 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm about to start putting together some off piste 'kit'. Having glanced at probes I see different lengths are available - it it the case of longer the better and does anyone have any recommendations ?
Also any recommendations for transceivers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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david@mediacopy,
As long as you can get in your pack....about 2mtrs is average but the collapsable lenght may be between 33cms and 40cms for that lenght
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cheers JT I'll pick some up.
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i remember speaking to someone about probe length last season when a mate was getting kitted out with it. as long as you can get was the main answer. but he did also say that if someones buried 2.5 meters in the chance of you digging that deep in time to get them was pretty slim. quite sobering really.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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frostie1861, That thought did occur to me, if they are that deep things are very bad indeed. I've just ordered some Black Diamond 'Super Tour 265cm' ones and a 'Deploy 3' shovel. It all sounds very impressive !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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david@mediacopy, make sure you get a shovel with a metal blade. Apparently the polycarbonate ones are useless.
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Metal shovel is a must and a digital transceiver (Tracker or similar) which you must go and learn how to use. Some resorts hold a weekly masterclass held by pisteurs. Also, it is no good skiing with all the kit if the people you ski with don't have and know how to use it!!
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Kramer, Powderhound, Metal according to the sales guy. We'll see. . . .
I plan to do the basi off piste module at some point, but will practice with mates who have had some training before hand. With luck I'll be able to find some local training as mentioned. I doubt in fact that I'll be doing much if any "back country" this season but thought I'd start getting the kit together for when I start to get into it more. I feel the need for helicopters . . . . . . .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I went for a 2.3m probe (7'6"). I bought it before I had ever tried sking however, it dated from climbing in Canada. Even a small powder slide within the confines of a gully can bury someone fairly deeply so we figured that we had better be equipped. I reckon that anything much shorter that this may be slower to use as you would be bending down to do any deep probing.
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I saw something on sky tv about an inflatable orange 'airbag' in a slim backpack that is deployed by pulling a ripcord type handle in the event of being caught in an avelanche.
The off piste ski guide whose life it helped save insists everyone in his group wears one as well as having other safety equipment on them.
The program made sense to me.
Employing any safety equipment that increases your chances of survival has to be taken seriously by everyone.
cc_7up
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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cc_7up, the item you mention works by increasing your surface area without increasing your weight - this has the effect of keeping you near / on the surface of the avalance rather than buried underneath it. Unfortunately the major drawback of it is that it costs a small fortune and is expensive to re-arm (i.e. after it has been inflated), which you may not have any problems with if it saved your life but are unlikely to be happy paying out for if it was deployed by accident.
If the price comes down and i find myself in the backcountry more often than not I might be inclined to purchase one, until then Im sticking with my digital transeiver, probe, shovel combo and ensure the rest of the group do the same.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ScottyGBR, And then you just try taking a compressed air cylinder on an aircraft!!!
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cc_7up, Inverse particle law apparently. They work and I'm getting one after last year's experience...
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You know it makes sense.
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To resurrect this topic for the same reasons as the OP im thinking about getting a probe which fits into the shovel :
http://www.facewest.co.uk/BCA-Companion.html
Downside is that it is only 180cm, is it long enough to be useful ?
Taemo
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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180 is certainly short but then again, given that a decent avalanche at rest could be 10s of metres deep, there are no rules. Given that the BCA probe and shovel are separate items that happen to fit into each other if the cost for a longer one is no more then it might be worth going longer. The only reason to store the probe in the shovel is for neatness or space-saving isn't it? I can't think of a safety reaosn for it...
Looks like a good sturdy shovel though. £110 sounds quite costly for the pair.
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Poster: A snowHead
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taemo,
Yes, it's a lot more useful than not having one.
If the probe fits into the handle of the shovel then it's not yet another piece of kit floating around in your backpack. I assume you're buying a transceiver or will hiring one when you go off piste. Make sure the shovel blade is metal, plastic will be completely useless when the snow is like concrete.
The most important thing is to learn how to use the transceiver. I believe that there are instructions about searching, using the transceiver, probing and digging on the BCA website.
Make sure the guide checks everyones transceivers before you set off and make sure your transceiver batteries are OK before you leave town.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hey, cheers for the reply
The pair is £69.99, dunno where you got the £110 
Yeah, well its mostly neatness and space in the pack, I cant get my head around carrying it all the time as most of my off-piste
is random spots from the lift when I see the opportunity. Its a topic im sure has been discussed many times on here, Im a 1
possibly 2 weeks or weekend a year skier. I have been venturing off-piste on the edges of piste/trees for a while and mostly
with instructors/guides (who dont carry the HT). However last weekend I was away and met a guy who was carrying all the time,
me and my friend felt very irresponsible skiing with him and not carrying.
I need to have a look/feel with the packs and shovels in a shop really, I currently ski with a camel back on all the time anyway
but I dont want something massive on my back causing problems on the lift. However what is the point in carrying stuff if it cant
do the job when needed.
Like you say it isnt going to be much difference to have the pole separate, but I am thinking is 60cm, really going to make the difference!
