 Poster: A snowHead
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A poster on the US forum EpicSki.com - 'philippeR', who says he's based in Paris - says that Salomon and Atomic (both owned by the Amer group) have boycotted the ski tests of the French magazine Skieur, and that the magazine has explained their refusal to supply skis because of unhappiness with earlier ski tests. Can anyone confirm or deny that report?
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=45770
This is familiar territory for me, personally. For some years I ran ski tests for a British magazine and we had strong objections from an Austrian manufacturer who didn't like our results one year. They pulled all their advertising.
One answer for magazines in this situation is to go out and buy the skis on the open market, though I've never known a magazine do this (Which? in Britain, of course, buy the washing machines etc. that they test). Admittedly it's not so easily done, because skis are pre-released to magazines some six months before they usually go on the retail market.
Can anyone confirm or deny philippe's report? It would be interesting to know more about this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Can anyone confirm or deny philippe's report? It would be interesting to know more about this. |
Yes it is true although Skieur haven’t specifically mentioned Amer in their Press Release, there may have been other manufacturers, Atomic skis were noticably absent from the tests. As Philippe said, the manufacturers who didn't take part were not happy with certain aspects of Skieur's testing process. It is always going to be a problem where you are relying on the goodwill of manufacturers to carry out tests.
Pyrenean magazine Respyr got around this aspect of testing by working with local suppliers to procure gear... I know that one boot manufacturer was furious with their "independent tests" even though they seemed very moderate to me.
The thing is, if you look through previous tests by Skieur Mag there is nothing particuarly radical that is said about Atomic skis. They liked some, they disliked others for certain specific reasons, just like skis in other lineups. Skieur's tests are ok as far as they go but like most tests contain a large amount of gibberish unless you have a very very good technical understanding of various types of skiing and the processes involved.
Skieur are obviously furious at what they see as a slight to their testing process but they also fear that the online community, particularly skipass.com, is snapping at their heels and they are becoming increasing irrelevant. Obviously having no website and incomplete tests whereas skipass.com has extensive tests and feedback from users does not look good for Skieur.
In short, a bit of a storm in a tea-cup for the rest of us.
Regarding Atomics, one thing that does annoy me is their marketing whereby the same or almost the same ski is marketed to piste skiers, tourers and telemarkers with different top sheets and blurbs and with different price points. I think it makes their stable more confusing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I though Salomon had absented themselves from magazine testing in the past arguing that they preferred to divert the spend to "educating the public" and their pro team. This was certainly the case in Canada IIRC, leading to a inference in certain circles that this was because the product didn't stand up very well to head to head comparison yet the public were suckers for flashy adverts.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[quote="davidof"]
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Regarding Atomics, one thing that does annoy me is their marketing whereby the same or almost the same ski is marketed to piste skiers, tourers and telemarkers with different top sheets and blurbs and with different price points. I think it makes their stable more confusing. |
I thought this was fairly common in the industry particularly in North America e.g. Rossi T1,T2, T3, Sickbird, Karhu Jak/Line Mothership. Those in the know just buy the tele/AT version if its cheaper but they are less widely distributed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Admittedly it's not so easily done, because skis are pre-released to magazines some six months before they usually go on the retail market.
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How can the consumer be sure that the skis they buy are the same ones that are tested six months previously?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tomsk, I would imagine that you can't. I have once or twice played with "pre-production" (?) skis mid late season which bore little or no resemblance to the marketed model 8 months later. A necessary part of the development process.
But which begs the question - how would you be able to tell?
I must admit that I find ski tests relatively (or completely) useless. Very few people, very occasionally agree with me on how skis "feel". I guess I'm just odd. Ergo, a ski test will be of no use to me.
So I find myself confronted with a whole load of tosh, "great in the park" (whatever the feck that means - crap everywhere else?), "can handle the rough with the smooth" (hmmm, no I just like a bit of rough myself), "not so great in long turns" (well it wouldn't be, it's a fecking SL race ski) and recently (although I paraphrase), "fat enough for the deepest pow, but still fine on piste" (nope, I seriously doubt it. Introduce a 90mm waist and you introduce camber as you go edge to edge. Feels to me a bit like trying to ski on a skateboard. No way does that compare on hard pack to a nicely tuned SL pair with 68cm underfoot).
