When is a piste not a piste ?

brian

When it's an "itinerary".

I've decided to ignore all my own good advice about waiting for the snow reports and have booked a hotel in Zermatt for the beginning of Feb (going to see the Matterhorn was on the things to do before dying list).

So, what's the deal with these "itineraries", former black runs that have been reclassified as "off piste". Are they safe to ski:

- without a guide ?
- on your own ?
- are they patrolled ?
- opened/closed depending on avalanche risk, etc. ?

A snowHead

here you go

save the cost of the trip Shocked

As far as I know itineraries (in France anyway) are not "officially" patrolled and would be subject to the same warnings/advice as hors piste in the event of avalanche risk. A guide should not be necessary but give more serious thought than usual to the possibility of getting caught in bad weather/white outs in such a situation. I would never ski an unpatrolled area absolutely alone, but if there are others on the trail I would probably risk it if the weather looked OK.

Could be wrong though!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yes, I know those runs. They're classics, and have to be skied. The toughest is probably the Stockhorn. Zermatt would certainly close them for avalanche risk etc. I'd be inclined to ski them with company, in good visibility, but you certainly don't need a guide.

They're simply pistes in the old-fashioned sense - ungroomed and unpatrolled.

Have a wonderful time!

brian

Thanks guys. I've skied stuff in the 3V, like the Sous Telepherique run in Courchevel, that's marked as itinerary but some of the Zermatt ones look a bit futher away and out of sight of lifts and pistes.

I'm going with the better half, better at a lot of things but skiing isn't one of them so any of the tougher stuff I'll have to go solo.

Anybody know of any guides operating off-piste groups ? Like Alpine experience do in Val d'Isere ?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

brian, Yes - an "itinerary" is an ungroomed piste. I can't speak about Zermatt, but here (where we have lots of them) they are patrolled in the normal way, they are marked, but never groomed.

NB: La Grave is not like this. Not groomed, not marked, not patrolled either. Smile

You'll need to Register first of course.

thanks easiski, I didn't know that French itineraries were patrolled. A comforting thought.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

It sounds like tha majority of the terrain at fernie and several other canadian . north american resorts. The easier runs are groomed regularly, but the harder stuff is left. As I've mentioned elsewhere, even the most skilled pisteur would struggle to get a pistenbully on Tom's Run or concussion chutes

After all it is free

Again, I can only speak about LDA, but most of our off piste pistes are black runs that are now deemed too steep for piste machines. One or two of the steep runs have winches and stuff for the piste machines, but most are now just left unpisted.

I think the safety changes for piste machine drivers came in about 6 or 7 years ago, but I'm not sure if they're throughout France or just for here.

The point about ski-ing unpisted runs, patrolled or not, is that extra care should be taken in case of hidden hazzards below the snow. The ski patrollers everywhere have an office where you can go and ask, and they'll be happier to anwser your questions first rather than rescue you later. If in any doubt make sure that their number is in your mobile in case of problems - they'll still rescue you in an unpatrolled area - it'll just cost you!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

The pistes we're talking about in Zermatt are marked yellow on the map. This map of the Gornergrat/Stockhorn ski area shows several of them.

I said above that they are unpatrolled. This needs a bit of qualification. They would be patrolled to a basic extent, in the sense of being officially opened and closed each morning and afternoon, with a rescue service available on demand, but they would not be groomed or (in my experience) marked for typical on-piste hazards.

There is an ambiguity, because Zermatt's description of yellow runs is simply "downhill ski runs" on one part of their website and "unprepared" on another. The French text states "itineraires".

Essentially you just need to approach this type of run with a bit more caution. It will have relatively few skiers on it, the snow could be rougher and bumpier, but there would be no exceptional hazards such as drop-offs. You might have to watch out for the occasional hole or rock.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

When its ajar

snow reports

My experience of Itinerary runs has been very variable. Sometimes they are just like a normal piste, but quieter, at others they can be very steep narrow and bumpy, obviously having never been groomed. In the same day in St Anton, two different itinerary runs gave me both the best and worst experiences of recent memory. The first being essentially and steep groomed red with noone else on it and good visibility, the second being a steep narrow bumpy icy gully, which was essentially ungroomable. Couple this with a cloud bank coming in just after we had passed the point of no return, and the fact that it had one of the longest drops in the resort (or did it just seem that way?), and it made for an uncomfortable run. I am a reasonably strong intermediate skier, happy on most if not all black runs, and I found it to be very hard going, I was very happy that I was with a stronger skier rather than one of my less experienced friends, as I think that it could have easily turned into a very bad experience.

From now on I would not go down an itinerary run without asking a local instructor or patroller what it was like first.

Kramer, Good idea. Always ask, but I'm astonished to learn that you skied an itinerary that had been groomed - I thought that by definition they never were, but maybe Austria is different.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

It was groomed up the middle, with bumps on both edges. One of those perfect days, just two of us, first lift up in the morning, sun shining, untracked corduroy. Absolutely brilliant. I always thought that itinerary runs never got groomed as well, but I've been on a couple that have been in places - the same thing happens on the lower slopes of the run down from the Aguille Percee in Tignes occasionally. On the St Anton piste map it states that itinerary runs are not groomed or patrolled as frequently as the marked piste, so I took it to mean that although they may be groomed, it wasn't a daily occurence.

A snowHead

I suspect they may be groomed if they become rutted and icy between snowfalls but not otherwise

Help!!

When is a piste not a piste ?

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste