Recommendations for USA

A snowHead

Can anyone recommend a good VFM resort in Colorado for a family ski trip?
I would prefer a lodge/chalet rather than hotel but having never skied beyond Europe (why would you, I hear!) I don't know what to expect.
Our group has mixed ability ranging from hardened black-run nutters to a complete beginner with and a 6 year old child.

Any recommendations much appreciated.

Adios,

Colin

A snowHead

ColinAger, welcome to snowHeads!

I'd recommend Winter Park as probably the best VFM in Colorado. It has a great beginners area, and plenty for the more adventurous.
Copper Mountain is worth considering as well, particularly on the price side, but it's not as expansive.

Where have you skiied in Europe?
When were you thinking of going?
For how long?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ColinAger, I'll second that about Winter Park. Great place.

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what is VFM

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I worked in Winter Park last year and would agree that it is a great place for the family. One big downside is that all the black runs, bar 1 (that's not very long) are moguls. The place prides itself on being the mogul capital of North America, and it's a bit of a pain for a lot of Brits, especially boarders. The only Brit company with a Chalet their is Crystal and that may well be sold out now, especially if you want a big group.

Copper is also very good and most tour operators get free lift passes for their guests.

Another place I would consider is Steamboat. Good all round but a 4 hour transfer from Denver.

Breckenrige is another good one, big area for America, mostly intermediate terrain - good nightlife for the States too.

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Thanks for your swift replies.

I am aiming for early Jan for 10 or maybe 14 days but this very much depends on price.
We usually head for the French/Swiss Alps as there is lots of good skiing but unfortunately over the last few seasons it's just been too busy and, dare I say it, some of the accommodation "worn out"; last year at Val Thoren was unbelievably bad.

This year we are looking for SPACE!

After all it is free

We did Keystone and I think that might be a good option for the family - the layout give the hardcore the chance to go into the 'outback', whils the front side of the mountain is great for beginners and learners. AFAIR, they also had snow shoeing and cross country leaning days for anyone not keen on simple downhill skiing / boarding. Good community feel, hot tubs, communal fire-pit, good bars and coffee / shops etc. Possibly a little "The Alps as envisaged by Disney" for some.
It is also within easy bus transfer of Breckenridge and A-basin for the more adventorous Its downside is that it maybe too constrained for a 14 day trip - we combined 1 week in Key with a week in Vail, with bus days to Breck and Beaver Creek for variety.

Direct flights to Denver can cost a bit more: we went via Chicago which took a bit longer, but was ~ £120 cheaper per seat.

Colorado is high, and can be cold. Don't let that put you off, just be prepared.

Condo space and quality was not an issue ( quite the reverse) in fact, the Intrawest apartment we stayed in there pursauded us to buy ITW in the Arcs 1950 village - and while it isn't quite US size, its is considerably better than the usual French offering - so if the US gets too pricey, you could always try the North American experience in France!

Steamboat might be a bit small for two weeks, too.

What about Aspen? Staying at Snowmass or farther up the valley to help with the costs, but places like the Pokolodi in Snowmass aren't too bad. There are many condos, too, that might make the per-person costs quite attractive. Four huge mountains all with free bus service.

Or stay in Frisco and use the buses to get to Copper, Breck, Keystone, and A-Basin. That's a lot of terrain for the US (not a lot for Europe, as I understand it).

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JimW, is there anything going on Keystone apres-wise? We went there for a day from Breckenridge. The skiing was fine, although the snow was past it's best (in April, so fair enough), but if there was anything much in the way of boozers or restaurants, we missed it. I liked the layout in Keystone; IIRC, 3 mountains, one behind the other, increasingly difficult as you move away from the parking lot.

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richmond,

I think it depends on which complex / grouping / village you end up in as to what is available - We were in River Run, where there was night skiing for a start, the whole of the front mountain side was open, which was fantastic, if a bit chilly. But certainly a reasonable choice of bars and restaurants: and for the immediate apres (4 - 6pm) there was the gas bonfire ( think home-based gas fireplace, on a graaannd scale) around which you could take your drinks from the local hostelries and enjoy the early evening while drying out your socks boots and clothes.

In Keystone Village itsself IIRC was the frozen lake which had ice-skating and a number of lakeside establishments which were great for watching the sun go down (pitchers of marguritas come through a hazy recollection!).

As I say, a bit disney-fied, and you did get the feeling, a la Westworld film, that there were banks of people watching CCTV making sure that everything ran smoothly ( "Oh oh, spotted a stray crisp packet on 1st and main, get a street cleaning unit out now!").

