 Poster: A snowHead
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An odd question this, but stay with me...  Japanese clients of mine (currently living in England) want to try skiing in the alps or pyrenees. They've skied plenty back home but want to try out europe. The main problem is language: while their english is good they haven't a clue with other euro languages, and would probably struggle with european accents speaking english anyway. Should I just tell them to head for Andorra or Meribel where almost everyone you meet is a native english speaker? Or does anyone know of any hotels or tour operators that cater for this (probably extremely small) niche market?
Have you seen Japs in the european mountains? I expect most of them come on tour packages direct from Japan, but they must stay somewhere! I am also not sure what the Japanese expect out of a ski holiday:- e.g. is ski-in-ski-out the norm over there? Self-catering? Hotel? I tried explaining the chalet concept to them but I am not sure they totally got it! Cheers in advance for your help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the ice perv, I skied in Sapporo - from what I remember, there weren't too many chalet-style properties or large hotels. The hill is very near the city (which is large) and I think people go for the day. It was about 15 years ago though and my memory is hazy.
I'm reminded of when we invited a bunch of Japanese clients to a day's county cricket at Guildford. They came with little books explaining the rules of cricket and were utterly bemused. Come to think of it, it was the same when we made them play real tennis at Hampton. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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the ice perv, Saas-Fee has a Japanese version of its website and I'm sure I've seen some menus in Japanese outside various restaurants. Of course, that doesn't mean they speak any Japanese inside!
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I would have thought that Zermat would be the place for them to go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I imagine that if you shoved into a posh hotel in a posh resort there'd be people falling over themselves to speak to them in English or Japanese; some Japanese clients of mine beetled off to Hotel Posh, Zermatt after a hearing in Munich and had a great time, speaking only Japanese and some English.
If their English is half decent, pretty much anywhere will do, I'd have thought. In my experience, non native English speakers find it at least as easy to speak to other non native English speakers as to native speakers, provided the standard is reasonable. With good English they should be fine anywhere, even France, where ecomnomic necessity seems to have overcome the resentment of people who don't even try to speak French. Austria and Switzerland seem very well provided with competent English speaking hotel, ski shop and ski school staff.
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Interesting.... sounds like Zermatt or Saas-Fee are good bets. I did warn them off Italy - much as I love the place, english doesn't seem to get you as far there as elsewhere in the alps. Chalet holidays are not everyone's cup of tea/saki so I will probably advise them to book into a good hotel and splash out.
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the ice perv, if they are not very 'westernised', a chalet hol could be a huge strain on all concerned. The mind boggles somewhat at a bunch of Japanese and a couple of semi competent 18 year old chalet persons trying to understand each other, verbally and culturally; it would either be the hol of a lifetime or you'd lose some clients. I'm sure that a good hotel would be a safer bet.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 7-12-06 11:05; edited 1 time in total
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Val d'Isere has quite a few Japanese I think (and a Japanese Restaurant - unless it has gone since I was last there). And at Courchevel they all seem to have been told to ski the Jockey run for some reason - the same way as they all go up the Eiger in the train in the summer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Most places in Switzerland speak very good english so if they have been here for a good few years and get by then I can't see
Switzerland being a problem...not the well known resorts anyway...ie, Wengen, Zermatt, Verbier, etc etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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the ice perv,
Scotland 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the ice perv,
I have seen quite a few Japanese in Europe. If they have managed to live in a very different country like the UK they are probably well able to adapt to circumstances I would use the same criteria for resort selectiona as with British people. ie What is their ability? When are they going? and what is the budget? The internationally famous resorts all get Japaneses tourists from Japan but I am sure that if they can cope with the UK they will be able to cope with most resorts where service is IMHO somewhat better than UK.
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We've got a couple of Japanese instructors in ADH and he is trying to open up the market for this fellow countrymen - there isn't a huge market for the mo here but think it could come, I know the SATA and tourist office here have been over in Japan and China this year doing ski salons trying to open up the market. There are a few rather lovely privately owned/run chalets here which should go some way to overcome the language and possible problems 18 yr olds may have!
