Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Where I need to be at after this season technique wise

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi.

I'm 22 years old, around 25 weeks skiing (did a season 06/07) and I'm off to Les Gets for another season next month. Due to ridiculously arbitrary rating systems I can't classify my ability per se, but i think I'm 'knocking on the door of advanced' (wedeling most slopes at speed in a probably unfashionable style). Making the transition from zigzaggy parallel turns to instinctively shooting down the middle of the piste and actually being in control was something I never thought I could achieve before I had the opportunity to ski continuously for 16 odds weeks. My question is, what is the next stage. Any experts out there, is it just now a case of applying my style to all runs? Is there any specific subtle higher end technique that sets you apart that i may have missed? How much better can I get by the end of next season?

realise it's a bit vague but I want to make a big breakthrough this season and get to that 'expert' echeleon. Thanks in advance

Ben
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Assuming that you get another solid 15 weeks you should be getting comfortable on all pitches and just need help in poor snow... and as you are young and presumably fit, then the whole hill should be your playground. You should be able to make a decent fist of anything. 40 weekers should be able to get pretty well anywhere they want to go....and the fitness will add a bit more IMV. Providing you have no hideous faults that stand out, it all about time on snow and a 15 week season would probably take holiday skiers 20 plus weeks to achieve, probably more...
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ben, welcome to snowHeads.

I'm no expert but how about telling us a bit more about about your current skiing to give us a better idea of were you're at, ie percentage on/off piste, turn shape preference, are you mostly a skidder/scarver/carver, how are you on steeps, what's your bumps skiing like, what happens when it gets icey, ever done any racing or instructor training, when did you last have a lesson, your current equipment set-up etc etc.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
skiben, Ah, I am jealous. You are so lucky.

Some (e.g. me) might argue that "expert" should be reserved for those who earn their living from skiing by teaching or competing. There are a few true experts SHs who might wade in and a whole load of competent recreational skiers.

That aside, what would I add to JT and Spyderjon's comments? Maybe a couple of my own criteria. Myself, I think a competent skier should be able/aspire to...

    * ski with identical grace, efficiency and elegance in all snow conditions - and on any/all equipment
    * ski the fall line down bumps
    * ski powder with all turn shapes
    * enjoy ice
    * know what they don't know about avalanches and other mountain risks and seek to learn about them


But I'm old skool. I have can't comment on the park (though I like the 1/2 pipe). I also think you ought to be able to ski happily on everything up to and including skis at 225cm... wink

What do you really want to be able to do?
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Murdoch wrote:
be able to ski happily on everything up to and including skis at 225cm... wink

Everything else I agree with, but that's just masochism! Wink
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
rob@rar, no, I was being quite serious. Really. Honest.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Murdoch wrote:
rob@rar, no, I was being quite serious. Really. Honest.

I know you were, and that's the masochistic bit Wink

I shudder when I remember trying to ski on 198cm skis (great in a straight line, but refused point blank to turn); nearly another foot of ski on top of that is almost unimaginable. Next month in Tignes I'll be riding up the funicular with a few serious skiers on DH boards - it scare me just looking at them!
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
David Murdoch, rob@rar, I used 225cms a couple of times when I was 16, probably one of the reasons I now use this.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Swirly, get one of those in a 225 and you'll be rocking Shocked
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Swirly, lightweight. Snowboarding does not absolve you of the holy need to learn to ski. If skiing was easy they'd call it snowboarding... wink


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 29-10-06 20:29; edited 1 time in total
latest report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I used to ski on 215's back in the good old days, and I have to say i really miss them! Never quite got to 225 though. Short skis still feel strange to me!
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
thanks for the responses guys

spyderjon wrote:
Ben, welcome to snowHeads.

I'm no expert but how about telling us a bit more about about your current skiing to give us a better idea of were you're at, ie percentage on/off piste, turn shape preference, are you mostly a skidder/scarver/carver, how are you on steeps, what's your bumps skiing like, what happens when it gets icey, ever done any racing or instructor training, when did you last have a lesson, your current equipment set-up etc etc.


