're not supposed to...?
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easiski, doesn't grading runs in a misleading way rather negate the point of grading them at all? I don't think it's a big deal, it just seems a bit daft.
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Having repped out in Val D'Isere, from the number of clients I have taken to the medical centre I can say that piste ratings are understated. Val D'Isere is not ideal for total beginners, with the only blue run coming in to resort being santons. Val D'Isere has its advantage over other resorts due to the high glaciers in la foret and tigne. However a beginner would no venture this fair a field. There are better resorts for learning, Val Thorens, Meribel, Les Arc, as runsin to resort are more forgiving. Even better go to america.

For more links and information on french resort skiing look at my website which is currently under construction, but is on its way.... http://people.ac.uk/tjd20

hope this helps
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I think I'll pootle round the blues for the first couple of days, and then take advice from my ski instructor, when he sees how good/bad/indifferent I am. I've skied reds in Avoriaz and the Mont d'Arbois area of Megeve - how would anyone rate them in comparison to reds in Val? I generally have a problem with narrow. Steep is less of a problem if I have width in which to slow my descent (do I sound like a wuss? Embarassed ). I love speed, but generally only if there are hydraulic brakes involved.
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Just watch out for 'verte', I think I made my views on it clear on this thread:

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=21739&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=80

IMHO it is so far undergraded that it represents a real hazard to week one/two skiers. Evil or Very Mad

Plenty of nice runs to be had though both at Val D and Tignes Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
m00958 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the advice. Put my mind at rest snowHead

Don't think I'll be coming down the green run in La Daille as we're staying in La Fornet, and that sounds like a bit of bonus Smile Although the thought of flat sections coming back down to La Fornet makes me shudder (memories of Saalbach and some nasty flat blues Crying or Very sad)


I think the cable car is an option to come down. I think the blue fow to Le Fornet is a road down. I think its not one that requires poling. The alternative down I seem to recall a genuine black bump run (we were embarassed in to it by very pretty french woman staying in our chalet Embarassed )

I echo the comments of the above. There are plenty of options above the runs down to the resort. Le Face is a great run for a competent skier early in the day when well groomed and conditions are generally good. Others may disagree but it probably deserves to be black and is the main and only run in to Val (you can never find the blue that supposedly exists on the piste map). This generally means carnage at 4pm when people ski down to the resort who are struggling to ski the run. Its not a confidence builder.

Trolles -A lovely black run down to Tignes. IT has a steep section but is a lovely run when well pisted. (That said first visit to Val D'sere was week 3 on snow in 1994 and it was scary icy bumps). In view of comment above I suspect is carnage at 4 pm when people return to Tignes.

I like the skiing in Val d'sere.I think it gets bad press from some on here because of supposed hooray British. I think the skiing is fantastic. Its more limited for beginners but as Easiski says there are plenty of options. The runs on the glacier at Val are pretty straightforward/ unexciting. Quickest access is from Le fornet
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I agree that Verte is a joke bordering on dangerous. There's no way a week one skier would have relished skiing Verte last week. At one point, the green disappears completely and you find yourself on 'Orange' - a red piste. Not much fun if you were expecting a nice green run back to La Daille. The green run from the top of the Borsat Express had massive moguls at the top as did the pitch on Verte prior to the top of the La Daille gondola. If I'd spent my first week staring down those particular sections of 'green' runs I probably would've given up skiing there and then. Evil or Very Mad

However, the runs at the top of Solaise, the glacier and over and into Tignes were superb last week. It's just a shame that the the runs into Val are so hairy for beginners. Santons was fun to come down but not suitable for beginners, forget the Face, Verte is a real mixed bag and Piste M down from Solaise was bare ice in the narrow section half way down.

Val d'Isere has great skiing for intermediates and above but beginners definitely need strong guidance and advice on where to go, what to avoid, and know when to take the safe option of the gondola back down to the village.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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richmond, But who is misleading? Us and Val D who state the truth, or the "prissy" resorts who just want to flatter the punters? I would say they are misleading peeps into thinking they are better than they actually are, which could be dangerous.

dan100, skied Trolles 2 years ago (very well pisted), and it didn't seem to merit a black label to me - nice run, lots of variety of terrain, but the steepest wasn't very!
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easiski, fair point, but it seems to be Vd'I that is considered to be out of step. Presumably what the punters want is to know whether or not they can comfortably/safely ski a particular slope; that requires some consistency from resort to resort, and Vd'I is (apparently) not making much of an effort.