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You know it makes sense.
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The Harry Redknapps like to do things mob-handed.
They are quite common in Switzerland, especially Wengen, as the non-skiers amongst them are quite keen on photography and choo choo trains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lots of Japanese in Chamonix in summer, and there's a (very nice) Japanese restaurant there where they indulge my stumbling attempts at speaking the language with much charm.
Not quite so many in winter, though, but enough that there are a couple of shops with Japanese signs outside, and Japanese-speaking staff available at the Tourist Office (I think it's from 2 till 4? you could call them and ask). There's a Japanese guy who works at Snell Sports which is a good place to hire skis etc.
Zermatt has lots of Japanese tourism, so i would imagine would be well geared up, though I don't remember any specifics. Interlaken also - many restaurants in Interlaken have japanese verions of their menus, you see the script everywhere.
Finally, I've stayed at a nice, simple hotel run by a lovely Swiss-Japanese couple in Grindelwald called the Bellary - it's a great place
http://www.bellary.ch/
- looks a bit grim on the site, but we had a lovely time there
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mrs A is Japanese, and has good English but is clueless when it comes to other European languages. However, she has never had too much trouble encountering Europeans speaking English.
Generally Europeans don't mind speaking English when its the only common language they have with another non-anglophone. It's the Brits who can't be bothered to learn a bit of their language that really gets their backs up.
Actually, Mrs A finds most European accents easier to deal with than the local Yorkshire accent.
While it's true that the popular conception of the Japanese tourist is one of a large flock being rounded up by tour guides waving banners, most Japanese who have committed to the adventure of working overseas are more than prepared to travel independently on holiday as well.
I shouldn't think that your clents will have too many problems in any reasonable international resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the ice perv,
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Have you seen Japs in the european mountains
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i think you meant to say Japanese.  or Nihon Jin.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whenever I've been in Saas Fee in summer skiing there have always been large numbers of Japanese there at the same time (and Orthodox Jews for some reason). Not entirely sure where they stay I'm afraid.
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| the ice perv wrote: |
An odd question this, but stay with me... Japanese clients of mine (currently living in England) want to try skiing in the alps or pyrenees. They've skied plenty back home but want to try out europe. The main problem is language: while their english is good they haven't a clue with other euro languages, and would probably struggle with european accents speaking english anyway. Should I just tell them to head for Andorra or Meribel where almost everyone you meet is a native english speaker? Or does anyone know of any hotels or tour operators that cater for this (probably extremely small) niche market?
Have you seen Japs in the european mountains? I expect most of them come on tour packages direct from Japan, but they must stay somewhere! I am also not sure what the Japanese expect out of a ski holiday:- e.g. is ski-in-ski-out the norm over there? Self-catering? Hotel? I tried explaining the chalet concept to them but I am not sure they totally got it! Cheers in advance for your help. |
Most resorts should be fine. Alpine tourism is a globalized industry. They are used to many cultures.
If you really want to play it safe, you probably need to head for a worldclass resort with a worldwide reputation. One that is most geared up to welcoming non-native speakers from all corners of the globe. That narrows it down to just a handful. Zermatt, St Moritz, Davos, Val d'Isere, Courchevel 1850 and Chamonix would top my list of recommendations.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Add Wengen or Grindelwald to your list. They get a lot of Japanese heading up to Jungfraujoch, so are geared up to communicating with them.
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I think if somebody had only one opportunity to go skiing in Europe in their life then they should go to either Zermatt or Chamonix.
If you choose Chamonix and they can afford it, send them to the Hotel Mont Blanc. Right in centre of town, handy for ski buses, outdoor heated swimming pool with stunning mountain views and that top notch understated classiness that only the French / Swiss seem to be able to achieve.
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the ice perv, How about nips, slopes, slitty eyes then....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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the ice perv, an odd question indeed! Why should Japanese people, who travel far and wide over this globe, holidaying, living and working in all corners of this planet, have any particular difficulty in an Alpine holiday resort of all places? They'll have no more difficulty than any of the hoardes of British, Americans, Russians or whatever other nationality skiers who speak no Alpine continental European language.
