 Poster: A snowHead
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Now, it's alright seeing Vin Diesel on tv (is he a wrestler?) but for it to be served with your chalet dinner is going overboard. For those of you who are short on French, I'm talking about the 'wine' that is served with your chalet food each evening on holiday. Why is it that Tour Operators insist on serving their guests Chateau Vin Diesel each night? Nothing is more guaranteed to ruin the Pasta Bake you've eaten for the third night running than some excretable liquid that passes off as wine! The last time I went on a chalet holiday (I think it was in the late 90's) we were served with copious amounts of this stuff from a huge Capri Sun style bag! It was truly horrendous, and I knew the chalet staff had a glint in their eyes when they were remarking that we could help ourselves as much as we liked to this truly vile concoction! It had a genuine acidic quality that wouldn't be out of place at B&Q. I think convicted graffiti artists are using this stuff to remove their scrawls from walls as part of their community sentence. Anyhow, have you had some truly horrendous experiences with chalet wine and if so, let us know. I sometimes wonder why they bother to include it with their dinners.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kevin mcclean wrote: |
| Why is it that Tour Operators insist on serving their guests Chateau Vin Diesel each night? |
erm, pretty easy question that: profits!
You'd be amazed at the budgets chalet hosts get to work with.... you are lucky they don't have a Caxton wine kit bubbling away in the cellar and are not turning potato peelings into a lovely after dinner night cap!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Only at a mates BBQ Kevin. Our host prodeced a bottle of red from a cupboard. It had already been opened, (origionally I thought only a few days ago) However on questioning later it turned out it had been opened 6 mths previous!!!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kevin mcclean, Wine is wine- stick some lemonade in it if its white or some coke in it if its red and drink it- because its FREE. Fair enough you've paid over the odds for it in your holiday price but there you go sods law
oh and PS Vin Diesel is veritable sex god/ actor (ever seen XXX/ Fast and the Furious ?- not a particularly good actor but he's hot!)
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kevin mcclean I always found the red quite palatable. I mean sometimes you had to warm up for a couple of glasses but usually you were already warmed up on beer (or g&t). Compared to the excretable liquid that is often passed off as beer it did rather well.
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kevin mcclean, .........perhaps change the chalet?
Never really noticed what it is they serve up but always seemed ok to me? Last trip to Italy I came across something that I can only describe like lemon flash type of alcoholic shot that the served up after dinner........vile, but we still drank it - it would be rude not to 
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If you know where to look there's very good cheap plonk all around the Alps . . . and does Nad's taste in men reflected her palate for plonk? ! !
Then having seen her recipes in another thread . . . the sad answer seems to be, very much so.
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brian
brian
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Get yourself down to the local Sherpa or whatever and stock up. You can get a bottle of Sancerre for about the same price as 2 big Kronenbourgs in a bar.
There's no excuse !
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brian
brian
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Incidentally, for the French based snowheads (tetes du neige?):
Anyone know a good wine seller that exports to the UK ? I'd have thought in these days of the single market we ought to be able to get it shipped over at reasonable prices.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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brian, no, you've got it all wrong. You're much better off spending the money in a bar - sure, its more expensive, but think of the atmosphere, the pretty ladies...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The 'free wine' with your dinner obviously went down well in the 1980's when the British palette stopped at Back Tower and Le Piat D'or but for Tour Operators to keep promoting it in the same way in the 21st century is a bit daft, don't you think? The rubbish they put in the brochures like 'enjoy a nice relaxing wine with your gourmet dinner after a hard day's skiing' is having a laugh, isn't it? There ought to be a £100 off for each client who opts out of having this 'paint stripper' with their dinner each night! Who are they trying to kid? We know that each week the chalet boy/girl has to go down to the local petrol station, sorry supermarket, to buy a lorry load of it and then has to put on an act when it comes to serving it! I bet they they thrust this stuff at the most annoying punter each night in bucket loads........
