 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi there,
Payed a wee visit to my local dryslope on Monday for an hour and was having some problems getting the skis to carve. It was only on my last holiday that i really began to get to grips with carving, but i jus could not get the skis to lock in on the dry slope. Its a dendix slope and its only 80 metres long. When i tried to put them on their edges i just slid across the slope sideways and found that the weight ended up more on my inside ski. when I tried to shift more weight to the outside to balance them out a bit, i just skidded sideways more or wanted to fall flat.
I'm sure there are a million possible underlying reasons for this, but if anyone has any insight into why it happens it would be appreciated:)
I felt that more speed would have helped and im pretty sure when i get onto the snow I'll figure it out in a morning or so, but contributions would be well received:)
thanks
ryan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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element, You need to be really really sensitive to the ski to get it to carve on plastic....Here's some things to think about
Skis skid when they can't provide enough grip to track through the turn. This is usually because they are being forcefully rotated by the operator (that's you).
1) Whatever you do to start the turn - slow it down !
2) Make sure you are pushing down on the skis (into the mat) - rather than sideways - away from you.
3) Make sure you are staying on the middle/front of the ski - if you are even a little bit backward (on the ski), you'll need to force the skis to start the next turn.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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element, I had a similar experience on my local slope in Scumhampton (dendix, 120 metres) last week.
It was my first go on dendix for a few years, and my first since being able to carve well on snow.
Just like you I couldn't get the skis to lock on their edges. Blaming rustiness I did a few drills to "activate ze inside kneee", transfer my weight properly and get the shins parallel. Better, but still definite skidding.
So I watched a group of instructors warming up for a race training session and carving as if on rails. They were all doing the same thing - an outrageous inside tip lead, such that the toe of the outside foot was level with the heel of the inside on turn initiation. It looked a bit ugly, but was clearly effective.
So I gave it a go and wow.....locked on!
I'm not planning to amend my on snow technique, but it seems that for dendix, this is hugely effective.
Would also echo one of the points that ski, made:
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3) Make sure you are staying on the middle/front of the ski - if you are even a little bit backward (on the ski), you'll need to force the skis to start the next turn.
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Dendix really seems to punish you if you're at all in the back seat. I couldn't do a thing turnwise until I got well forward. I loosened my ankle clips last week to help this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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element, you say that you slid sideways so I would suggest that you were not really committing to your edges as much as you thought you were. If you're not a regular on the dry slope and have a fear of falling, sub-consciously perhaps you were just holding back a bit. First of all I would suggest initially practising from halfway up the slope and just concentrate on one long turn in one direction. If going slowly you won't want to roll your edges over too far or you'll fall over. However, as long as you do angulate your skis you will start to turn. Make sure that your head and shoulders are not just leaning in the direction you want to turn, as you want to try to keep your head as much over the centre of your skis as possible, so you need to move your hips over to the inside of the turn. There are different ways of triggering this, but one way is to initiate the turn by first moving your inside knee to the inside and allowing your outside knee to follow, but put a bit more pressure on the outside ski when doing this. So if your turning to the left, initiate with the left knee and allow your right knee to follow. Your left leg should be more bent than your right. Do the reverse to practise a long turn in the other direction and then link them together, making sure you are completing your turns to keep speed under control. As you build up speed you can angulate more and put more pressure on the outside ski. When feeling comfortable with the long turns, try shorter turns.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Having coached racers on both dendix and snow, I would say that the technique stated above
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an outrageous inside tip lead
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Is just compensating for lack of good technique or ability.
Over the years i've seen some horrendous techniques employed by people to carve on dendix when all that's needed is some feeling for what the skis are doing. There is not as much support as on snow (generally) and because of this, first runs after snow may seem very skiddy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The wonders of skiing on bristles. It just ain't the same grip level as snow.
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Quote:
an outrageous inside tip lead
Is just compensating for lack of good technique or ability.
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I thought as much, but it was the instructors who were doing this - I wonder if that's what they coach?
Good to know that it's possible to do on dendix without this - am motivated to have another go without this "cheat"!
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uktrailmonster, precisely....which is what makes it such a good training surface.
element, what ski and ennalsj said are both good. Other things to think about are:
4) are you on your own skis or slope ones? If the latter (actually either), have a feel of the edges. They will probably have troubles cutting butter, in which case you're on a hiding to nothing - blunt edges just will not hold on Dendix and they need to be really sharp. You can probably make major improvements even with blunt edges through improving your technique (1..3), but in the final analysis you'll still skid at any reasonable speed.
5) if you're particularly skidding at the end of the turn it could be that you're forcing the ski too much. As you angulate to get the turn going extend your legs as you move into the fall line, and allow your legs to flex as you come out of it, really being careful to minimise the amount of sideways pressure at then end of the turn (gravity and centripetal forces then combining to provide the highest pressure on the surface in the second half of the turn, rather than opposing as in the first half). The idea is to allow the body and the skis to travel in pretty much independent arcs just crossing as you change edges.
I've just twigged 5) in the last month; I was previously getting this all wrong, and fixing it is making a huge difference to the tightness of the turns I can carve. This is probably a refinement though, and I agree that the main problem is likely to be
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| This is usually because they are being forcefully rotated by the operator (that's you). |
and
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| I would suggest that you were not really committing to your edges as much as you thought you were |
as that's what I see in almost everyone on our local slope who hasn't had some serious race training.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I was always told to balance on the outside ski only and steer with the inside. You then have more weight on the edge and no skidding.
Very difficult to do at first, but once you can balance on one ski, the performance shoots up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you look back say 2 or 3 pages, you will find the "Skiing Myths" articles on both carving, and "weight". Might be worth a read to help you understand what should be going on.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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element, I find that on plastic in short radius turns I have to use my ankles a knees a bit more than on snow and on long radius you do absolutely have to angulate.
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thanks very much everyone for the opinions, gives me something to work on 
cheers
ryan
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