Lessons - your experiences

A snowHead

Whilst at the gym this morning, thinking about how my 50 minutes/day 5-6 days a week should really improve my skiing experience in 16 weeks or so, I started to think about the lessons I'd had over the years.

This was mainly about the relationship between fitness and technique - whether one, to a certain extent, can overcome the other.

I was a relative late starter at skiing - 38. I'm now 46. When I started I was on the rather heavy, unfit side. I've had 20 weeks skiing since with 30 hours instruction including 12.5 hours in one week as part of a determined effort to push my ability on to another level. Over the last 8 years, I've variously been reasonably fit and "svelt" or, like now, a porker!

Obviously there is a correlation between fitness and technique in so far that the fitter one is, the more likely the ability to ski longer, better.

So, I was curious....I have 1.5 hours worth of tuition for every week that I've skied. I can tackle most slopes/conditions confidently, I've taken part in a few local GS competitions. I had my first proper off-piste lesson earlier this year to get to grips with the one thing I've not pushed myself to - loved it incidentally, but realise that there is a long way to go before being super-confident.

All people learn at different rates for varying reasons, but I wondered what other people's experiences are, and whether there is any kind of rough "rule of thumb" for determining what one could reasonably expect to commit to in terms of lessons. I totally appreciate this may depend on what one wants to get out of their skiing. For me, it's being able to ski in control, on a variety of terrain, fast if I want to and to do more competitions.

A snowHead

Chasseur, if you're spending that long in the gym, how come you're still a porker? You should be like a piece of string.

I think you only have to look around on any piste to see how technique is more important than fitness. Being fit and strong but having poor technique just means you can throw yourself around inefficiently for longer before you collapse. wink

I suppose there's also an important distinction between general cardio-vascular fitness and specific muscle groups - and between general recreational skiers and competitors. Obviously competitive athletes in any sport need top fitness - but for the rest of us, technique is more important. But within technique I'd include balance - definitely something you can work on off the slopes.

Complete couch potatoes need to get out and do some exercise to get much out of a ski holiday - but that's not the issue here, is it? People who are overweight also need to lose it and efforts to strengthen the supporting leg muscles (quads and hamstrings particularly) are always well worthwhile. Even a small amount of extra weight puts huge additional stress on the knees and given that skiing does that too, it's a bit of a recipe for disaster to be an overweight skier with weak leg muscles and poor technique. As we've discussed elsewhere that neatly sums up a large number of middle aged female skiers (and maybe some young ones too). there are plenty of fat men skiing too - but I think they generally have stronger leg muscles.

So my conclusion would be that there are three important goals:

but no need to become superman!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I agree as long as your general fitness is good then as a recreational skier people should be ok. I find it doesn't matter how much I try to strengthen my legs I always ache on the second day but carry on and by the 3rd day I'm pain free. It is very hard to stimulate the exact way muscles are used for skiing, therefore when you come to actually ski the muscles feel it. But having said that being fit and slim can't be a bad thing.

I also ride horses and it is very similar in that I am not the fittest strongest person in the world but I could ride a horse for a considerable amount of time and not feel a thing as my muscles are used to being used in that way regularly. But a very fit, strong well worked out person could ride a horse when not use to it and the next day really ache.

On the lesson front. I think these are under used by many (me included). I was taught by my dad until I was 5. Then went to ski school on and off from 6-16yrs. Then didn't bother because of the extra expense. And to be honest I never really improved in that spell. I could ski all terrain that I wanted to (was crap on big bumps) so I just skied with family and friends. Then when I was 24 I went where Ski School was included so I decided to give it a go again. Well it was fab, really good fun, learnt loads of new things to help with bumps, powder etc. Then again at 26 it was the same senario. Best weeks skiing ever with the best ski instructor I've ever had.

Then last season reverted back to no lessons as not included. It was good but I can't say I felt I'd improved in the week. Although my confidence was still sky high from the two previous ski holidays.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I never see it worth paying for lessons but my best ski weeks have been when in ski school! Insane really, but that how it works with me.

Good technique makes fitness much less of an issue.

Smile

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The biggest step i have taken in my 23 year 'ski development' was doing an instructor course (BASI level 1) a few years ago. Not only did it improve my skiing overall but it has also given me a complete uderstanding of how and why ski techniques work.

Plus you get a shiney badge at the end (as long as you pass)

Very Happy

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Another vote for technique over fitness. And the fact that good lessons and practice tend to lead to improvement in most activities. wink

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Technique must be the reason I've done multiple 100 day seasons on snow and still manage to come back completely unfit and overweight... normally I'd blame booze but I didn't drink last season Sad

snow reports

When I went skiing for the first time last year with my college you could see straight away that the fitter people especially the ones who play football or rugby like myself Wink

progressed way way faster than the ones who where less fit. Many of us by the end of the week where more confident than some of the people that had been skiing for 2-3 weeks. I just think that the fitter you are the easier it is to get better and get a better technique because your body is used to getting in all sorts of positions. Very Happy

Tomo54, the ones that played sport wouldn't just be fitter; they'd have better balance, less fear of falling etc.

You know it makes sense.

DaveC, no, sorry. You can't blame being overweight on your technique. Or not on your ski technique, anyway. wink

Strength can overcome lack of technique to a degree. A nephew of mine was once skiing red runs, fast, on his 3rd day, with my daughter. It was in Austria and we pointed them out to our instructor, from a chairlift. He said that the lad was a "natural", and fearless, but was also using massive leg strength (he was a champion Western Australia squash player).

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

The crux here in terms of developing your skiing is not the amount of tuition, but the quality of the tuition. Plus your willingness to change & learn and apply it to your skiing when not in lessons.

Better I think to have longer term (if less frequent) coaching \ tuition with someone who knows what they are doing, than a lot of 'spot' lessons with random Instructors.

Of course, easy to say, but harder to find.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

All interesting but, I suppose that I should clarify what I was getting at:

Namely, that if people state what it is they get or want to get out of skiing (level, terrain, instructing, all-mountain, racing, etc), what has been their input from a lessons point of view to achieve that goal? As mentioned, for me it has equated to 1.5 hours/week. Which actually doesn't sound much...

You need to Login to know who's really who.

I had about 100 hours of coaching last season, which is down n the previous two years (about 150 hours each). Still lots I want to change about my skiing.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

rob@rar, blimey! I know (or at least think I know) that you've been taking instructor courses.... but is that pretty typical?

You'll need to Register first of course.

rob@rar, wow!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

It includes BASI courses, stuff at Hemel, a race camp and some private lessons in Les Arcs with a trainer I've used for a few years. No idea if it's typical, but it has been key to changing my skiing a huge amount in recent years.

After all it is free

rob@rar,

rob@rar, and what improvements have you seen?

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Hurtle,

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Chasseur, it depends on what you are trying to achieve and how you learn IMO. i could probably do with more lessons but i don't feel my technique holds me back too much. it is more my fitness and what's going on in my head

snow reports

You know it makes sense.

Chasseur, The ratio of hours tuition to weeks skiing presumably goes fairly steadily downwards for most recreational skiers. It has for me, not because I have fewer lessons than in the past, but because I do a lot of skiing (which isn't the same as doing a lot of improving, of course). In the past three years I have had about 34 hours tuition.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Chasseur, The real improvements come once you are able to mostly teach yourself, time spent in formal lessons becomes more efficient then as well.

A snowHead

rob@rar, well all of that is good, I should thnk? Love to have a ski some day, maybe with the flyingstantoni too?

A snowHead

rob@rar, I agree with everything you have said above Blush

But as you get older i find its better just to say F it and go straight, less turns, less energy huge fun Shocked

However I would not recommend this to everyone as a safe way of getting down the mountain, wink

;- and only do this when the slope below is clear wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm not overweight, but neither would I describe myself as fit. Being 'older', although I'm happy to be active, I find the idea of spending time at the gym etc. boring, and so am pursuing the technique route. I started skiing less than 3 years ago but have had lessons pretty much from the beginning and regular coaching sessions for the last year or so. The technique is definitely (slowly Toofy Grin

) improving and, as I commented to the OH after a day long coaching session last weekend, although I started the day feeling tired after the week's work, I didn't feel tired from the skiing at the end of it. I put this down to my improving technique making my skiing more efficient and less tiring snowHead

So, for me, improving technique seems to be overcoming lack of fitness! snowHead

You need to Login to know who's really who.

