 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This is an interesting thread. It seems to me we are saying there are two camps. One - happy with what they can do, and the other - always wanting to improve. Which group is likely to be happier ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ski wrote: |
| This is an interesting thread. It seems to me we are saying there are two camps. One - happy with what they can do, and the other - always wanting to improve. Which group is likely to be happier ? |
I think there is a balance on this point in my skiing experience.
I am happy with my skiing, but am always eager to learn something new.
I'd say I'm advanced.
When I get to ESA and ski with the likes of cgeib, phil, fox, comprex, and others, I'm sure to be put in my place quite adequately.
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ski, I'm extremely happy with the level I've reached, because with my disability, I'd never thought this would be possible, let alone in such a short time.
However, despite the fact that I'm a 6 week skier, and therefore likely to think I know it all (  ), I'm actually very conscious of just how much experience I lack, and how much more I have to learn in every department. I wish I could just be content to be one of those folks who just enjoy getting down however they can, and pootling from bar to bar. I can't be content with this, when I can see better skiers than me everywhere I look.
So, there is a balance between being content and wanting to improve. That is the nice thing about skiing - you can actually do both, at least some of the time!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Of all the sports I do, I'm never totally happy with my performance.
You can always do things better and for some reason I always want to.
I'm enjoying the ride though 
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The better I get, the more I realise how much further room for improvement there is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| The better I get, the more I realise how much further room for improvement there is. |
Likewise...
learning more only inspires me to want to learn even more...
and HEY I actually get a kick from working and practising and challenging myself and GETTING BETTER...
I have been described as a sponge for learning... and have to confess it is true...
I have no understanding of those who avoid the tough lessons because they "want to have fun" because i never have so much fun as when learning new stuff... my best days on skis have involved a bunch of friends and everyone breaking through into new ground... viva la difference... because I LOVE improving and Im not giving it up any time soon... Those that avoid lessons make it easier for me to book them or grab a group lesson that becomes a private ... let 'em have their fun! 
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The more experience I gain, the more inexperienced I realise I am. Takes me a little while (and experience) to get comfortable with each step. My main problem is that I have yet to find the happy medium of confidence without crossing into complacency - and things go wrong when I get complacent (not just with skiing, with driving, work etc. too).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Not much mention of the word "talent" yet. Some people can make more progress in say 4-5 weeks than others can in 20 or more. People also tend to reach a limit and that can happen sooner or later depending on their capacity to learn, application, and again, "talent". As with most other sports it also helps massively if you learned young. You can always tell skiers who learned to ski as a child. They usually look simply more relaxed and natural, even if they've picked up bad habits along the way. Skiers learning later in life have a much harder time making their actions second nature. I think this applies to pretty much any sport.
The other classic activity that people (blokes) tend to overestimate their skill level in is driving. Do a few laps of a race track with a top level professional racing driver and you'll soon realise how cr@p you really are.
The basic problem for most skiers (including myself) is not getting enough quality snow time. I'd love to ski every week all year round, but it just isn't practical [sigh]
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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For me pushing myself has two consequences-
Firstly it pushes the envelope of the terrain that I can ski, so that what seemed too steep to contemplate last year, seems more manageable this year. This increases my enjoyment because it gets me going to places on the mountain that very few other skiers go to, which not only means glorious isolation (there's no better feeling than the only skiers in sight being your friends on a glorious day), but also a better chance of cutting fresh tracks. I always think it's a bit of a shame when I hear skiers who don't want to progress to skiing off piste, because at the risk of sounding a little patronising, they are missing out on something really special and once it "clicks" there really is no turning back. I will admit that this is the zealousness of the fairly recently converted.
The second is that it increases my level of comfort with the stuff that I can already do. I can honestly say that I can't remember the last time that a black run held any fear for me, because when I look down them these days, they just don't look that steep. Being released from that residual fear gives the confidence to start using the terrain features, rather than merely navigating past them, which adds a whole new dimension to the fun that can be had. Even cat tracks start to be a whole lot of fun when you're carving rather than skidding down them.
| bucking bronco wrote: |
| beware the guy who says "I'm alright I suppose" and turns up the next day with Seth Pistols! |
with telemark bindings. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bucking bronco, gung-ho male intermediates are the most frightening skiers on the mountain!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bucking bronco wrote: |
The best skiers I've skied with have been totally low key and humble about their abilities - beware the guy who says "I'm alright I suppose" and turns up the next day with Seth Pistols!  |
Don't disagree, but wouldn't it be nice if people were just straightforward about their skiing abilities, neither disingenuously underplaying nor boastfully exaggerating? I mean it isn't difficult to answer in a manner that is appropriate to the usual context of this question - ie how good are you compared to the average holiday skier? (as opposed to how good are you compared to fellow instructors or FIS racers)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Michelle, I only speak the truth - of course some peeps don't like that!
slikedges, Well yes - but if someone says "are you a good skier", they may not mean in relation to holiday skiers, so if you think you're an OK skier, that's what you say. However the problem is that many (mostly men - sorry) have hugely inflated ideas of their own ability! If someone asks me if I'm a good skier, I assume they mean in relaation to other instructors - not holiday skiers. In that case the answer might be something like "not bad for an old wifey" or something like that - which would be the truth. However that wouldn't be being disingenuous.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, only if you know they know you're an instructor. Many people are disingenuous when it comes to their non-professional skills, particularly where they know they'll get the opportunity to show off their true level...