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kevin mcclean, you have a point about changing times and attitudes.
The daft thing is that if chalet companies bothered shopping around for the right supplier, they could get some good 'plonk' for a reasonable price, especially in France. The key difference we notice in wine is (for most of us I reckon) between bad wine and quite good wine. The difference between quite good and really good wine is often more a matter of personal taste, so most of us are quire happy with a middle of the road quite good wine - something the Australian wine producers copped onto, and why they produce high volume, consistent and quaffable wine.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, Theyre holiday recipes, i'll have you know I completed a very high brow cookery course in Paris ( who says my gap year was wasted) and if I want to cook I can- I just enjoy other people cooking for me much more!
And as for men- I like hot guys, what can I say?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 5-08-04 14:44; edited 1 time in total
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brian
brian
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Poster: A snowHead
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brian, preferably yes, but I am a fan of people investing in the industry generally!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| flying_squirrel wrote: |
The daft thing is that if chalet companies bothered shopping around for the right supplier, they could get some good 'plonk' for a reasonable price, especially in France. |
I think you are overestimating what big TOs are prepared to spend on your plonk. A friend of mine who ran the Andorran operation of a certain large TO I will not mention was paying something like 30 cents a litre for the wine served with dinner in their hotels. The brochure made a thing of the 'unlimited wine' offer. The wine was sourced in bulk from a farm in the north of Spain.
One winter he hired a manager who had previously worked for a posh London hotel and decided he couldn't give the billies the firewater they served up so he changed the supplier. At mid season my friend checked the hotel's bar takings. They'd dropped 50%. He then checked the wine bill which had tripled! It seemed the guests no longer had to run, mouths burning and eyes watering straight to the hotel bar to down a pint of lager before hitting the bright lights of Andorra.
Running a big TO is not like running some London consultancy or where-ever some of you guys work. You can't simply overbill your hours to make the books balance. Every penny counts. Profit margins and consequently budgets are tighter than a gnats chuff. If you up prices to buy better wine you will lose clients who will either go to a small, quality operator or, horror of horrors, travel independently. Package holidays are very price sensitive.
Now you could argue that quality suffers but the big TOs operate more or less as a cosy cartel. Everyone whinges about their package holiday but most end up booking with the same company and when they've finally had enough they just go to another similar firm so the TOs pay musical clients. Anyway as I told one guest, they holiday would be boring if there was nothing to whine! about back home.
The one thing I learnt is that although guests will whinge, bitch and moan they won't pay for quality and service. If they would they wouldn't be travelling with us in the first place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, I don't work for a London consultancy, I run a bar in the alps, thats why I know about the prices . EG, I could get my vin de table for the bar at roughly (I think it was 5% more expensive) the same price as a key chalet operator in my area, but mine was nicer (as I needed a certain quality to be able to sell it rather than give it away!).
As most chalets do not have (legal) bars, then increasing the quality of the wine at a minimal cost increase is not necessarily a bad thing I think. Its simple budget control, surely?
The problem with providing better quality wine for free is not that you can't get goodish wine at low prices, its that the customer will like it more, and drink more, hence it costs the company more. ( I think thats the point you were making, so I think I'm agreeing with you!)
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I agree, you can source decent wine, we do and every year we test the local suppliers to find the wine that we offer guests within our budget. it certainly doesn't cost cost cents per litre,. we know it's not chateau bottled but it is always a reasonable Vin Ordinaire and it's not difficult to find. I believe part of the problem is that chalet hosts are given a weekly budget which includes wine and most chalet hosts have no understanding of what constitutes decent wine. So, its a trip to the local Super U or Intermarche and buy whatevers cheapest. They have no appreciation of how it tastes because it's not part of their remit, which concentrates on food. Yet another reason to book with a small specialist oganisation that takes care to check out the details. We also provide a small list of local wines that clients can buy if the Vino Collapso is not to their liking. So far we haven't had any complaints about the wine we serve and to judge by the quantity we use it appears to be well received.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| flying_squirrel wrote: |
As most chalets do not have (legal) bars,
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Care to name some names?