Also, I see these fancy packs with a spine protector in, im thinking with a nasty hard piece of metal on my back I might be better off
with one of these. Especially if im practising switch! .
Cheers
Taemo
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As for the length of a probe, I personally think that 2.5m is long enough, the 1.8m probe that I have has never been used in anger for finding bodies, but it has proved long enough for finding old snow holes that can be re-used instead of digging a new one 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yeah, im looking to buy on of the pieps transceivers
http://www.facewest.co.uk/Pieps-DSP.html
And start to learn how to use it. I have been to a avalanche talk in the UK and I have a few website/books lined up
to read up on how to get it right. Plus there is always opportunity to practice on arrival in resort!.
Just feel its about time, its not like im honestly going to convince myself to stay on piste from now on!
Taemo
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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mark handford, so are you saying sack off the neatness/space saving and buy the long separate one?
I dont actually know yet, how much use a probe is in the final stage of a rescue is, if its something that you will
always do to finally locate the burial then it makes no sense to compromise.
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taemo, No, Im saying my personal opinion is that 2.5m is the longest I can see being useful for a personal (not rescue) probe and that I have the 1.8m one thats stores in the handle.
Its better to have some sort of probe if you going to the effort to take a shovel.
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I've got the BCA tour combo. I'd say DON'T get the probe.
Two niggling problems are the length and the fact that it's a bit more fiddly to extend and lock. One HUGE problem is that to get it out of the shovel handle you need to remove the spring that locks the shovel blade to the shaft and pull the probe out on a bit of wire before putting the spring back in and then locking the shovel back together.
The spring is incredibly droppable, being a small bit of metal a few inches long. That would leave you with an unassemblable shovel.
The probe and wire iteslf can foul the spring, making it impossible to remove the spring, hence you have a shovel, but no probe.
Regardless of the fact that I never intend to have to use it, the probe now lives in an old sock attached to my shovel handle by elastic bands and, if I have a spare 40 quid, I'm going to get the basic ortovox 230cm one from facewest instead. The shovel itself seems pretty good, and very light for all metal.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i guess the question is how deep a hole can you dig in 20mins or so?
1.8m seems a bit short and I don't like the idea of not finding my mate because I was too tight/lazy to buy and carry a longer one. I carry a 3m probe which, I will admit, is probably overkill
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Cunners, I have found the whole tour shovel and probe in the handle fine, I use it on a very regular basis over the winter months when Im running courses, I supose I have got used to removing the handle and taking the probe out as well as putting it all back together again. If you lost the spring Im sure cable ties would fix it in an emergency along with some duct tape thats in your repair kit 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmmmm I have almost been put off the Tour by Cunners, posts, didnt think about the faff when you need it most. However I guess I will be practising with it a lot so I will get used to it.
Like the look of the shovel tho.
So what a peoples thoughts about landing backwards on all this kit, is a spine protector in a pack actually going to help at all ?
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taemo, yep, those babies'll snap your spine in two....just try to keep your weight forward 
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You know it makes sense.
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A shovel blade makes a great back protector as long as it is flat along the backboard of your sack. I have a da kine back pro that I wore for racing but don't bother now.
I added the shovel - £69.99 and the probe - £40 together. Did I do bad??
I don't like the idea of fiddly springs and release catches. In my experience it is always best to go simple...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Skiing switch?? Why would you bother?
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Poster: A snowHead
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taemo, in all seriousness, as Powderhound says they don't seem to hurt too much...though if I'm carrying a spare layer or something soft I'll always try and put it between the shovel and my back.
I've got a BCA Companion set as well, and I agree it sounds a little fiddly, but I can't say I've ever had a problem. If you were worried about dropping the spring thingy you could always try attaching it to the shovel handle.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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taemo,
The off piste kit is only any use if you're skiing with other people who are equipped with the kit and you all know how to use it. You shouldn't ski off piste on your own because you can't rescue yourself when you're buried. I haven't read the detailed report but I think the person who has just been killed i9n an avalanche in Switzerland was skiing alone and they haven't found the body yet.
I too have the BCA shovel/probe combination, practice deploying it and repacking it a few times before you need to use it. The metal spring mentioned in previous postings is 2.5 inches long and has a 3 inch "cord" attached to it which you use to pull the spring out, it's hard to lose. It is a bit trickly reassembling the probe into the shovel handle and putting the spring back. That's why you practice it beforehand and there's no urgency when you're reassembling it after your search.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hm mine's cordless. I've been diddled!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cunners,
Just make up own loop or lanyard to the end of the spring that sticks out of the handle but make sure it fits when you assemble the shovel handle to the shovel blade.
You may have a different system to mine?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'll have a tinker! Now just got to remember which bag i left it in...
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To put it into perspective, compacted snow, such as avalanche debris, weighs about half a ton per cubic meter. To rescue somebody buried 2 meters down, you'd need to shift around 2 tons of snow (for a hole 2 meters deep by 2 meters long). You'll have about ten minutes to do so, assuming you can locate the victim using an ARVA and probe in about 5 minutes.
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Patch, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Just don't f**k around waiting before probing/digging like a loon...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
