Poster: A snowHead
|
Just wondering if anyone skis or is planning to ski purely with a soft shell to cover all eventualities, or do you still carry a fully waterproof outerlayer for these real nasty days?
Cheers,
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It's the same old story I guess, horses for courses. I'm happy to ski in a soft shell if I'm having a play day on piste with the missus, teaching, but anything off piste I've got the hard shell on, no matter what the conditions. It's what's under it that varies.
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I tend to always carry a hard shell too but don't often get it out of the backpack. I think a lot depends on how windproof your softshell is. Certain manufacturers offer a combination of part soft shell part hard shell, maybe this offers the best of both worlds.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I gave up hard shell last year. With my level of skiing, the areas I would hike to, and unless its pouring rain (this means real rainstorm, not just small damp) or at least least -15 cold and strong winds, I can't imagine hard shell to have any benefits over soft shell.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Depends on the day... My MH Synchro works well enough and will batten down ok... but if I think the day will be iffy or I am going somewhere crucial, I use a hard shell.
My jackets are Softshell for spring type condition, a paklite hardshell which should be a cool running but all weather jacket with vents and hood
and an XCR hardshell which is sometimes too hot even though it is fully vented etc.
I'm hoping to test the Paklite in earnest soon so I hope it will position itself in between the soft and hard shell for purpose..
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I sometimes ski in a water resistant, wind proof softshell (assuming that I understand correctly what a soft shell is). I don't carry a waterproof on those occasions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The reason I posted was I was flicking through some catalogs and the "new" soft shells seem to say they will be mostly water resistant unless your in a huge storm all day!
I have a 2 year old Mountain Equipment fleece, which kept me dry during a days skiing in light snow, I was very pleased with it, just don't think I'd go out solely with that incase something went wrong and I got stuck out on the mountain!
Cheers,
Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
I use Paramo which is described as soft shell by some. It's effectively water-proof and built for conditions much harsher than my skiing puts it under, so no I don't take anything else.
If it's too warm for the Paramo top I may just ski in a fleece and put a go-lite top in my pocket just in case (it's not water-proof as it's so small & light), but it does do the job.
I used to ski in my ventile top but it gets a bit stiff if it's too wet and cold which makes it not especially uncomfortable except it doesn't crease easily on chairlifts etc. so I only take it with me if I have spare space.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
kitenski,
My softshell would be ok in everything but wet snow.....
The paklite will be better allround, I'm sure
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't know about others, but my soft shell is water repellent and it really means it. There has to be a lot of rain for it to get wet through the fabric. Very wet sleet would do the trick after a couple of hours I guess. But on such weather, I do not really care to go out anyway...
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
I use soft shell and have used it in some pretty severe conditions and been perfectly fine with it. Salomon do a good couple of softshells as this is the brand I use myself.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
Goretex softshells are pricey but completely waterproof (to all intents and purposes). Not had any problems myself
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Sharkymark, I think we have a different idea of what constitutes a softshell.
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I have Killy softshell top and trousers. They have been through a variety of conditions from +16 (phew!) to -15 (with a windchill adjusted -31). Also drizzle and fog, and quite heavy snowfalls, although all on-piste. They have been excellent, and completely water-proof. I needed a fair bit of clothing underneath when it was -15, but I still managed to ski all day, with the help of a substantial quantity of hot chocolate I also have some Columbia snowboard trousers (I don't board, but ski trousers tend not to come in small enough sizes for me) and they leak a bit, and aren't very warm either.
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I am familiar with the terms "hardsell" and "softcell". One being a means of coercion and the other a crap 80's duo, but I'd be interested to know what people are meaning by "hardshell" and "softshell" .
Also what is an unlined Goretex (or similar) type jacket - either of these or something else?
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Softshell is a strange feeling type of fabric, to be honest it feels most like a wetsuit in terms of feel (though not designed to let water through like a wetsuit!!)
They made it to bridge the gap from having a waterproof/windproof layer (eg goretex), and a fleece with its warming qualities. So they combined the two to a degree, so you get a balance of water resistance (important to note that most are just resistant, not fully waterproof), and at the same time insulation. PRobably best in the UK for autumn activities!
They're still relatively new to the consumer market, therefore quite expensive relatively, seeing as they don't keep you THAT waterproof nor I doubt THAT warm. They're more of a convenience thing I think to save carrying more than 1 jacket.
Ray Zorro, an unlined goretex jacket won't have a liner No seriosuly, a lined goretex jacket generally just has a mesh inside, usually for the purpose of aiding wicking body moisture by taking it away from the skin, and adding a small amount of insulation and comfort. I would think it helps with wear as well (Save chaffing the inside of the fabric and wearing it out).
I think for my next trip I'll probably take my Gore Windstopper fleece (for warmer days, obviously!). Not waterproof but will keep the wind off when skiing down.
Another thing for those that don't know, all fleeces are inherently water resistant (to varying degrees). The nature of the fabric repells water from soaking in until it gets too saturated.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I do use my trusty 15 yr old goretex when it's really harsh out there, but sometimes ski in a buffalo shirt, and whe nit's warm a thin pertex windshell worn over a t-shirt.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
eddyr wrote: |
Softshell is a strange feeling type of fabric, to be honest it feels most like a wetsuit in terms of feel |
In that case, I don't wear a softshell, contrary to what I said earlier.
Next question: What's a buffalo shirt?
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
skanky, thanks. I see that it's neither a shirt nor a buffalo. Bit like the Holy Roman Empire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
richmond, or "soft shell" and "hard shell".
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Soft shell is, as you can tell from the name, about soft and comfortable shell clothing, suitable for almost all activities. The resistance against wind and water is excellent, which minimise the need of a totally waterproof shell garment. It two layers in one - the middle and top. And if it's really cold, just add one layer underneath.
I think the point here is that in most cases the breathability is important that complete and total waterproofness. Most of us here, no matter what we say, simply won't go out to mountains when its raining cats and dogs or when it's -30 degrees and so cold that you actually need more than a hard shell to protect you. Nor do we usually get trapped in bad weather, unless we are out for days in a row.
My belief, based on own experience is, that soft shell is superior in about 90-95 % of cases in terms of breathability, comfort and protection and works as the only outer garment without any problems. As I said, I won't go out if it is really really bad. When I see people sweating in their hard shells and "normal" ski gear, my face has a grin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
yep - softshell breathability wins hands down vs hard shell. haven't seen taped seams on softshell kit (which isn't to say that you never get them) and that seems to be their main problem as far as waterproofness is concerned
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Arno, How about these:
http://www.halti.fi/dynamic/2/productdetail/6/1/28/2427.html (it's taped outside - and it's not the only one of its kind)
And there's at least one from Haglofs too: "A durable jacket in 3-layer Gore-Tex® XCR® Soft Shell with a new waffle technology. Waterproof and breathable to handle diverse weather conditions. Micro tape throughout for a lighter, more supple, and more breathable garment. "
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
demos, interesting. i'm obviously behind the curve!
i've actually experimented with soft shell and haven't been totally sold on it. i do a bit of touring and i sweat a lot and don't feel the cold. i don't think my softshell trousers are an improvement on a pair of lightweight trekking pants i used previously. i get hotter in the softshells so i end up wet anyway - their waterproofness is therefore moot. the trekking pants are lighter and, because they are nylon, dry out very quickly
on the upper body, i find i can regulate my temperature with a base layer, light mid layer, light shell and a packable down jacket than i can with a system which includes a soft shell. the soft shell is good as an addition to those if i want to carry extra, but can't really replace any of them IMO
|
|
|
|
|
|