At the two big tour operators I worked for (which covers around 50% of the UK chalet market) we used to spend the whole summer getting all the licenses up in order. That's what the little metal plaques above the chalet door were for. Of course we may have made mistakes in our applications for the required License IV.
This reminds me of an earlier thread about James Barrett Boyce and his 'illegal' chalet bar in Megève. Several people made the point that UK tour operators not complying with local legislation were presenting unfair competition to people who do. Surely you should complain about any illegal bars you know about?
Now I wonder what happened to JBB and Simon Butler's appeal. Weren't they going to the European Court?
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I'm also continually amazed that a lot of chalet companies simply get their food delivered from SuperU or Intermarche. 2 things wrong with this to my mind, firstly, if you look around you can get better prices by ordering your meat from wholesale butchers, your veg from wholesale grocers etc (who all deliver by default); secondly, when the likes of SuperU deliver, they always keep the best quality produce for the supermarket shelves, meaning that the chalet deliveries invariably get the soon-to-be-out-of-date lettuces etc.
When a company has more than 2 chalets in a resort, surely the economies of scale should be used to work more in their favour...
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davidof, most of the chalets I have worked for, with or stayed at have license 1, not license 4 - the cost of license 4 is surely prohibitive for anything other than the large chalet-hotels (Mark Warner type chalets). And most (French) communes have quotas for issuing license 4 (think its mainly a scam intoduced to allow back-handers to the mayor for issuing extra licenses!), which would make it difficult for them to all have license 4.
License 1 allows wine (and I think beer/soft drinks) doesn't it (not sure to be honest)? I would be very surprised to find that the majority of catered chalets had license 4 bars in them - and that would indeed cause the likes of me concern!
I'm not bothered about chalets stocking bottles of beer and selling them to earn extra cash - if people want to stay in their chalet and drink, they can bring bottles of vodka etc with them anyway. I find people come to the bar precisely because they want to have a few beers, play pool, enjoy a bit of banter - its not about price in that respect.
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You know what, I think all tour ops should send their chalet staff on a wine tasting course so that they can avoid the pitfalls of buying the aforementioned Vin Diesel from the Supermarche down the valley at the 'best' price. If I were a punter still into this sort of holiday, I'd be discerning about what wine passes my lips and would be prepared to pay 'a few dollars more' for something that can be tolerated by the human digestive tract! I appreciate the smaller outfits, as opposed to the big Tour Ops, can probably do a better job of this but a decent wine can really add to the pleasure of the evening; instead we get punters looking around the table at each, trying to be polite about the chalet host, convinced they've just downed mouthwash! To be honest, this is one of the reasons why I don't bother with tour operators anymore as I'd rather be in control of my own holidaying arrangements, even down to the wine that is supplied with dinner.
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I'm much more concerned about the quality of beds in chalets than the quality of wine.
You can very simply upgrade the latter by requesting that the tour operator reimburses its wine budget to you and going to the wine shop yourself.
Upgrading the bed is slightly more difficult.
If anyone would like to discuss beds, there is now a separate berth in which I've given birth to the subject.
Now, back to the whining...
Presumably there's no reason to complain if the chalet holiday price was low. Again, I think the food is vastly more important than the wine. You can easily change the wine, but you're probably stuck with the chef (like the bed).
On the whole I've been pretty satisfied with chalet holidays at low to mid prices. The main problem is the quality of conversation at dinner time, which tends to be English and insular. Some people in chalets don't even go out - they become the equivalent of suburban commuter-home-dwellers for the week (going off to the cablecar station instead of that nice little station at Tunbridge Wells).
Now, back to the whining....
