 Poster: A snowHead
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Are there any other teachers who organise school ski trips on here?
If so what do you do about supervising pupils while they are in ski school lessons.
We take a trip each year of about 110 pupils to France and stay with the UCPA who provide morning and afternoon lessons. In the past we've always had a teacher ski with each group of pupils and instructor. Is this what other schools do or do you allow the pupils to go off with the instrucor unaccompanied? (i'm sure all qualified ski instructors are well capable of supervising alone anyway). Is our policy of having a teacher ski with each group a bit OTT?
Also ski instructors what is your opinion? I felt last year that a few of the instructors in France felt a little bit uncomfortable with a teacher tagging along with the lessons particularly if it was an experienced skiing teacher. We've never done it to keep an eye on the instructors or anything because they are always excellent and professional more just to give a bit of support to the beginners and occasionally help with the language barrier.
What does everyone think?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've worked for schools tour operators for most of the past 10 years, and I've never seen a group whose teachers didn't ski with the kids in lessons.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's been many years since I've been on a school ski trip (mostly as a pupil, but once as a responsible adult when not enough teachers could be found). In those days teachers didn't accompany the pupils on their ski lessons, but skied with them at other times of day. This seemed to work well, giving the teachers and the kids a break from each other for two or three hours a day. What are your school or local authority regulations for trips like this. Is there any regulation which says that pupils must be supervised by a teacher at all times, or is it acceptable for a qualified person like a ski instructor take on the supervisory duties? I'm tempted to say that having one teacher with every ski lesson group is OTT, especially if you have your kids split up into many different ski glasses - it will stretch the availability of adult resources quite thin?
Ski instructors I know who specialise in teaching kids seem to think it works better without any other adults (esp. parents) fussing around during the lesson. At the start and end of lessons its useful for making sure kids have got all they need (liftpasses, glasses/goggles, the right skis, boots done up, etc), but left alone to learn in their own style and pace during the lesson itself.
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Is it something unique to British schools? The instructor who runs the UCPA ski school told us that all the French school teachers let pupils just get on with it which i found odd.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, according to the party leaders I've spoken to most LEAs now don't let teachers take kids on the mountain without a qualified instructor. Most of the groups I've had where teachers free ski with kids were from private schools, which seem to be less bound by risk-averse regulation.
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We dont let pupils ski without a qualified instructor although legally we can do it but I as the trip organiser am liable in the event of anything going wrong which is why we steer away from it. Thats one of the main reasons why we go with the UCPA who offer full time instruction. I'm not sure how schools with just am or pm lessons manage.
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Lizzard, thanks. I guess I'm not surprised that times have changed. Regulations and the memory of some tragic accidents have (inevitably?) led to more direct supervision of kids while on trips like this.
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garethjomo, the huge majority of school groups book lessons both morning and afternoon, presumably because of the restrictions on teaching staff taking kids out skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think the 'blame culture' in our society is largely to blame too. I've heard of some bizarre cases of parents taking legal action against schools because of incidents on school ski trips. Unfortunately i think before long the school ski trip may be a thing of the past because of this.
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As a parent i would want my child to have a friendly adult face in the group at least for the first few days whilst they learn to ski and get used to the mountain.
I would also want the teachers to give the kids some slack and leave them with the instructor or give them some free time during the latter days of the holiday.
As an ex-instructor i would have encouraged the kids to be skiing with teachers for at least some of the holiday as this can forge a bond when back at school, they also get to see how their teachers are out of the school environment. (mine were always p'ssed)
One great memory I have was our Deputy Head being with the absolute learners group and breaking her arm on the first day. Sad of me i know but she was a cow. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's been a fair few years, but when I went with secondary school we only ever had teachers in the lessons when they were of the same standard; we then all met at a lunch.
As I got better we could ski with the teachers for an hour or so after the lessons finished.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In April we met some teachers supervising a school party, the teachers were in a mountain restaurant having lunch and the kids were having lessons with the ski school.
