 Poster: A snowHead
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I thought that I would pass on some things that weren't obvious to me when I was learning, and I've had to pick up the hard way.
First, IMV fitness is much more important when learning to ski off piste, than when skiing on it, both because it's harder work, and also if you fall, it is an effort to get back up. If you're not fit, then this can ruin your whole day, as you become fitter, it just becomes part of the experience, and something to laugh about.
Second, when your instructor takes you on a steep pitch on your first day skiing off piste, he's actually doing you a favour. If skied with confidence, a steeper powder field will be easier to ski and turn in than a flatter pitch, as the snow is less likely to be pulling back on your skis making you feel unstable. This is a problem that I had in that I could not understand why the Piste to Powder guys in St Anton were taking us on what I thought were quite steep pitches for what was an introductory lesson. Having now skied both steeper and flatter pitches, I now understand why they did this, and it would have made it easier if I'd understood this from the beginning. Combined with this is the fact that if you fall in powder, even on a steepish pitch, most of the time you stop where you fell, rather than sliding for miles and miles.
Third, confidence is almost everything. Let your skis run, and then pressure up, and then turn, and don't be afraid of a bit of speed. Trying to turn slowly in powder is difficult, more speed helps you, so when you set off, point your skis down the fall line to help you build speed, rather than at a tangent to it, as we were taught when we were learning to piste ski. Similarly don't be afraid to let the skis turn in their own time, rather than fighting them around.
Fourth, if you really want to learn to ski powder, because of a combination of the high precipitation and different approach to inbounds/outbounds vs on-piste/off-piste, North America seems to be place to go. The situation in Europe makes it much more difficult to just pop off the piste for some powder turns. If going off piste in Europe, avalanche gear is essential, in America, as long as you're in bounds, it's not really needed.
Fifth, it seems that too many people wait (myself included) until they can carve immaculate turns on the piste before venturing off-piste, which gives powder a mystique which can be counter productive. IMV, as soon as you can comfortably ski red runs, start getting yourself some off piste instruction, and it'll save a lot of problems in the long run. A big part of the problem is overcoming the fear, and if you take the approach that there's nothing particularly special about skiing in powder, then IMV it'll pay dividends far sooner.
Edit. Sixth, the one time I've had poor advice from an instructor about skiing powder was in St Anton, when after a dump of about a foot, he told me that I did not need fatter skis to ski it. I may not have needed fatter skis, but it would have made it easier and more enjoyable.
I would be interested to hear others views on this subject. 
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 20-12-06 18:48; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for the info, I'm a beginner skier myself. Only had one week of instructions, I think I ski pretty wel for 1 week of skiing. I'm also thinking about powder skiing. I think this year, I'll take 3 days of private lessons (2 week skiing holiday), but next year I definitely want to learn how to ski in powder maybe I'll go to America because of snow conditions. Or I'll ask the instructor to give us a beginner lesson in powder skiing.
Powder skiing seems to me the ulitmate way of skiing, seeing feeling the fresh snow blowing around yourself must be amazing. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Skiing powder is very much like making love to a beautiful woman....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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martski, oi, that's MY line!
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here
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wear The Fox Hat, whilst you may have uttered such a grouping of words in the past (I neither confirm or deny any knowledge whatsoever of this) technically one cannot 'own' a 'line' save as far as one can have rights to such 'works' under standard publishing copywright law...anyway, I hereby utter an absolute unreserved apology but without any expression of liability or fault for any loss howsoever caused in the past preceding this apology or for any such future loss as a direct result or any loss consequential economic or otherwise and do not offer or countenance any such indemnity for any such loss for which no admission is made. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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This topic has some potential, it would be nice not to see it diverted 
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Kramer, I think you hit the nail on the head very well 5 times.
Point 3 - slow it down, and hang in the fall line a bit longer.
You missed out on point 6 which is: If the powder is light and fluffy, keep your mouth closed when you fall, or you may well choke.
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Kramer, that was great - thanks. Any tips for finding lost skis?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kramer, lots of good thoughts there but don't be lulled into a false sense of security in places like Whistler. It seems there are fairly serious avalanches inbounds there every year.