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| slikedges wrote: |
| Don't disagree, but wouldn't it be nice if people were just straightforward about their skiing abilities, neither disingenuously underplaying nor boastfully exaggerating? |
That assumes people actually have a clear idea of their own abilities (I'm sure I don't as it can depend on mood, health, whether everything is "firing" correctly etc etc etc)
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I just think the more you ski, the more you realise how good you aren't and its far better to understate your abilities than to get dragged off somewhere and make a total t*t of yourself by being out of your depth.
After you have mastered or got hold of a few techniques you can look forward to some quite exciting terrain but the good guys will ski it at a very uncomfortable speed and its no joke being tail-end charlie as you end up always playing catch-up. You try to go faster and the others are trying to go slow enough...you speed up and they get a move on...!!!!!
This is what I call out-of-your depth. And a recipe for disaster, IMV
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eng_ch, no problem with people getting it wrong. I've been on performance coaching courses where people who thought they were pretty good literally cried in disappointment and shame when they saw what they looked like on video and even went so far as to accuse the vidman of somehow being responsible for what they were seeing. No, I just mean people who are boastful and those who are falsely modest - just as bad as each other imnsho.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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THEORY: True high level skiers need less of an apparent ability gap between themselves and an instructor/clinician/coach to be able to learn from them.
whaddya think? useful for self diagnosis?
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comprex, a WC skier and his coach
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, High level skiers can learn from peeps not as good as them - I'm always picking up useful bits and bobs from my students!! OK - not usually technical, but in terms of how to think of something etc. I particularly liked a snowboarder learning to ski, who, when he got in a good position said "oh - the brakes are there" and pointed to just in front of his bindings. How true, and it's amazing how many peeps relate to that, but I'd never thought of it....
slikedges, I think JT, has hit the nail on the head - you can't related yourself to the average holiday skier, only to the people you know and ski with. the more you know, the more you realise there is to learn, and that you still have a long way to go - hence in many cases the apparent false modesty. However it is nice to put a stupid boastful skier in their place - Like Paul McK with his stupid girlie in December!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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slikedges, averages irrelevant on power curve graphs as you have to know the tail is finite as a separate step.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, sorry, I don't subscribe to the opinion that you are only any good at whatever if they're showing you on the telly
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, neither do I if we define 'any good' as 'not bad'. If you look at a power law graph, there is a cusp and we can fairly assign 'not bad' to anything beyond it. That still doesn't help with terms like 'average' which are only relevant within selected sub-intervals.
Put in another context, if you met someone at the shindig of the equivalent Master's circuit, it is a subsample where 'average' can have meaning. Otherwise not.
| slikedges wrote: |
| easiski, I don't agree. If I met you at a dinner party and didn't know you from Carlotta and I asked if you were a good skier, I'd expect you to come clean. |
See, that to me almost means that one can ask strangers whether they're any good, and expect to hear a curriculum vitae. Sorry, strangers aren't entitled to mine.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 31-12-06 17:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| comprex wrote: |
| slikedges wrote: |
| easiski, I don't agree. If I met you at a dinner party and didn't know you from Carlotta and I asked if you were a good skier, I'd expect you to come clean. |
See, that to me almost means that one can ask strangers whether they're any good, and expect to hear a curriculum vitae. Sorry, strangers aren't entitled to mine. |
Not entitled to mine either, but that's from the viewpoint of the respondent. In the context of a friendly social situation, from the viewpoint of the innocent questioner, that's a bit churlish if not harsh - you know what they're asking, is it so difficult to give a straightforward answer?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Straightforward, no. Meaningful, useful, accurate and complete, yes. If I'm good at finding common referents I might be able to ditch two of those four and remain sociable and friendly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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slikedges, It's difficult to give a straightforward answer because there isn't one. I'd probably say something along the lines of "pretty fair". I would not want to EVER say I was a good skier - suppose you were a WC racer?? I wouldn't know. I don't like to fill in "expert" in the tick boxes either, but I know from experienced that when they say "advanced" it isn't!
that's the whole point of this thread isn't it? The ones who say they're good aren't (generally). I always warn my beginners that if someone's boasting in the pub and trying to make them feel small, they're almost bound NOT to be good skiers, because if they were they wouldn't bother!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, We'll have to agree to disagree! Oh course if the person was getting up my nose I might react differently.
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slikedges,
Thats what we are saying, its all relative...but if you talk yourself up too crudely, ski-wise, you can find yourself in real bother..or you walk off with your tail between your legs. And I can't see the point in either of those options
I generally say, I've skied a bit and let others make up their minds, but its not a competition to me, its about enjoying the day with like minded souls.
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FAQ
)? That gives an indication of where average is, from where it's possible to guess at what the asker may consider good, very good or excellent.
, if someone random asked me how much I knew about medicine, and I wanted to be straightforward (see interchange with 