But yes, the layout is as you describe, and imho, works well.

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Sounds like skiing in the US is totally different to Europe, unless I've been goin to the wrong places!

How does the grading of piste compare at the top end; black runs, moguls, etc?

ColinAger, often N.American skiing is different from European skiing (not better, just different, in the hope of not turning this thread into a Europe v N.America debate). One difference is that it is unusual to a have a 'ski circus' a la 3 valleys or Porte du soleil; the skiing tends to be associated with one town (or none).

In many NA resorts, the whole area is skiable except where it's roped off; above the tree line, pistes often merge into each other across the slope, so you can start off on a tricky run and if it gets a bit hairy, potter across to something a bit milder. Outside the area, you're on your own; the resort takes no responsibility for you at all, as i understand it.

Usually although not always, in NA there are runs of different grades from the same lift, and there are probably fewer lifts than you'd expect in Europe. This can make it easier for skiers of different abilities/tastes to keep together.

I don't think that you can equate Euro grades to NA grades 1 to 1, as the grading varies from resort to resort, just as it does in Europe. It (in my experience) runs green, blue, blue/black (in some resorts), (single) black, double black. Some double blacks I wouldn't touch with a barge pole (just as there are Euro blacks I wouldn't) and others that would barely be a red in some Euro resorts or a blue in some NA resorts; just as in Europe, every resort has to have a bit of everything, even if it hasn't. Moguls are usually available, although I get the impression, and it may be wrong, that they're not so hung up on moguls as we are in Europe. There often seems to be lots of off piste, in bounds, tree skiing in NA resorts.

You know it makes sense.

ColinAger,

My wife and I have done two trips to Europe. Both were to Austria (Lech and Saalbach) so my impressions of "European" skiing are no doubt limited. And, there is no doubt tremendous variability both within and between skiing on the two continents, so I think any comparisons are prone to being overgeneralizations. With that caution, I'll share a few impressions.

As noted, ski resorts in the USA tend to be independent and unlinked. There is generally a single village (or in some cases, there is no village at all as the area serves day trip skiers). I can't think of anywhere in the USA where you might ski from village to village. As an example, there are 3 ski areas in Park City that could easily be linked, they are not.

The on mountain dining ritual and experience is generally quite different. In the USA, it's generally of the grab and go "I need something to eat" variety. It's burgers, fries, pizza, etc. There are exceptions. For example, Deer Valley has fantastic on mountain food. In Europe, on mountain food is more of a dinging experience. And, in general, there are lots more on mountain dining options in Europe.

Also as previously noted, lifts in Europe seem to serve a run or two. Lifts in the USA tend to serve numerous runs, often serving terrain suitable for skiers of different standard. On a related point, the pistes in the USA seem almost deserted.

The tree line is higher in the USA so much of the skiing is below tree line. This is a good thing in bad weather, but probably not for scenery.

I've thought the scenery in Austria was amazing! And I know that by reputation I've not seen the best of te Alps. I've not been to Lake Louise or Telluride (reputedly about the best scenery in NA) but the Alps are pretty damn majestic.

Lift tickets are much more expensive in the USA.

Lift lines are better organized in the USA, but I certainly didn't have a problem in Austria.

If you get hurt on the mountain in the USA, ski patrol will get you off the mountain, and you'll never be asked to produce an insurance card (provided you're in bounds).

In bounds in the USA includes lots of terrain that would be "off piste" in Europe.

Apres ski in Europe trumps anything I've seen in the USA.

As for trail grading, as noted, it's resort specific. In the USA, ratings are green (beginner), blue (intermediate), black (most difficult), and double black (expert only). My experience is that most greens in the USA are pretty gentle. Blues in the USA can range from pretty gentle to pretty steep (e.g., easy European blues to solid European Reds).

And finally, you're cheating yourself if you don't try both. It's all good!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

richmond, Keystone apre ski is in... Breck! Laughing

A snowHead

ColinAger, I think that RISkier is a bit unkind about NA food vs European food. True, the cosy mountain boozers of, for example, Austria seem largely (but not wholly) absent, and the top quality grub of the top few Euro mountain restaurants is harder to find (but it exists). However, the standard cafeteria fare of some Euro mountain restaurants is probably done better in NA, and cheaper. Unless you are a pretty serious luncher, I wouldn't worry about the grub (from my experience).