This is the crux. I was at Champoluc last year and as you may know that isn't exactly expert heaven. The black in gressoney (second Nera) if anyone knows it, is fairly steep towards the end and i used to just bomb down the final stretch because there was a long flat at the bottom. I couldn't see myself trying to turn on that so I may be in for a rude awakening with the PDS blacks. On the first Nera run where it branches left I was watching the best skiers go down and of course they alter their speed accordingly, relieved to see they weren't wedeling down at 100 mph in total control, because that would have been tough to aim for.

The thing with champoluc and gressoney as well is, as far as I can remember there was zero mogul runs, unless you counted the shortcut across Sarezza. And I didn't really go off piste at all. I also probably didn't have the best advice in terms of equipment, I was taking up salomon crossmax for most of the season, then at the end tried some street racers, K2 devils, and a pair of Head skis (SRX or something) that I found a bit difficult. Basically I would appreciate some info about how different blacks affect the style of the advanced skier who can handle them, (and ice) because I haven't had enough tough slope experience to know how I'd cope.

Thanks! Oh and I don't really know about the skidder/scarver side, I don't remember the last time I actually skidded like I used to, but then again I've had no lessons since before last season so I could be doing it all wrong..
latest report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
skiben, Wedelen is a thing of the past! Sorry about that. I would say: how many different types of turn can you do? There are loads, so perhaps learning a few might be on the agenda? Also off piste for sure - you'll have lots of opportunity based in les Gets. Best thing is to arrange to have one lesson every month with the same instructor. they can then give you things to work on/towards during the month following. If you get yourself videoed each time as well, you'll have a record of your improvement. The instructor will love having the continuity too.

You don't change anything for different grades of run (green or black), pretty much the same technique (if correct) will get you anywhere on the mountain including off piste. You would probably change your turn radius according to how steep/icy it might be, and you might use more/less pressure or weight on the outside ski ..... more or less angulation ...... more or less inclination. All according to speed and mood as well as piste. All this can be quite easily acquired with the application of only a little effort.

enjoy Very Happy
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
easiski wrote:
skiben, Wedelen is a thing of the past! Sorry about that. I would say: how many different types of turn can you do? There are loads, so perhaps learning a few might be on the agenda? Also off piste for sure - you'll have lots of opportunity based in les Gets. Best thing is to arrange to have one lesson every month with the same instructor. they can then give you things to work on/towards during the month following. If you get yourself videoed each time as well, you'll have a record of your improvement. The instructor will love having the continuity too.

You don't change anything for different grades of run (green or black), pretty much the same technique (if correct) will get you anywhere on the mountain including off piste. You would probably change your turn radius according to how steep/icy it might be, and you might use more/less pressure or weight on the outside ski ..... more or less angulation ...... more or less inclination. All according to speed and mood as well as piste. All this can be quite easily acquired with the application of only a little effort.

enjoy Very Happy


Tell me more. Firstly, what do they call wedeling these days? I'm talking about the quick turns the flashy guys do at speed, I may have got it wrong though? What are all these turns I have been missing?

NEED MORE INFO! How many 'types' are they and what do they do? How are they different from each other? What is the 'fashionable' turn next season? I warned you I skied unfashionably!

Did you mean wedeling is a thing of the past as in noone does it any more? Because I saw it all the time last season, although I'm beginning to think they were doing something that looked the same but actually was very different...
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skiben, have a look at this thread for a discussion about some fundamentals of steering your skis. Wedeling might well have been appropriate (rather than fashionable) when skis were straight and skinny, but with shaped skis which are much stiffer a more effective (not fashionable) way to turn is to have some proportion of carved turn when you steer your skis, letting the ski do what it is actually designed to do. What you might have thought was wedelin was more than likely just short radius carved turns.

Basically there are three means of steering your skis: using the edges to carve, using pressure to bend the ski into an arc, and steering by rotating your foot/leg. All skiing is a blend of these three techniques depending on terrain, snow, speed, etc.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Technique - it's a means to an end.
Labels - who cares.