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| flying_squirrel wrote: |
| davidof, most of the chalets I have worked for, with or stayed at have license 1, not license 4 |
Yes sorry, license 2, erm I think, for wine. It is a long time ago and the rules are a bit complex but in theory all was legit for serving wine with meals to guests. Still you are right there are restrictions on the number of cat 2-4 licenses available in a commune. Still I'm surprised there are so many chalets that don't bother with the license.
I'll have to pop up to your bar during the season sometime.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes it's backto the French legal system, all establishmants serving alocoholic drinks must be licenced, even if you don't charge for them. The view is that it's built into the price, hence DG's point about asking for a reduction. However, there is nothing to stop chalet operators giving wine away, as you would if you had a guest in your house. So sorry David, asking me for a reduction cuts no ice, apart from which I trust you wouldn't have any complaints.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| kevin mcclean, Wine is wine- stick some lemonade in it if its white or some coke in it if its red and drink it- because its FREE. Fair enough you've paid over the odds for it in your holiday price but there you go sods law |
Reminds me of the hotel bar in Val d'Isere when the wife (then girlfriend) asked for a spritza. the narmaid looked at her balnkly. When she explained, she got an even blanker look, followed by "I'll give you a white wine and a lemonade and you can mix zem if you wish!" - followed by a look of disgust that would probably normally follow a sexual advance from Bernard Manning.
I, of course, got hit for laughing too much. 
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| Quote: |
The main problem is the quality of conversation at dinner time, which tends to be English and insular
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OOOOooooo . . . I can hear a tongue firmly wedged in a very hairy buttcheek
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, I'll get some of my cheap wine chilled (or not, depending on the colour) for you
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David's right, Masque, about the quality of converstaion around the table in a chalet 'party'. It tends to be focused upon house prices, mortgages, careers and all the sorts of things that make the 'home counties', well, so predictable. I did manage, once, to get into a very interesting discussion with a north London lawyer about the culpability of large German corporations for their treatment of forced labour during WW2. Though this was deeply fascinating, especially because he had a direct connection, our discussion was treated with contempt by other members of the 'party' who were clearly not comfortable talking about such a subject. It's a shame that people feel so constrained about having to keep discussions utterly facile and superficial. I suppose the next time I opt to go for such a holiday I could always get a tee shirt printed proclaiming what job I have, what University I went to, the size of my house and the car I drive, etc....it's oh so important, isn't it, especially when you're on HOLIDAY!
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Poster: A snowHead
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kevin mcclean, just spent a week in a French Chambres d'Hotes-conversation much the same only in French-except for a discussion about the Iraq war, conducted in English for our benefit-however, I think they were a little disappointed when we agreed that George Dubya is a looney.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kevin mcclean, You should have been with me, spawn o'masque, and his mates in March at TraxVax - The description of how one of them caught thrush was just the start of a long week of wetting ourselves. Then there's the day when almost terminal flatulence closed a USAF Base - but that'll be saved for another dinner.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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At the risk of offending people, my strategy for avoiding home counties talk is to avoid home counties accents at all costs. The first day or two of the holiday are the most important - you need to listen out carefully for Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Geordie, West Country accents and run a mile whenever you hear anyone braying about house prices.
I may be prejudiced but I do get to enjoy my holidays. And I bet I'm not the only one to do this...
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Bloody Hell, Jonny-I do the same! Must be awful bumping into all of those yuppies in Val Despair, though.......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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With what i've made on my house this year, I can afford to buy my own chalet, wine and conversation............
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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So, we'll come round to your place, now what do you want talk about?
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The cost of school fees. Bloody disgrace. And the M25. It's like one big car park. How is your little place in Crusty-under-Monkfish anyway? You'll be hit if they make you pay full council tax. Wouldn't mind if the local shop had anything in it, but you just can't find quail's eggs in some of these places........
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Sounds familiar, if it's all the same to you we'll pass this time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Another drop of Blue Nun then?
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Only if you haven't got any Black Tower left.
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FAQ
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