You will all gather that although I enjoy hearing about the new skis (where I can understand what segment they are aimed at), and seeing the graphics, I have precious little interest in hearing what either Joe Bloggs or Bob Ski God has to say about their experience.
Rant over. For the moment.
[edited following skinutter's keen eye for detail]
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 23-10-06 21:09; edited 1 time in total
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Tomsk, I would imagine that you can't. I have once or twice played with "pre-production" (?) skis mid late season which bore little or no resemblance to the marketed model 8 months later. A necessary part of the development process.
But which begs the question - how would you be able to tell?
I must admit that I find ski tests relatively (or completely) useless. Very few people, very occasionally agree with me on how skis "feel". I guess I'm just odd. Ergo, a ski test will be of no use to me.
So I find myself confronted with a whole load of tosh, "great in the park" (whatever the feck that means - crap everywhere else?), "can handle the rough with the smooth" (hmmm, no I just like a bit of rough myself), "not so great in long turns" (well it wouldn't be, it's a fecking SL race ski) and recently (although I paraphrase), "fat enough for the deepest pow, but still fine on piste" (nope, I seriously doubt it. Introduce a 90cm waist and you introduce camber as you go edge to edge. Feels to me a bit like trying to ski on a skateboard. No way does that compare on hard pack to a nicely tuned SL pair with 68cm underfoot).
You will all gather that although I enjoy hearing about the new skis (where I can understand what segment they are aimed at), and seeing the graphics, I have precious little interest in hearing what either Joe Bloggs or Bob Ski God has to say about their experience.
Rant over. For the moment. |
Agreed the 'tester notes' are usually meaningless....though u sure about the measurements...think u mean 'mm' 90cm waist would be one helluva ski 
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skinutter, think anti-parabolic, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tomsk, there is considerable variation between skis of the same type even within production runs. i understand that some skis made in the race room are paired up by hand with the manufacturers finding ones that feel of similar flex to make up the pairs
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Hey guys,
had to re-register to the site so am on a mission to learn snowsports. That's beside the point though....
In reference to the first post, I work ona fishing magazine and the same principle has applied in the past. We've run comparative tests on fishing kit, based around a mix of factual info and personal opinion, an the number of times we've had complaints from advertisers is astounding!
Basically, I think niche sports (although fishing, like skiing, can't be that 'niche' with so many worldwide participants) are dictated by certain companies and the punch they pack. As a journo I'm doing a balancing act between serving the reader (the most important person in my mind) and the advertisers who pay the bills. We've won some battles along the way and equally, have lost some too.
The comment regarding whether or not the end user will be getting the same product as was tested is a good one. I'v ehad many protoype bits of kit sent to me that have changed radically six months down the line (often for the worse). I've also had a few pro-active companies that have actually listened to me as an independant tester and have upgraded the product with no hike in price.
I have absolutely no knowledege of skis/snowbaords whatsoever so don't know what part the two companies involved paly in the snowsports market, but I hazard a guess that they're major players. I say fair play to the mag for carrying the test without the two skis andd sticking two fingers up tot he money men.
It's a hard thing to do, knowing that your budgets (and wages) could be affected by the withdrawal of advertising from a big spender but it's a sign that thre is still some credibility out there in journo land!!!
Just out of interest regarding the comment about the usefullness of tests/reviews, I take it personal opinion is a major part of what kit you select, just like in fishing - One man's dream might be another's nightmare I suppose?
Are there any good ski mags in the Uk that'll help a numpty like myself know what to do before I hit the Alps in January?
Spesh
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Arno,
I believe Stockli do something similar..or say they do... They pair up their handmade skis by hand and in a test centre there is a degree of flex difference that most can detect as they have racks full of the same model and size. But you still have to ski it to know whats what with it...but at least with the choice they have you can pick a stiffer of softer one. Personally I haven't gone that far.
Specialman, The best UK mag is Falline IMV but then you have almost everything here to get started. Post away, you have come to the right place
Oh and welcome to
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Cheers JT
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