Other than that, your tips sound quite like the three pillars of off piste skiing as told to me by a guide I use:
1. speed is your friend
2. don't try to feel in control all the time
3. the steeper it is the easier it is to turn
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| Quote: |
point your skis down the fall line to help you build speed, rather than at a tangent to it, as we were taught when we were learning to piste ski
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yes, I was taught this, so you only have to make half a turn to start with - but I still get scared, and one of the reasons is that I have found falling in powder tends to hurt my (dodgy) knees a lot more, because the snow grabs the skis. You often read that falling in powder is not painful, but I don't altogether agree. I have had some really spectacular pile ups which have not hurt at all, but one or two small sort of falls, with a twist, which have wrenched the knee quite badly because i carried on twisting whilst the skis were held firmly in the powder. I am not afraid of falling per se - or I wouldn't have started learning to snowboard - but I do find that wrenching on the knees a bit worrying. I can't imagine there is anyway of avoiding that? I have my bindings very light, by the way, and they rarely release even so, as I am not an aggressive skier so I am not about to crank them down even further below the recommended level. A few times, when turns have worked well, I have had a glimpse of just how great it must be to be able to ski powder well and this year I have some new skis (Line Celebrity) which I hope will make it a bit easier. That's if we get any powder... I'm sure I need to stand up more too - I had a private lesson in powder with a local instructor last year, who kept shouting "debout! debout " as I got lower and lower. At any rate, I shall follow this thread with interest in the hope that this is the year when I conquer the powder.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laundryman, look at the track and direction that you were going in, and extrapolate it by a couple of feet. I'm not so hot in that area myself. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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BTW, I'm not nearly an expert myself, just thought that I would post a few musings that had come to mind in the learning process, and let others add and detract as they see fit.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, probably just sluff which is off-putting but not as dangerous as a full-on slab
I have the same view on avvy gear as you - it's not like it's heavy so why not carry it if you have it? I've always been pretty blase at Whistler but I read an account of a big enough to be scary slide on Surprise in the last couple of weeks which will make me more careful in future. Surprise for those who don't know is very easily accessed, not very steep and is very close to groomed runs
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Arno, it was definitely breaking away in slabs each time you landed a turn, fortunately it was so steep that there wasn't a huge build up on it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Loosen up your top buckle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One particularly useful piece of advice i got on the 'day i cracked powder' was: u need rhythm and balance but the rhythm is more important because it's harder to find if u lose it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RE POINT 3
think "patience"
as you finish a turn, the skis compress the snow (build a platform) and flex (reverse camber) - let them do this
eventually there is enough energy stored in the skis that the smallest release of pressure will spring you out of that turn and into the next - the weightlessness in this spring is one of the joys of powder skiing
to get a feel for this process and to get some rythym going at the start of a run, point the skis along way down the fall line and as your speed builds, gently bounce up and down in a straight line.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jedster, I think that you've put it far more eloquently than I could.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nice summary.
Fitness, confidence and rythmn (FCR) are pretty much a given, for both on- and off-piste riding.
Good 20-20 vision, so that one can see better the unpisted slope ahead, is often a key success factor that gets overlooked.
I agree that much of the mystique and faux-snobbery about off-piste is nonsense. It is tangibly easier than many expect. Especially with fatter planks.
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| jedster wrote: |
| to get a feel for this process and to get some rythym going at the start of a run, point the skis along way down the fall line and as your speed builds, gently bounce up and down in a straight line. |
Yes, that's really good to do and, if you're on a long gentle-ish slope, just start shifting your weight ever so slightly back and forth between feet so you're landing a little more on one foot then the other as you bounce. It's really surprising when u look back up the hill and see how your tracks wave back and forth with minimal effort.
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Kramer, good tips. Re your first point; things tend to get easier physically as you get better technically. One of the commonest reasons for thigh fatigue/burn when learnig powder skiing is the tendency to lean back on your skis. This is not required and in fact counterproductive. As Admin points out balance (and rhythm) is the key. My tip for learning to ski powder is to remain over the centre of the ski and allowing for individual differences in style for me the bets way to establish where this is, is to ski on piste with your boots completely unbuckled. This will not only make you find your centre of ski position it will also let you experience the letting your skis run sensation mentioned in Kramers third tip.
PS this is an amateur opinion/tip
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PP, for me the fitness thing had more to do with a fear of falling, knowing that if I did it would exhaust me, making it more likely to happen again and so on in a viscious cycle. Again as technique gets better, you're less likely to fall, which makes it less of a problem.
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good point Kramer - it's all about a virtuous cycle of building confidence
I'd argue that once you get the hang of it, powder skiing can be less tiring than skiing hardpack - generally travelling slower and dealing with lower edging/turning forces
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
as you finish a turn, the skis compress the snow (build a platform) and flex (reverse camber) - let them do this
eventually there is enough energy stored in the skis that the smallest release of pressure will spring you out of that turn and into the next - the weightlessness in this spring is one of the joys of powder skiing
to get a feel for this process and to get some rythym going at the start of a run, point the skis along way down the fall line and as your speed builds, gently bounce up and down in a straight line.
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jedster,
Isn't that a quote from Mark Elling's "All Mountain Skier"??
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kramer, don't go straight!
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I don't know why people have such difficulty in skiing powder. I have lots more problems when skiing packed snow....although thinking about it, the instructors aren't hanging around on powder days to see if my powder skiing technique needs working on... 
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, when you said you were not fit enough for skiing powder, what exercises would you have done to improve your fitness with hindsight?
Where there any particular muscles that could have been working better?
I have a few weeks more training to put in before heading out for a little holiday to Whistler so am interested to know about any emphasis I should be putting on particular exercises.
Thanks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Snowy, in hindsight, I think that just a reasonable level of cardiovascular fitness is helpful when learning to ski powder, and that if you don't do any other fitness work, then it is going to be difficult to learn, especially when compared to piste skiing. This is on top of any core muscle and leg work that people may feel like doing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Acacia,
not deliberately!
I do actually own the book (which I think is excellent by the way) and find the way that he describes skiing really chimes with the way I think about it. That said I think I'd have used the same language 10 years ago (and 8 years before I read his book).
What do you think of the book? I'd recommend it to any intermediate/advanced skier looking to get better.
J
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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jedster,
Sorry I accused you of plagiarism!!
-It's a great book that's provided me with a lot of help over the years.
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