skiben, quick disgreement - modern skis do, do very quick turning very well - it's neither impractical nor impossible.
I actually meant trying to do what that guy is doing on modern skis- minus edges. Quick turns with modern skis is great fun but it would be pretty impossible to keep the skis flat like in that clip. i really want to take a pair of straight skis up next season!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skiben wrote:
...but it would be pretty impossible to keep the skis flat like in that clip...
The guy in the picture is on modern skis
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
easiski, ah well in that case are we talking "stepping against the uphill ski", maybe the "flying" step?
Wedge is an american invention to pretend peeps aren't actually doing a snowplough! It really just seems to mean a gliding plough rather than a braking one - correct me if I'm wrong ssh & comprex. ~Wedge is however a good description of the general shape.
easiski, We have a gliding wedge, braking wedge, and a wedge turn, and then go to wedge christies (basic and advanced in some regions ). As far as I can tell (after discussions with French and Austrian trained instructors), it's just a difference in terminology, rather than actual movement - wedge is easier to say than snowplough!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yoda, Actually I hadn't thought of that - know what you mean, but no, there's another (very obscure) one.
pollittcl, Ahhhhhhhhh. So then why do so many american instructors (videos etc) suggest that a snowplough is the ultimate evil? At one time BASI used the word wedge to describe a narrower slightly more open ended plough, but I think they've given up cos everyone took the p*ss.
BASI's latest thinking is that a snowplough brake isn't the best way to go. They say it's much better to stay with a glide, and teach them to turn across the hill to stop, rather than encourage a defensive stop.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
"Down"stem turn?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Well, if it's not a sideways movement (which has been ruled out by easiski already), then is it the "1000 step turn" (sorry, that's maybe an American term which you might not like).
That's a turn where you step around it the whole way - basically, pick your feet up and walk round the turn - so the step is more forward than sideways.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
Quote:
then is it the "1000 step turn"
I read somewhere the French name is 'Can-opener turn'... after the tracks you leave....
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ski, pretty good name for it too.
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easiski, As far as I can tell, PSIA thinks that a snowplough is the ultimate evil because they would rather we all taught "straight to parallel"! wich is all very well when you've got a perfect beginner hill, but not so easy in practice at some resorts. I also have come to the conclusion that while "wedge" and "snowplough" are essentially the same in practice, PSIA would like the narrower plough that you described to be the norm - since that was more like what my examiner last year demonstrated!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pollittcl, isn't a functional snowplough a fairly essential tool in the skiing toolbox? You might not use it often, but you need to be able to do a decent snowplough in some situations?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rob@rar, well, yes I think it is essential, but then I'm not PSIA! Actually the teaching model doesn't leave it out altogether, it just brings it at a later point so that beginners are not totally dependant on their wedge.
I generally teach wedge first - primarily because the beginner area dictates it - it's difficult for beginners to start at the top of the hill, without some sort of braking mechanism. And also because that's what the ski school prefers, at the moment. There's some talk of having all of us teach straight to parallel, but the terrain does dictate more braking wedges than anything else!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pollittcl wrote:
easiski, As far as I can tell, PSIA thinks that a snowplough is the ultimate evil because they would rather we all taught "straight to parallel"!
Hi, what's the model / progression for that given ideal ground ? I've heard about it but not seen it taught ?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 1-11-06 18:13; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pollittcl wrote:
There's some talk of having all of us teach straight to parallel, but the terrain does dictate more braking wedges than anything else!
I think that approach was developed (as Ski Evolutif) in Les Arcs, using short skis to allow easier progress to parallel turns (called Graduated Learning Method in the States I think). I don't see much evidence of it in use now; most beginners I see are using the plough as an essential step in progression.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
pollittcl wrote:
There's some talk of having all of us teach straight to parallel, but the terrain does dictate more braking wedges than anything else!
Used to find in Scotland that a well-placed stream would get folks snow-ploughing really quick
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ski, It's amazing what's possible if people put their mind (and body) to it !
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, Ski evolutif is a bit different to the straight to parallel which is usually taught from traverse and swing to the hill. As pollittcl, says, it very much depends on the terrain whether this is appropriate or not. veeeight, I know. Wear The Fox Hat, turn of 1000 steps is definitely an international turn, and no I didn't rule out a sideways move - hehehehehe, that's got you all thinking now. I may teach it to one of the guys out here if I get a chance, but it's a well dodgy turn to do!David Murdoch, You're thinking of the lower ski stem, which Yoda already mentioned - wait for saturday!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rob@rar, yeah and they have qualified the levels by number of weeks skiiing. I think most Brits downgrade themselves by a level and end up in a lower class than they should be so as not to be too boastful.
After all it is free
After all it is free
scottp, maybe, although I've seen a few who upgrade themselves a fair bit as well
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rob@rar, fair point.... but it is really difficult in the "technical clinics" to grade yourself, The top levels of any school typically talk about skiing anywhere, faster deeper, etc. what is an "all mountain" skier. to me it is someone you never see with climbing gear, great fitness and way beyond my abilities.
I did my first technical clinic and go t bumped up because the instructor though i would get bored...
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easiski,
Quote:
hehehehehe, that's got you all thinking now.