I ski well and with good technique (over 50 days of GOOD lessons) - however excess weight and lack of fitness hinders my performance... but because of good technique it doesn't show! Wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

You'll need to Register first of course.

There must surely be a huge variance in hrs of instruction v's improvement.
For example, the first formal instruction I'd had in years was in a smallish group and frankly, I didn't feel it helped me at all. However a 1 to 1 with the same instructor the following season caused a sea change in my skiing and quite honestly woke me up to what was possible. Further to that, I've had 1 to 1's that were merely 'interesting' while others seemed to just change everything! After an hour or two like that I'll find myself working on refining or ingraining what I've learnt for weeks subsequently. Taking it from the training environment of the blue piste, struggling to make it work on the reds, daring to believe it's even possible on a black (durr, of course it is!) and then trying to figure out when it's appropriate to use off-piste.

Over the past 7 Winters I've skied 4-7wks each season. Sometimes 'pootling' around looking after people, sometimes pushing myself to keep up. In all, I think I've averaged about 2-3hrs formal instruction per season Embarassed

However I am also most fortunate to have spent a good number of days in groups being guided around, off-piste by various mountain guides and instructors. While the focus of these days is not instruction, there will often be moments when we are offered advice about specific conditions or circumstances or a helpful suggestion about our technique may be proffered. Exceptionally, recently, I turned up on a heavy/crusty day on well tuned slalom skis (the guide had effectively challenged me the previous day rolling eyes

). It was the one day that we didn't do a warm up run or two on the piste (deliberate? Evil or Very Mad

) and I was having trouble adapting from the phats I'd been on all week. So we spent 20-30mins back on piste doing some drills to 'find the feel' - but I'd tend to count that in as formal instruction.
Often, in these circumstances, I'll be back-marking out of politeness but if the guide keeps taking off down the hill and no-one picks up his tail, I tend to regard that as a wasted opportunity and jump in. I have found that whether U know what you're doing or not, simply having an expert of such high calibre, in your field of vision as U ski, is enough to improve your own technique entirely unconsciously.

Contrary to yourself Chasseur, I've not really focussed on racing (although it's always great fun at the bashes), I've been more attracted to sliding down the metaphorical bannisters of off-piste. As a result, I'm comfortable on just about any [sensible] terrain now but still pretty rubbish through the gates.

The net result of all this? Well I tend to think my technique has improved substantially over this time and have all sorts of evidence [in my mind] to back this up. Those more qualified to opine on such things might say otherwise though and slightly disturbingly, Kitty offered me some advice at August's Ski Club which almost exactly echoed Easiski's comment as I crossed the line of the very first EoSB race - perhaps that's proof after all that I should have spent more time in ski school Confused

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

rob@rar,

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Started skiing at 37 y.o.
Doctor from resort(ski patrol trainer) tried to stop me from skiing as he thought it too dangerous. I apparently have nerve damage that results in poor feedback and hence poor control of movements. Takes me a long time to learn how to make a movement smoothly.

I had private lessons of necessity for my early ski years.
From 1997 until 2004 I skied 50-70 days each season (in Oz). I also spent 2 weeks in Whistler one summer.

So for 6-7 years I spent 2-6 hours a day in private lessons(occasionally friends came and shared with me) around 50-70 days a year.
I also spent summers doing training as ordered by my instructors - varying from stretches, strength building, balance work, learning to ride a bike, to learning to rollerblade and rollerblade lessons.

From that - my first real race (NASTAR) I was terrified(normal for me as I tended to be injured a lot as a child with undiagnosed movement problems) and had to be shoved out the gate - but got a silver medal. Next race I had a gold (top 20% in my age group)... now aiming for platinum(stay tuned I should get it this year I think) .

Have I got a lot more learning to do? - sure do
Do I consider myself an advanced skier - not really

I'm still taking lessons, learning and doing drills. I'm still making leaps forward every season I ski.

Summary - take lessons to learn. Don't bother if you don't care.

Help!!

Lessons - your experiences

snowHeads Forum Index >>> Bend ze Knees