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I've done several school ski trips (working for a tour op, not the school), and I've not seen any school that has a put a teacher with every group. The occasions when I have seen a staff member joining a ski class, it's becasue it is at their level and they want/need the instruction.
I can understand why some instructors wouldn't like having a teacher there, as kids will often still see the teacher as being "in charge", even though it is the instructor that is the expert. I have known of one situation where the teacher was contradicting what the instructor was telling the class!!
That said, as paulm says, I think it is a good thing for the teachers to get a chance to ski with the kids as it does help them bond and can improve the relationship long term.
My own experience of skiing with groups (I have to as part of the job), is that at the start of the week I stick with the total beginners. Often the instructor is glad of another pair of hands for picking up bodies/lost skis/poles. After a day or two, I will float around groups, popping in to ski a run or two with them, but then leaving the instructor to get on with it.
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You know it makes sense.
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garethjomo, I used to teach school groups a lot - I still do on plastic. Here's my 2p worth...I don't think having a teacher there is compulsory... but 
You should certainly watch each class a couple of times each week .... just to make sure all's OK.
If you know of a 'problem' - for instance a particularly difficult group - discuss it with the instructor FIRST....I remember finishing one exhausting week with the comment 'Yes, well we would never have put those two together anyway..........'
If you think that having a teacher there will help (discipline, younger children etc) then by all means do so - you are the customer after all !, but most of the time I found things worked just as well, if not better with no teacher. You should also consider the gender of the group and the gender of the instructor.
A really really really BIG thing to consider is how well the teacher will ski ! Nothing (and I mean nothing) will p**s the children off more than waiting for Mr/Mrs Smith again and again....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Not a teacher, but have been heavily involved in organising my old school's ski trips for a few years.
We have sets really:
1. Those who are in lessons (usually about 60) - they ski with the instructor (2hrs morning, 2hrs afternoon). That's it. The only time a teacher skis with these is if they too are learning to ski. The reason being that the instructors are qualified individuals who know what they're doing and regularly have to take children's lessons.
2. Those who are not in lessons (usually about 15) - ski with the Party Leader who is a qualified ski leader in what is known as the 'Flying Squad'. The only premise here is that due to our LEA's regulations everyone under 18 in the group has to wear a helmet, unless a parental consent letter is sent, absolving the leader and LEA of responsibility for head injuries caused by not wearing a helmet.
Everyone in the group has lunch together between the instructor groups' morning and afternoon sessions.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you for your help. My policy this year will be...
*All 10 groups will be allocated one teacher who will check before every lesson they have the right equipment etc.
*Beginner groups will have teacher with them for most of the time to give moral support but also because we have 3 beginner teachers anyway
*Groups of better skiers will have teacher accompany them for first two days or until group is settled and working well with instructor. They can then ski between groups taking pics and helping total beginners.
*Will ask head of ski school after each session if any group needs a little support etc and tell him we're willing to help out any group.
*Not going to allow any pupils to ski without instruction when lesson has ended etc as they have enough ski time.
How's that sound?
PS as group leader i obviously can't join a group as i must be on call in the event of emergencies at all time. And also have to explore the entire domain looking for potential hazards 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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garethjomo, that sounds generally a sensible approach. Will the kids kick up a fuss if they can't ski outside of ski school? Are your teachers confident enough to lead groups of (perhaps the better) skiers after ski lessons have finished each day?
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They never have in past. We organise sledging etc after lessons. We have some very capable skiers who are confident but there isn't really a need. Legally they can not lead anyway without Alpine leaders Award only supervise or accompany. We always make it clear to parents anyway and get them to sign consent that there may be times when pupils have to ski with instructor due to unforseen circumstances. Can only think of one in last 5 years where instructor had to assist a serious accident (not one of our kids thankfully and i had to lead/accompany a group back to resort
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All the preparation for the snow and one boy goes and breaks his thumb on dry ski slope last night!  Thats skiing though i suppose
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garethjomo, the first school trip I was involved with - the party leader went out late afternoon on arrival day to do a risk assessment check, and ended up in hospital with a spiral fracture of the leg. The next morning, one of the kids slipped on some ice and broke his ankle. At least yours has done it before the trip!!