The head over heels turn with recovery
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hopping on the inside ski? (i.e. outside ski off the snow)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
scottp, no, they don't/ most Brits. IMHO have a wildly over inflated idea of their own ability. Thinking about it, at 21 years, so did I so one can't really blame them...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Murdoch, I guess i meant people of my advancing years at the advanced /expertlevels, not intermediates cum advanced skiers with a lot of testosterone.
never really sure from teh bar talk what type of skiier you will end up with. do you think the same holds for >40's...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
scottp, I looked at the NewGen desriptors and thought there was quite a large gap between level 6 (ahppy to ski all red and most blacks providing not too steep or bumpy) and level 7 (happy to ski anywhere).
It seems to me that there are probably another one or two levels in between these two.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
easiski, GRRRRR! I am reasonably sure that Colin Beck taught me this turn one race camp in 1985 but I just cannot recall the name. He was wearing very uncomfortable Koflach boots, I can remember that though (oddly).
scottp, purely based on your humility I would be delighted to make your acquaintance over a beer. Hmmm, I think that as with many things one starts to quieten down in the bar talk department once one gets past the 1st 40...
I know no expert skiers who describe themselves as such...
Nick L, NOOOOO! not that discussion again...
(runs out of full stops)
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Poster: A snowHead
those videos were interesting.
One thing I've noticed though is that everyone skis with their legs apart these days. I physically can't ski without my legs together, it just doesn't feel natural.
is this more a style issue or is it consensus that more advanced skiing is with legs apart?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skiben wrote:
those videos were interesting.
One thing I've noticed though is that everyone skis with their legs apart these days. I physically can't ski without my legs together, it just doesn't feel natural.
is this more a style issue or is it consensus that more advanced skiing is with legs apart?
I had a the same problem for a long time, turned out to be a boot set up issue. If you tend to catch an edge when you put your feet wider apart. check your canting.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skiben, in order to get modern skis to carve properly, your legs need to be apart, in order for their to be space for the outside knee to move over in a turn.
consensus that more advanced skiing is with legs apart?
I'll proffer a general rule of wider apart on piste and if carving and narrower stance in powder or on bumps.
The problem, of course, with general rules is that people will now say completely the opposite works for them...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skiben, classic BASI instructors tend to exaggerate the wide stance a little (fair enough - makes it easy for the pupils to see), but for most stuff a hip width stance seems to be recommended. exceptions: moguls and some types of off piste turn. the hip width stance should be comfortable - when standing still in a comfortable position do you have your feet locked together or hip width apart? so it's probably one or a combination of getting used to the new position (which always feels a bit uncomfortable at first) or your gear
One thing I've noticed though is that everyone skis with their legs apart these days. I physically can't ski without my legs together, it just doesn't feel natural.
is this more a style issue or is it consensus that more advanced skiing is with legs apart?
For many situations a wider stance is a more effective way to ski. Maybe a lesson or two with a good instructor will help you evolve your technique to get the most of modern skis. It certainly helped me, although for a long time it felt 'unnatural'.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nick L, Yeah i agree, what does "happy to ski anywhere" mean.??? to me "anywhere" means brown trouser time looking down a valley with rocks and no way out when i go tumblin... I really think all these schools offering technical clinics for "advanced" skiers should break down the descriptors of advanced level a bit more. perhaps they could explain certain drills so you can mentally test your own competency (ie, can make x number linked turns off piste, can ski with one ski on red gradients, can carve with one ski on inside and outside edge. etc....)
skiben, really helps the carving and steeps if you can work on widening your stance. The pretending to clench a beach ball between my knees when skiing blues really helped to break my lashed together knee habit.
David Murdoch, fair point, the few true experts i have skied with have real mountain humility within themselves and wouldnt lay claim to "expert" staus. I guess that was were i was coming from on my first post about brits understating their own abilities.... ps a beer is always a fine idea....
After all it is free
After all it is free
scottp wrote:
Nick L
skiben, really helps the carving and steeps if you can work on widening your stance. The pretending to clench a beach ball between my knees when skiing blues really helped to break my lashed together knee habit.
...
Why is it that about 6 or 7 seasons ago EVERYONE was skiing with legs together? How did these guys handle the steeps back then? Was the transition to skiing wider stance purely because of the development of the carving ski ?
Last edited by After all it is free on Thu 2-11-06 16:51; edited 1 time in total
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scottp,
Quote:
what does "happy to ski anywhere" mean.???
That's the number 1 question. I'd agree with your definiton personally but I suppose what is meant depends on the context e.g. what is level 8? Going on the level 6 definition I would expect the next level to be ski anywhere on piste otherwise the gap becomes too large. Also skiing, especially at the elite level is far too diverse to have a single scale of ability. I think the best way to explain this is to ask the question "Who is the best skier in the world?" IMHO it is an impossible question to answe as noone can be that brilliant at everything.
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Swirly, I like the "ski on any piste in any condition" definition as a 6.5
skiben, try looking at Bodie Miller Skiing http://youtube.com/v/41llqEmmlQI a couple years ago, he has a bit of an A frame working and he was the fastest at the time so who knows.....
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
). As far as I can tell (after discussions with French and Austrian trained instructors), it's just a difference in terminology, rather than actual 
