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ASSI etc. [NEED SOME HELP RE. INSTRUCTING]

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well, I'd like to become a ski instructor, I'm a good enough skier and all that, but I've got absoloutely no idea how to go about it, and I wondered if you guys could be of some help.

The instructors that tought the guys at XSCAPE, CAS won't be back until at least Spring as they're abroard now.

So yeah, I was advised to go to Andora and do a 4 day course or something, but I haven't a clue just what I need to be doing.

If anybody could give me some guidance, I could make a start, t'is just getting my feet on the ground with it =]]
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jono, do you want to be an ASSI or a snow instructor? (or possibly both?). If the former get yourself along to your local dry slope and ask the folks there. If you want to do it on snow - well you have a number of options, but if you aspire to a recognised qualification (i.e. something that's actually useful) then I suspect none of them will come cheap.

And if you want to know about these "be an ASSI in a week" courses don't ask me because I don't believe in them, what with being 900 years old etc. Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Jono, lots of info on the BASI website.
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I only want to get a qualification that allows me to teach indoors at XSCAPE.

So no, nothing fancy nor expensive.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
2 main routes open to you:

1. Do a Club Instructor Course (CI) - get 20 hours min shadowing experience, get signed off by a SSE or SSS coach, teach using your CI qualification, then train for your ASSI.

http://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/becoming_an_artifical_slope_instructor-822.html


2. Go to Andorra and do a CSIA Level 1 course.

http://www.instructor-academy.com/
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Jono, For ASSI - look here http://www.snsc.demon.co.uk/courses/assi.htm....... same qualification as the SSE one.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Jono, The CI / ASSI are worth doing as they will help you develop your instructing skills without having to travel to the Alps. It will help when you come to do a BASI or CSIA course.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Jono, 'nother thought - speak to the instructors at Cas ? They'll let you know how they did it and how you can get involved ....

There may be other jobs you can do there whilst sorting out a teaching qualification.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Jono, Deffo speak to the peeps at Cas if that's where you want to teach. they will tell you what qualification you need to teach there. many slopes have different requirements. You probably wouldn't need to be more than a BASI 3 at the top end though, but that would take 2 years. Smile
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Jono, I did my Snowsport Scotland ASSI course at Castleford & I believe that they run regular courses their. Speak to the Marketing Mgr at Xscape re the dates.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Just made some calls to various people, bottom line is I cannot legally teach until I am 18.

I was tempted to go and do the ASSI course next week at MK, but there's no point in waiting 9 months until I can use the bloody qualification and get teaching.

Thanks ever so much for your help guys, at least I know where I stand now, I'm going to start shadowing as much as possible from now on =]]

Sucks to be a young 'un eyy.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Jono, I think you can still do the course even if under 18. The Snowsport Scotland course is recognised by BASI, allowing you to miss out some of their courses later on.....
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well that's bollocks for a start, you only need to be 16 to be a Club Instructor with SSE. Most dry / indoor slopes in England recognise this qualification and will let you teach up to a Plough Parallel with this.


If you're quick you can get in on the following course, if there are still places left:

++++++++++++++++



2 Day Course - Club Instructor Training Course

Date: 11th and 12th November 2006

Venue: Tamworth Snowdome, Staffs

Contact: Sue Hughes on 01827 308403 or Snowdome on 08705 000011

Cost: £160 to include lunch and coffee


This course will be held predominately on skis and will address:

- safety considerations
- the basic principles of instructing
- examples of instructional activities
- examples of teaching methods

Emphasis throughout the course will be the SAFE introduction of beginners to skiing on artificial slopes.

Candidates must be 16 years and over to start their training.

A COURSE WORKBOOK IS SUPPLIED TO EACH CANDIDATE ON THE FIRST DAY TOGETHER WITH RELEVANT PAPERS AND CRB FORMS TOGETHER WITH CRB FORMS.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Yes, I could do the course, but I wont be able to work for XSCAPE as a ski instructor until I am 18.

Is it worth becoming a Club Instructor if I can only teach for the Lions, which is something I'd rather stay away from wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Jono,

Quote:

Is it worth becoming a Club Instructor if I can only teach for the Lions, which is something I'd rather stay away from


Unless there is something very odd about Lions, the emphatically no ! The way you learn to teach people to ski, is, er, to teach people to ski.... so the sooner you start the better.

On the downside, the CI course isn't too expensive, so if it turns out that it isn't you cup-of-tea.......
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jono, If you have the time and the cash, do the CI course anyway. Because you need to shadow a min of 20 hours before you can teach, it won't be wasted.

Most over 18's I know do the CI course, but then get employed straight away teaching as a Candidate Club Instructor. Which doesn't count towards their shadowing hours. So they never in fact get enough of their shadowing hours to qualify for the CI award proper, or for the ASSI.

PS; What's unappealing about the Lions? Just curious from your point of view?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Jono wrote:
..........if I can only teach for the Lions, which is something I'd rather stay away from


Come on, you know you want it!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
[quote="veeeight"]Well that's bollocks for a start, you only need to be 16 to be a Club Instructor with SSE. Most dry / indoor slopes in England recognise this qualification and will let you teach up to a Plough Parallel with this.

OK, let me put you straight.

I have just finished coaching the Snowsport England Club Instructor course at hemel Ski Centre.
The Requirements are: Snowlife level 6 skier.
First aid certificate
Attend club instructor 2 day training course
20 hours min. supervised instruction
CRB check
Min age 16
obtain log book & membership
Be signed off by SSE placement coach & Ski school manager
Can only teach up to Plough-Parallel
Club Instructor qualification is only valid at the home slope.

Snowsport England ASSI:
Must hold either Club Instructor, or home nation ASSI or BASI
Attend ASSI training weekend
20 Hours suppervised
Obtain log book & membersip
1 day ASSI assessment |Pass/Fail
First aid cert
be signed off by SSE placement coach
CRB check
Min age 18
Can teach advanced level at any artificial slope indoor snow or plastic
Snowsport Scotland ASSI:
5 day course with constant assessment (technically cannot fail but further work may be required to meet Pass standard)
20 hours min supervised
be signed off by SSC trainer
First aid cert
Min age 18
SSE Membership
Can teach advanced level at any artificial slope indoor snow or plastic.
Gives exemption from BASI foundation course and therefore direct access to BASI ski instructor, provided SSE Trainer has recommended, 70 hours logged teaching experience & first aid cert.

Hope this clarifies the possible routes.
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veeeight wrote:
Jono, If you have the time and the cash, do the CI course anyway. Because you need to shadow a min of 20 hours before you can teach, it won't be wasted.

Most over 18's I know do the CI course, but then get employed straight away teaching as a Candidate Club Instructor. Which doesn't count towards their shadowing hours. So they never in fact get enough of their shadowing hours to qualify for the CI award proper, or for the ASSI.

PS; What's unappealing about the Lions? Just curious from your point of view?


I am shocked that Candidate Club Instructors are being allowed to teach unsupervised, they are putting themselves and the slope at serious risk because they would not be covered by their Instructor Liability Insurance, should the unfortunate happen. plus what quality of instruction is being offered to the paying public? The Instructors I can maybe understand, wanting to teach before being qualified and not being aware of the Insurance situation. However ignorance is no excuse. For the slope to allow that is shocking and they deserve every punishment, should an accident happen.

I don't know anything about the 'Lions' but you have seemed to answer your own question, as to what's unappealing.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Spyderman, good summary. For additional info, I always refer back to http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=117905#117905. A fourth tier can sort of be created with a degree of equiv between ASSI/BASI trainee/CSIA I.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
The SSC ASSI used to up until 2 years ago give exemption from CSIA 1 and direct access to grade 2 but no longer, you now have to go through level 1 first. Of course BASI trainee is not a qualification to teach, just a certificate that says you're at the required entry standard for the BASI instructor course. When & if Snowsports GB ever get their act together and standardise all of the home nation qualifications, under a system managed by BASI the better. there is to many individual power struggles going on within the home nations to agree at the moment.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would guess that Jono doesn't want to teach for Lions as it would mean getting there for 8am on a Sunday and working unpaid.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
^true.
Embarassed
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

When & if Snowsports GB ever get their act together and standardise all of the home nation qualifications, under a system managed by BASI the better


never gonna happen. BASI want to own the intellectual property for courses developed by others. Also, many people fear that BASI will price the part time or volunteer CI level instructors out of the market.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Georgio,
Quote:

never gonna happen. BASI want to own the intellectual property for courses developed by others. Also, many people fear that BASI will price the part time or volunteer CI level instructors out of the market.


I think the Club Instructor level will dissappear anyway, it has never existed in Snowsport Scotland anyway. It is only valid at your home slope, and more and more artificial slopes are requesting the minimum of ASSI standard anyway. Maybe though insurance requirements or the need to offer a better standard.
It seems lunacy to me, that we need so many different agencies to run skiing in a lowland nation. The change must come, but not until the people involved start talking and offering some compromise.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
[b]Spyderman[/b[
quote]
It seems lunacy to me, that we need so many different agencies to run skiing in a lowland nation
[/quote]

Yes it is odd isn't it ?

Not sure that giving BASI any more responsability is the way forward tho rolling eyes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I think the idea is to make BASI responsible for the setting, running and administration of snowsport qualifications in the UK. To combine the BASI Trainee Instructor level with the ASSI qualification, would'nt be such a bad thing. BASI are respected worldwide and have a proven system for running courses and administering qualifications, it makes sence to use their expertise. I know the number of home nation systems that we have in place is based on the way Snowsports are funded in the UK, but surely this could be sorted.
At the moment in the UK, starting from the lowest level, you probably join your home nation, pay the subs, then as you get better you join BASI, pay their subs, and then what you are paying 2 lots, or give up the Home one. It's crazy.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Spyderman, Happy with one body to manage qualifications....not sure about BASI doing it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ski,
Quote:

Happy with one body to manage qualifications....not sure about BASI doing it.