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slikedges, that is not necessarily true. From my experience of Japanese people, language will be only one of many cultural differences which they may find awkward, a circumstance which most Japanese are at pains to avoid. Of course, if they are well travelled what you say will be true, but if not, their enjoyment is likely to be enhanced by a bit of forethought.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| Add Wengen or Grindelwald to your list. They get a lot of Japanese heading up to Jungfraujoch, so are geared up to communicating with them. |
As Elizabeth B says, Grindelwald is very popular with Japanese - I heard that there is a Japanese TV series which is actually filmed around Grindelwald -perhaps any Snowheads living in Japan (if there are any!) can confirm. Certainly the Station Restaurant at Kleine Scheidegg has Japanese Menus, and even serves Miso Soup and Soba Noodles!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, their traditional culture may indeed be the most unusual amongst those of the other G7 nations, and I'd agree that not in common with those from the other comparable nations, they traditionally are at pains not to cause offence, but in my experience the modern day Japanese is a lot more resilient and resourceful abroad than you seem to think. Imho a Japanese who spoke English and was inclined to go skiing in the Alps shouldn't expect to encounter any difficulty suffficient to be a consideration and would certainly find it much easier than an Englishman going skiing in Japan.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| would certainly find it much easier than an Englishman going skiing in Japan. |
My only bother was finding big enough boots! 
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You know it makes sense.
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slikedges, don't disagree, but old the ice perv obviously wants these chaps to have a really good time without any hitches.
I'd say that Japanese culture and social mores are the most distinctive I've come across anywhere, not just among G7 countries.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The trouble with Chamonix is you have to get the hang of the buses because everything is strung out along the valley. You have to find out which bus stops where and how often they go etc etc - even speaking French it is sometimes hard to work out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Austrians and Swiss generally have much nicer villages than France. I'd back Wengen - such a wonderful site, no traffic - most of the same skiing as Grindelwald and sharing the train through the Eiger which draws lots of Japanese, but also access to Murren. However, if they are expert Skiers there might not be enough challenge - it is mostly intermediate and not much you could call black.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How come noone has suggested La Rosiere?
I understand that, along with a fresh dump of the white stuff every night, visitors receive a free babel fish, thus eliminating the bothersome need to speak more than one language.
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Well according to this article from the BBC, the ice perv obviously has a point.
Apparently about 12 Japanese people each year have to be repatriated from Paris suffering from a nervous breakdown, after discovering that Parisians can be rude or that the city doesn't meet their expectations. The embassy has a 24 hour hotline for those suffering from severe culture shock 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Shortening the name (British to Brits) gives no clue to offensiveness!
I don't know if it is offensive to call Japanese people 'Japs', but it is certainly offensive to call Pakistanis 'Pakis'...
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Meanwhile, back on thread....
Skiing in ADH a few years ago couldn't move for Japanese tourist groups - well in excess of couple of hundred on the slopes. Possibly all on one organised tour, as they was a remarkable similarity in jacket colour. So, as sarah@alpedhuez, says, there must be something there that is attractive or well set up or our Far eastern visitors.
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| xyzpaul wrote: |
Shortening the name (British to Brits) gives no clue to offensiveness!
I don't know if it is offensive to call Japanese people 'Japs', but it is certainly offensive to call Pakistanis 'Pakis'... |
Words mean what they are USED to mean.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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the ice perv, As the Japanese people are clients of yours i would be interested to hear their reaction if you introduced them "as my Jap clients" My feeling would be they wouldnt be clients for long.... 
snowball, Not to be too pedantic or PC on this but i spent a fair amount of time in Japan and Japs to the Japanese is like Yanks to Americans. Not quite Pakis to Pakistani's but rude and uncomfortably close to racist...
Back onto thread Japanese people typically dont travel well and get stressed easily when out of their country for the first time. Any help they could get from native Japanese speakers would go a long way to helping them have a fun time....
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FAQ
sorry, can't read too much into that - what are the equiv figures for Americans 