Just get out and enjoy your skiing. If you can ski well enough to out with a guide or some mates into the big white yonder and have a brilliant time who cares about anything else. When you do, you'll probably encounter some terrain or snow conditions which makes you realise that it would be good if you could do tighter turns on steeps, or handle crud better. At that point, address the issue and move on.

Don't let your skiing be about climbing ladders unless it's to access a particularly fine tract of untracked powder....
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
skiben, Couple of thoughts..... Ski with 'good' skiers.... they'll help show the way ? A lesson, every now and then, if you can afford it will help....

Aims..how about being able to ignore the colour of the slope ... i.e that they are all white (or brown rolling eyes ), and that you have sufficient skill to ski anything well, when conditions allow, and suifficient understanding to know when not to ski something ?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My aim this year is to be able to ski all day from first to last lift in any conditions and still be enjoying it as much at the end of the day, as at the start.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Any conditions, any terrain, any where, any time.

That is the ultimate goal.

To reach it, I'll pass along to you advice that I have received from one of my mentors: ski terrain you wouldn't normally ski in the way you wouldn't normally ski it. If you'd take the shaded side of the powder, take the sun-baked side, instead. If you'd ski it with long radius turns, ski it with short radius turns, instead. Mix it up. Try new things. Expand your experience and your skill at the same time.

...and find some new smiles... Wink snowHead
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ssh, A good way of thinking. Given a choice I will always ski the optimum conditions in the easiest style Embarassed .

This is why we have instructors and lessons
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Kramer wrote:
My aim this year is to be able to ski all day from first to last lift in any conditions and still be enjoying it as much at the end of the day, as at the start.


That sum's it up for me as well. Very Happy
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skiben, Wedelen is a specific type of turn which involves having a totally flat ski and "waggling" for want of a better word the hells from side to side. This is a type of short radius turn. There are other types of short radius turns as described by rob@rar, above and the thread linked. For parallel turns there are any amount of variations of how much edge, how big a radius, how fast or slow you go etc. All these are different. Also you have step turns (4 that I know of), they're a bit old fashioned but very useful on occasion and fun to do. then you've got all the short swing sort of turns (games) + skiing on one or the other ski (during turns), is that enough for you? All of these are different types of parallel turns, but there is no relevance to steepness. It's a lot of fun! Very Happy
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
This is a wedeln:



(Thanks, Ott, for having the consummate form!)
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
This thread has cleared up a lot of things.

Firstly I thought wedeling was just quick turns. when i look at the guy above i realise that with modern skis doing that would be pretty impossible and impractical.

It's also reinforced what I always felt, no rules, just go. I've been skiing with good skiers all season and getting better. Next season I'll be looking to improve on the tough terrain like others have mentioned. Skiing had never been more enjoyable for me than the closing weeks of last season, and I'm hoping it'll be even better next time.

Thanks!
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skiben, quick disgreement - modern skis do, do very quick turning very well - it's neither impractical nor impossible.

Back to your season. As you'll have noticed, the PDS is just a little bit bigger than Monterosa. There's a much wider variety of slope and conditions. Arguably, although I don't want to tempt the providence of the snow gods, it gets better snow. Because there's so much skiable terrain and generally better natural snow, they don't have to turn every piste into groomed hard pack every night so you'll find lots of bumps.

I also think there's a (at the risk of getting myself into trouble) much higher population of good skiers.

So lots of materiel for you to work on. And a great step up in terms of your learning curve, IMHO. I did 3 seasons in the PDS and loved every minute. Fantastic place.

Oh and just my pennyworth on turn types? I was once told that there are only 3 (possibly 4 depending on definition) types of turn once you get beyond skidding and ploughing. (Not trying to start a debate here and this was in conversation with someone who should know...)