Why not? Who else is more qualified than BASI?
BASI is the only is UK instructor qualification recognised worldwide. The infrastructure is already in place and it would give instructors at all levels a clear path in their career, rather than jumping from one governing body to another.
I take on board the need for an inexpensive first step qualification, for use by part-time artificial slope instructors, around the £250-£300 mark.
Having this should avoid the number of people opting for the CSIA route.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Spyderman,
Quote:

I take on board the need for an inexpensive first step qualification, for use by part-time artificial slope instructors, around the £250-£300 mark


I think it needs to be a bit cheaper than that..


Quote:

Having this should avoid the number of people opting for the CSIA route.


Why ?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Quote:

I take on board the need for an inexpensive first step qualification, for use by part-time artificial slope instructors, around the £250-£300 mark



I think it needs to be a bit cheaper than that..


Really?? Every kid I know has an XBox/PS2/PSP/etc, all of which are more expensive than that. You dont get paid for using an xbox and if it were much cheaper then I suspect you may be just lining it up alongside peoples bronze swimming badge and their sunday five-a-side trophy. A tad flippant perhaps but hey, you get where I'm coming from wink
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
£250 -£300 is about the cost of doing Scottish ASSI, it shows commitment without being too expensive,and it can be done in UK, on an artificial slope ,as against £360 odd for BASI trainee, which gives you no qualification to teach, plus you've got the costs of accomodation, lift passes, getting there, etc. That's why folks do CSIA level 1, because it's as cheap as doing an ASSI qualification, plus the getting there costs,etc, with the benefit of a usable, if limited snow qualification.
I'm not saying don't join the CSIA, after all I am a member, it's a great system, but the learning system is different and does not translate instantly to the central theme BASI system.
If there had been a BASI qualification equal to the CSIA Level 1/ASSI at the time I would have taken it. Why go to Canada/Andorra to do a qualification which should be available at home.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Why on earth would you want anything to transalate to a BASI Central Theme? (which was originally bastardised from the PSIA system anyway) wink
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What has the PSIA got to do with the CSIA?
CSIA do not use the BASI progression of the Plough-Parallel phase, they use Plough Serpentine straight into parallel. So if you're thinking of becoming a BASI Instructor enabling you to work in France, this is possible once you've passed your Test Technique. The alternative in CSIA is to continue onto Level 3 ISIA before you'll be recognised.
If you just want to work in North America, Andorra or Artificial Slope then the CSIA is just fine, at their lower level qualifications.
The bottom line is if you want a BASI qualification you must use the Central Theme.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I never mentioned CSIA and PSIA in the same sentence in my post.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
veeeight, You responded to my previous post comparing BASI with CSIA, that's why i asked what the PSIA has to do with it.[
quote]
Quote:
Do a Club Instructor Course (CI) - get 20 hours min shadowing experience, get signed off by a SSE or SSS coach

[/quote]
The Club Instructor Qualification is administered by Snowsport England only, therefore only a Snowsport England Coach can sign off competance. There is no such qualification under Snowsport Scotland.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Most potential BASI candidates I know consider themsleves to have been priced out of the system. They are going the CSIA-route instead: cheaper, quicker, and (in practice) more widely accepted. The latest BASI news seems to acknowledge this with the comments on "foreign" competition.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I merely wondered that if you already had a "foriegn" qualification, why you would in practice want to translate that teaching methodology into a BASI central theme. Having an intermediate plough parallel stage isn't necessarily a mandatory step in producing good parallel skiers.

My next comment about PSIA is meant to be ironic - the BASI teaching methodology heritage line actually comes from a bastardised version of the PSIA system - therefore to transalate anything back into the Central Theme would be a double dutch transalation back into North Americano continento.

And thanks for going back 31 posts and 2 months to correct my understanding of SSS, much appreciated. wink
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
All I was saying is there is a difference in the teaching methods between BASI & CSIA. I don't know anything about the PSIA, I have never been to the USA only Canada. Sounds like there must also be the same differences between the PSIA & CSIA.
I did the CSIA qualification, initially because there was no cost effective BASI alternative. I am not dissapointed with having done it, there are some valuable things in their teaching that are not covered by BASI, and vice versa.
I live and mainly work in the UK. Our home nation should respond to the demand for the qualifications, at an affordable price, that other nations, like Canada, are providing.
I corrected your understanding of the signing off system, so that anyone reading the thread in it's entirety would not get the wrong info, it was not some sort of personal dig.
I would be interested on your thoughts though on unqualified, uninsured, Candidate Club Instructors taking lessons at the Lions.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
It's wrong, but it happens across slopes up & down the country.

I never did allude that it happened with The Lions, nor just at Castleford.

But I do know know that there are many Candidate CI's teaching the public.
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