Your comment about misleading peeps into thinking that they are better skiers than they are suggests that there is some sort of absolute standard for runs of a particular colour. It doesn't matter how easy or hard blues, reds, greens, blacks, whatever, are; what matters (arguably) is consistency so that skiers who can manage a blue in one resort are not put in danger in another because a blue there is really a double mega black with knobs on. Which resort is 'right' is not important.

BTW, I skied (not as much as I would have liked) in L2A some years ago and I don't remember thinking that it 'undergraded'. (I was on a 5 day break; it snowed for about 3 of them to the extent that nothing or almost nothing was open. Must go back sometime.)
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AxsMan, and Hywel, Regarding Verte, I loved it! - I just took it that Greens were like that. (I went down it on the afternoon of day three of my first ever week, last Feb) There is the bit where it gets narrow and zig-zags as it joins OK (Edit: oh actually, isn't it "Orange" which Verte joins at the very last section? - this is also a red) and this zig-zag section is notorious for being Icy. So many people are there and they just have the reaction "I can't go down there! It's way too Icy!" and they all stop on the sides. There's no way snow-ploughing that one would work. I figured the only way to get over it was to just go for it and it worked.
Further up though, there are some flatish parts. The very top after coming off L'Olympique cable car, there is the initial short bit which is icy and is a bit of a challenge to get down without losing a ski and if you take the wrong turning, you could go down FACE.

The blues were much tamer, or rather, much more consistent IMHO. There is a green at the top of Solaice which is nice though. Good for the next step after going on the nursery slope.[/b]
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Mr.Si wrote:


....The blues were much tamer....[/b]


Absolutely, which is my point. Verte is Ok (literally Laughing ) but advertised as a green makes it appear (on the piste map) to be 'beginner friendly' - it isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I love espace killy, I just feel they are asking for trouble by inviting week one skiers to descend via what is basically a reasonable RED. snowHead
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AxsMan, R us ure you mean Verte ? That would be a Green anywhere I've been? surely same everywhere .. in fact if you don't get a move on you would end up walking the middle section... more fun at the end but hardly a Blue or Red ...
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Agenterre, The upper and middle sections are nice easy cruises, but the last third coexists, (i.e is the same piste as) the red OK. It's not a bad red, but because (by late afternoon) it is full of week one beginners and is polished to a glaze, it's a bit hairy! Shocked

If they just labelled it a red (or even a blue) it wouldn't take so many folks by surprise. Sad
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Agenterre, AxsMan,

The problem is most people do not ski the bottom section of Verte they ski the steep icy section of Coupe du Monde (ok) - Red run

Vert cuts across this piste on a path through the trees and comes out at the bottom of the Funival NOT at the bottom of the competition stade.
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stewart woodward, Fair point, except that every time I've been down it, the path through the trees has been signed as 'closed' Puzzled

(and the 200 yds of piste you have to deal with before you get the choice is distinctly blue/purple Laughing )

Off to Pila tomorrow, clear skies, gentle pistes and Bombardini! Madeye-Smiley Laughing Hope you're having fun in Tignes with all that snow that's dumped in the last week or so! snowHead
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m00958, there will be loads of ski-ing/boarding for you to enjoy above the valley runs. Val D's layout above a long narrow valley with the three villages linked by road (and very frequent buses) allows various permutations to ride a lift down and avoid some of the trickier runs. You can ride the gondola directly back to Le Fornet. If you fancy some apres in Val centre you can ride down in the olympic gondola and check out Face as you descend. Across the hill you can ride down on the solaise chair, have a few scoops in Val then hop on the bus back to Le Fornet. Being able to ride down by lift/gondola right across the Espace Killy allows tentitive skiers to cover/explore most of this fantastic ski area. Have fun!! Cool Very Happy Very Happy
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stewart woodward, it still joins in with the bottom of Orange at the end though, and Orange is Red, if you get my drift.
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