A snowHead

Spindrift, have you forgotten about the cirque?

there is a great deal of good advice here. IMHO, folks fret too much about where to go in the USA. Any major resort will provide a great experience. in the parlance of the younger set....it's all good.

as i have said all too many times, i settled to live and teach in winter park for a variety of reasons. the major criteria was the quantity and quality of snow. with the posible exception of silverton, if one considers historical averages, we get the most snow in colorado.

conor, would be a good person to speak about our place. he and his wife came last winter and are to be commended. they did it all. they set off bound and determined to ski every inch of the place. i think they also came to understand the mentality of the locals here which i compare to a small english village. no.....we don't have a great many apres possibilities. i can count perhaps a dozen. i have always said i only need one spot or two to hang my hat in the evening. i will also add that withen five minutes you will feel welcome.

we are heralded as north america's number 1 resort for moguls. we have a lot of choices in terms of bumps. we'll also teach you how to love the stuff.

if i can help with any questions about winter park let me know. send me a private message here or an e-mail at;

guyrb@msn.com

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I didn't forget the cirque, but it wasn't open that often last year and it's not the easiest place to access. Most Brits, on holdiay, aren't going to want to / be capable of walking a mile, at 3700m, for a 30 second descent, regardless of how great the snow is.

I know a new lift has gone in on the cirque this year, but I'm not sure if that's cut out the walking

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Spindrift, it's not a mile - maybe a 15 minute walk, but that's all. (and you can go in earlier or later if you want)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

This gives a view of the new lifts on the cirque:

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The South Headwall is where I've been.

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yes....one can drop into the cirque with no hiking. in addition, the new lift will provide lift service for the entire area. at a meeting last week we were told a new lift will be installed neft summer from the base of sunnyside to the summit with additional terrain opening on swede's ridge.

if spindrift didn't want to hike to the cirque there was always a lot of terrain open on the front side of parsenn that had great snow and was black terrain. ya just need to know where to go!

After all it is free

Hey guys, I had a great time in Winter Park, and skiied pretty much everywhere - but I still think a lot of the terrain you're talking about would not be best suited for a family group who only ski one or two weeks a year.

Now, once they decide to flatten out half the moguls of that Mary Jane you'll have a half decent resort!

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Spindrift, if they want groomed runs, stick to the blues and blue blacks. If they are colour conscious, then they need to learn how to ski powder, or go somewhere easier (sorry, more suitable for their ability)

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Spindrift, what did you do at the resort? the lack of groomed terrain was at the top of all my students list for why they love the resort. in december we received 144 inches of snow. that was 12 feet. you wanted to groom that!!!!!!

You know it makes sense.

If one were a half-decent skier who just wanted to cruise and put in a lot of mileage on endless corduroy pistes, then maybe Winter Park wouldn't be such a good choice. On the flip-side, if you are a half-decent skier with a sense of adventure who likes the challenge of serious moguls as well as LOTS of snow, then Winter Park should be on your shortlist.

I would say it's also a good family destination, in that moguls aren't the only thing to do at Winter Park. I skied plenty of easy beginner-friendly runs out there, many of which were groomed. IIRC they also put out maps of the runs that have been grommed that day; if that's not family-friendly i don't know what is.

As for the ungroomed stuff, it's amazing and I don't understand how people can criticize it. After all, we ski because we love snow, so who would want them to send machines up there to get rid of half of it

Puzzled

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I worked for a Brit tour operator that brought about 2000 guests into resort. I think most people like the opportunity to ski in powder and trees etc, but all I was saying is that WP has no difficult trails that aren't moguled. No need to get on your high horses, I know that WP has a mogul tradition, I'm just pointing out what people said to me!

A snowHead

Spindrift, it has difficult trails that aren't mogulled - they are powder runs. Get up early after a big dump, and many of the difficult trails won't be mogulled, but as the day wears on (if it stops snowing), then the bumps develop.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

None of these could really be described as trails, in the true sense, could they?

And let's face it, the real reason they don't groom Mary Jane is that they're too cheap to spend the money doing it!

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I can have some fun can't I! R u that chap that drives one of the buses around?

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no......dishwasher......had i been a bus driver i would have done 2000 british citizens a favor.

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After all it is free

Cheers to Snowbird or Salt Lake City as a destination. You'll have more than 5 first rate resorts less than an hour from your choice of accomodations in the city or stay at your resort, and those resorts are the kind that get 500" of very dry enjoyable powder a year.

Help!!

Recommendations for USA

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