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A friends child wnet skiing last winter with his (private) school. Mixed ages from about 9 or 10 to 18. He ended up skiing with the 6th form, as he had skied before, and the others his age hadn't. Not sure he was too enthralled with the trip becasue of it.
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We're lucky all 110 kids are from the same age group! Year 9 (13+ 14 yr olds) If we opened it up to the whole school we'd have over 600 pupils wanting to go.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have been involved with school ski trips for the last 20 years and prior to that was a pupil.
We don't generally put a staff member in a ski lesson with the kids unless of course we feel there could be a problem with any of them. Providing the instructor is experienced in dealing with kids (which they will be) they should be trusted to get on with their job. As has been said before the kids should have a bit of slack away from "sir". We make a point of course of delivering our kids and then collecting them after the morning and afternoon sessions, any problems are dealt with there and then.
The kids are not allowed to ski without an instructor but they get 5 hours instructed skiing a day which is enough. Moreover, the staff and associated adults need their freetime so as to save their energies for the real challenge that lies ahead in the evenings. When taking a group of 40/50 14yrs to 17yrs away, the ski time is easy, stopping them boozing and shagging each other is a different challenge all together.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| In April we met some teachers supervising a school party, the teachers were in a mountain restaurant having lunch and the kids were having lessons with the ski school. |
Hi Helen - we were the school group always at the bottom of Monetier (at the bandstand!) having our sandwiches so it wasn't us! I was the one chasing the students for their rubbish with black bin bags - including the students from other schools! 
We always put one teacher in charge of each ski group and we ski with them for the first day (or all the time if same ability) to check:
1. Quality of instruction.
2. Students follow instruction from instructors.
3. Instructors are happy with groupings.
We cannot allow students to free ski/board without instructor. For the last 3 years I been with 6th form advanced boarding group and have had some of the best boarding challenges of my life - trying to not to show I'm scared to 18 yr old boys who bounce whilst ice climbing around Montangnol in order to reach unchartered territory off piste was tough!
For any other teachers running ski trips (or parents who send their kids, read the PS..) here're some top tips - with info about grouping - I wrote in another thread:
I've run school trips and we use gaffer tape and permanent OHT pens to get students to identify boots, boards, skis and poles. Needs to be done at the ski fit stage with a teacher handing out pieces of tape and another writing names. Much more civilised than the other school kids scrabbling around for kit and shouting at each other every day. We also get a different ski/board group (eg. Beginner skiers or Intermediate Boarders) to make a chain and load/unload ski locker/coach each day (they have to be ready to go 15 mins before others). They all know when they have to unload because we have an A3 paper pinned up in reception with all the timings of meals meeting places and activities each day listed (written by me- at dinner time - for the next day ). Students have to check the board to know what time they have to be places and what's happening - if they ask a teacher a question when the answer is on the A3 paper they have to do a forfeit - like carry someone's skis or help the drivers....keeps the teachers sane and helps the students gain a sense of personal responsibility (on some trips for some students, this is the first time they've had to orgainse themselves)
I really enjoy taking the trips because I enjoy seeing the students learn a sport I am passionate about. I also really appreciate it when parents thank us when we return...because we have put in a lot of hours usually for over a year to prepare for the trip and then look after their children 24/7 doing an extreme sport in a foreign country...something that you are potentially risking your career and livelihood for...
PS. Before you say goodbye to her [your child] at the coach, stand her with her back to the coach and make her tell you the name and colour of the coach so she knows which one it is on the ferry/at service stations in case she gets separated from her friends....now there lies a story for another time...
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 1-11-06 23:49; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Freestyle, Great advice
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Freestyle, love the PS. I'd add to that, though.....tell your kid that when they here the announcement that passengers should return to their vehicle, then that is what they should do. What they shouldn't do is see that the amusement arcade is now empty and make use of that. The coach will have to move off the ferry, and will not wait for them!!!
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FAQ