Carving (includes "skarving") - doesn't matter whether fast or slow, long or short radius, avalement (bumps skiing) and powder (here there is one or two depending on definition, I would go for two but it's not externally easily apparent what the difference is and I don't have energy to explain).
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
David Murdoch wrote:
Carving (includes "skarving") - doesn't matter whether fast or slow, long or short radius, avalement (bumps skiing) and powder (here there is one or two depending on definition, I would go for two but it's not externally easily apparent what the difference is and I don't have energy to explain).


Different terminology for the same three steering methods mentioned above: carving = edge control; avalement = foot/leg steering; powder = pressure control. Obviously it's not that clear cut when you're on snow, with all three methods being used in conjunction with each other in an infinite number of ways.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rob@rar, sorry rob hadn't seen your post. Would open up a debat ebut ahven't got the time, vocabulary, energy, etc... wink
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
David Murdoch, Laughing
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Regarding powder / deep snow, I find that you can apply the same technique as carving ie. tipping the skis, especially so with bigger turns in the powder. Very exhilirating it is too Laughing

I had a great lesson in Winter Park last season which concentrated largely on tipping the skis (initiated by the inside ski) and has really changed my way of skiing - I'm now well on my way to achieving clean carved turns on piste and can apply the same tehnique for big fat turns on powder/crud.

I've heard a lot of people say that it is good to know all the different techniques, old and new. They can all form part of your toolbox and all come in useful from time to time.

(My aim for next year is to work on my mogul technique, which as ever is apalling Confused )
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
conor, that's the advantage us oldies have - we've learnt most of them at some time! (some techniques I'd rather forget for sure!)

OK here's a question: step turns; there's parallel step, stem step and skating step - who can name the fourth? I suspect only old BASI or Austrian trained peeps will know it, but it will be interesting to see .....
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
easiski, star step turns?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
David Murdoch, WRONG!
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
easiski wrote:
OK here's a question: step turns; there's parallel step, stem step and skating step - who can name the fourth? I suspect only old BASI or Austrian trained peeps will know it, but it will be interesting to see .....


If, by a "stem" you mean that one ski is straight, and the other is angled in, then the fourth could be a wedge step, where both are angled in.

Effectively you can have parallel skis and perform a step, or have them converging, as in a wedge or stem, or you can have them diverging. (mathematically these are the three shapes you can have for two straight lines: ||, /\ or \/ - everything else, such as |/ or /| are just variations on the theme)
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Well there's the lower ski stem instead of stemming the uphill one, or is that already covered by stem?
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

OK here's a question: step turns; there's parallel step, stem step and skating step - who can name the fourth? I suspect only old BASI or Austrian trained peeps will know it, but it will be interesting to see .....


Stem Christie ? Seem to recall that was different from a Stem Step ?

'The next demonstration we would like to see is Stem Christies linked with a 'refined' traverse'........ rolling eyes
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
easiski wrote:
OK here's a question: step turns; there's parallel step, stem step and skating step - who can name the fourth? I suspect only old BASI or Austrian trained peeps will know it, but it will be interesting to see .....


It's either ......

Door step, Quick Step or Samba

What did I win?
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yoda wrote:
Well there's the lower ski stem instead of stemming the uphill one, or is that already covered by stem?


If you go down that route, you could step with lower or upper ski when skating or when parallel as well...
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Isn't it the hokey cokey?
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
easiski, I would suggest the racing wedge (?) but I'd have thought that'd be covered under stemming.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Wear The Fox Hat, No,
Yoda, getting warm but not hot yet - it's a really wierd one this.
David Murdoch, still wrong!

Lower ski stem isn't a step turn strictly speaking because you push the lower ski into a stem rather than lift it. Stem step is much more dynamic that stem chirstie, and the wedgie shape is narrower, the uphill ski should be ahead of the supporting downhill ski ... blah, blah, blah.

Wedge is an american invention to pretend peeps aren't actually doing a snowplough! It really just seems to mean a gliding plough rather than a braking one - correct me if I'm wrong ssh & comprex. ~Wedge is however a good description of the general shape.
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy