 Poster: A snowHead
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C4 interview with Trading Standards tell us that O'Tw*t's T&C's have had to be rewritten to comply with the law and that they will have to compensate and provide travel for the passengers they strand and they DO have to accept responsibility for damage to luggage AND SPORTS EQUIPMENT!!! woohooo!
There is some more but those are the ones that really apply to us lot . . . and about bloody time 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cheap air travel will shortly be a thing of the past.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, I think I'm in your camp here. The more regulation (beyound airworthyness and safety) that is applied and the more taxes that are applied will increasingly push up low cost air fares and push carriers out of the market, what do you want 14.99 air fares or lots of regulation, why should it be upto Ryanair and the ilk to repatriate if you pay this level of fare, caveat emptor I say.
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If I'm getting the option of booking flights for next to nothing then I really don't have that much of a problem with filghts being delayed/ cancelled etc, it's a pain but I'm only getting what I paid for and I generally arrange myself around expecting such problems even though they have very rarely happend to me. Loss of luggage and damage etc is something else though, and if I'm taking ski's and boots with me then Ryanair are probably going to be making a fair chunk of extra cash from me in being 1kg or so over whatever weight limit they have decided to use that month.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stevew, Making record profits in the millions off the back of ignoring the basic care of your customers and their property is not just illegal it's also immoral and if he starts moaning about how much this is going to cost him it just goes to show how little he cares about the customer and he rather put profit in front of doing the job right in the first place. We have Trading Standards regulations because they're needed as has been shown by prior events.
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| Masque wrote: |
| stevew, Making record profits in the millions off the back of ignoring the basic care of your customers and their property is not just illegal it's also immoral......... |
I can't see that is so. It is often bad business - but in the case of Ryanair, the profits speak for themselves; the company has been delivering a product that customers want, even despite considerable adverse publicity. Therefore there is no need for additional regulation. Let the market decide what customer care an airline offers.
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Isn't the key issue that Ryanair's T&C's were in breach of existing regulations (which by inference other carriers were following)? If so then their 'record profits' could be attributed to their not playing by the same rules. We can argue about whether the rules are needed, but while they exist, they should clearly be applied to all, IMHO particularly those who have demonstrably been ignoring them.
Whenever I've checked Rynairs prices, taking into account baggage costs etc they haven't been any cheaper for me anyway, and how they could seriously claim not to be responsible for luggage (sports equipment or otherwise) beggars belief! If they aren't responsible who is? 
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For the serive that Ryanair provides I'm very happy, get me and my bags in one piece to the other airport for a little money as possible. I don't care about any extras that other airlines may give you and as most of the flights that I take with them are under an hour and it takes me longer than that to get a bus into the city center in the mornings I just think of them as a bus with wings.
If they do manage to buy Aer Lingus though and try to do the same to transatlantic flights then I might have more of an issue, but for that kind of journey time people are prepared to pay a bit more for some extra comfort so I cannot see them cutting quite as many corners on those routes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Every cloud has a silver lining -- I suppose that would put an end to a couple of docu-soap's 
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It's a matter of reasonable expectations, isn't it? If you travel on Ryan Air, you know that the service will be crap from the minute you make your booking to the minute you pick up your bags, delays, impossibility of speaking to any one from Ryan Air until you're actually on the 'plane and so on, and that they will try and sting you for whatever extra charges they can. If you don't like that, pay a bit more and fly with someone else; there's no point in moaning. It's not reasonable to expect anymore from them.
It is reasonable to expect that your luggage will arrive in one piece; no-one in their right minds is going to save say £50 on a flight if they have to pay £450 for a new pair of skis.
BTW, the OL and I have to fly to Brindisi in early Jan. I thought that we were condemned to Ryan Air, but I've found that by changing once, I can get an Alitalia flight, and for for a bit less cash. Early start and a longer flight, but the times are much more convenient and efficient and I go to and from LHR instead of Stanstead. Hooray!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm in the "you pays your money, you takes your choice" camp. Ryanair have never let me down. I wonder what their dress code (religious adornment) policy is? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Legality issues aside - the terms and conditions of your booking and what the company will/won't do etc. are there to be read. You even have to tick a box to say that you agree with them. You've only got yourself to blame if it goes tits up. Read them, if you can cope with them, then fine, if you can't, then go elsewhere. We've all got brains, and we can all read (well, most of us can...) so we should take some responsibility for our own decisions.
Having said that, and being a firm believer that if you have to agree with something then you're responsible, I do think that they shouldn't be allowed to put in the T&Cs an ability to have no responsibility for damaged goods.
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| skisimon wrote: |
| Having said that, and being a firm believer that if you have to agree with something then you're responsible, I do think that they shouldn't be allowed to put in the T&Cs an ability to have no responsibility for damaged goods. |
I think that they get to pocket the airport taxes from flights that are not actually used is something that has come up before about their T's & C's although I have not seen it mentioned this time. I'd be happy if there was a way of me getting that money back from unused flights but that is only becasue it is generally more than the listed cost of the flight in the first place.
Maybe I should just be more organised and stop booking extra flights though.
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You know it makes sense.
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After a recent reurn flight to Dublin with Ryanair - never again. There are alternatives and whilst I obviously benefit from convenient flights that are extraordinarily cheap, I just don't think the soulless service and general experience make it worth the few quid you save over BA, which is so much more civilised and reliable. On the Dublin flight none of the flight attendants (sic) spoke english - at least not as wot i would like to hear. There was constant queuing, waiting, herding, scrambling, jostling and hassle. Awful service, no leg room - they have even taken the magazine pockets from the seats in front of you to cramp the seats even closer together, and/or hasten 'cleaning'. I for one believe that minimum standards of customer care should apply in all businesses. A different issue, but I would certainly fully tax aviation spirit, and I would treble it for private jets. And I'm not even a socialist. Ooh, I'm right wound up today. I shall go and crush a grape 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Isnt this what Insurance is for ? If you have insurance whats the problem ?
I dont see why airlines should compensate and in anycase airlines are at the mercy of airport authorities,customs,airspace control. THey just fly the buses with wings
If there is no such insurance in the UK I can see a whole new market for yearly insurance cover specifically dedicated for cover (delays,baggageetc) to bucket airlines.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| stanton wrote: |
| Isnt this what Insurance is for ? If you have insurance whats the problem ? |
No. Insurance is a form of risk management to hedge against accidents and the unforeseen. If (because of Ryanair) many claims are being made, premiums for travellers (including non-Ryanair passengers) will increase, just because Ryanair refuses to "play by the rules"
| Quote: |
| Cheap air travel will shortly be a thing of the past. |
That's just scare mongering from o Leary. We have a minimum set of standards which most airlines can follow. If Ryanair cannot follow those standards and keep their prices low, there are plenty of other low cost airlines which will step in and do so.
I see many people say "well you travel on Ryanair you get what you pay for"... "I don't expect much" ... etc until they end up in one of the situations when Ryanair shaft them. Then you see the tune changing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In what sense does Ryanair "shaft" its customers?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The only way I'd feel "shafted" by them is if they damaged my luggage or maybe if stoped flying to one of their out of the way airports that only they fly to whilst I was away.
I couldn't care less about if the seat has a pocket for a magazine or if I have to "fight" to get a seat (as long as I get one) or if the flight crew are English ( I've memorised their safety speach by now I think so a slight accent on their reading of it does not matter). If your going on a holiday then I can understand wanting the flight part of that holiday to be a pleasant as possible a start and end to the trip, but for quick weekend trips around Europe a bus with wings is perfectly adequate for getting me there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| a bus with wings is perfectly adequate for getting me there. |
It might have problems getting through some of the bridges and tunnels.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| In what sense does Ryanair "shaft" its customers? |
Maybe I could have phrased that better and I have plenty of personal anecdotes but I'll give you a web page instead...
There's plenty other stories, you may have not heard, but Ryanair invariable get into the press on a regular basis with some shockingly bad stories:
disabled people
misleading adverts
blind people
overcharging customers
no compensation
I could go on but I'm sure you get the idea of what "shafting" someone is now
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I thought that wheelchair case was actually down to the airport, Stanstead?, having a different policy than every other airport for the use of their wheelchairs. Other airports provide the wheelchairs for 'free' with the costs of providing that service just included in the taxes that they charge the airline, but Stanstead charged the airlines each time one of their passengers requested extra transportation to/ from the gate.
Ryanair being at fault in that case for not reading the airports T's & C's properly I guess.
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Well I'm not holding my breath but I'm hoping that cheap fares do end soon. Worldwide a big tax should put on flying and the money put to subsidise transport with a smaller carbon footprint. I tried to go on the overnight train to St Anton but instead of about £100 it would have cost about £400. So I'm going to fly.
Carbon trading is just a figleaf which lets us pretend we are being green. Actually the other green measures need to happen as well. Even that won't stop global warming - just reduce the increase.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Worldwide a big tax should put on flying and the.... |
well I don't agree with this but I do think air fuel shoud be taxed the same way as all other fuels so as to level the field (which is currently stacked in airlines favour)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, a fuel tax would be the best way to do it since it would also encourage more efficient use of fuel in airoplanes. I wasn't meaning just a flat tax on flying.
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| skanky wrote: |
| Quote: |
| a bus with wings is perfectly adequate for getting me there. |
It might have problems getting through some of the bridges and tunnels. |
It's been tried before
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It always amazes me how many people think that if something's cheap we should accept whatever crap is thrown at us and just suck it up. There are loads of goods and services that compete with each other and being the cheapest is certainly not always a guarantee that it's the worst quality. Many of you take your cars to independent garages, you'd be severely p¡ssed if you got it back with a part missing or damaged so why the hell do you think that this is ok for a budget airline? Ryanair's had to change it's T&C's because they were termed in manner that made its customers sign away their statutory rights just to fly . . . I severely doubt that was accidental, not that I've any proof other than their proven attitude toward customer care over many years.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Well I'm not holding my breath but I'm hoping that cheap fares do end soon. Worldwide a big tax should put on flying and the money put to subsidise transport with a smaller carbon footprint. |
I think the biggest difficulty is the worldwide bit. There are some countries that just aren't going to tax flights which arrive/depart from their airports (perhaps for fear of depressing their economies), and that makes it very difficult for other governments to act. The Kyoto agreement was (nearly?) neutered because a few major players refused to sign, even though most countries wanted to.
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Quite frankly lads, having just paid £45 to fly to Basel and back and a similarly miniscule amount to fly on O'Leary's Bus, I'd be happy to stand up for the duration of the flight.
I really can't see what you've got against them Masque. You're a reasonable sounding chap and generally put up intelligent arguments but surely you can accept the concept of getting what you pay for. A return trip to any number of European cities for the price of a tank of petrol is unbelievably good value, and I for one am happy to accept the "risks". Alright the stewardesses are a bit fatter, but for a shorthaul flight I can tolerate that.
Its not like other airlines aren't available is it? If we as passengers won't stand for whats being presented, we can fly BA, which isn't all that dearer anyway a lot of the time.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Or - govs could subsidise the most environmentaly sound form of travel to half the price of the (2ce polluting) competition. It would lead to a lot of problems and complications but it may work out as long as a few European wide laws were ammended.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The more regulation (beyound airworthyness and safety) that is applied and the more taxes that are applied will increasingly push up low cost air fares and push carriers out of the market, what do you want 14.99 air fares or lots of regulation, why should it be upto Ryanair and the ilk to repatriate if you pay this level of fare, caveat emptor I say.
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I bow down to no-one in advocating free choice, free markets and capitalism. However, other peoples' property is other peoples' property, and when you break it you pay. Ryanair has played fast and loose for far too long with the belongings of others. It isn't the free market, it's the careless handling of property placed in their trust. Low fares through an efficient operation, fast turnarounds and no-thrills are great, but if you break it you own it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowball wrote: |
Well I'm not holding my breath but I'm hoping that cheap fares do end soon. Worldwide a big tax should put on flying and the money put to subsidise transport with a smaller carbon footprint. I tried to go on the overnight train to St Anton but instead of about £100 it would have cost about £400. So I'm going to fly.
Carbon trading is just a figleaf which lets us pretend we are being green. Actually the other green measures need to happen as well. Even that won't stop global warming - just reduce the increase. |
Where would you personally economise? Go skiing less often, or find other savings?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulmck, I've watched O'Leary in action on a number of occasions and I have a deep loathing for his attitudes. He has consistently bent or evaded rules regarding customer care and customer rights and that sort of mindset has a demonstrable habit of percolating into other areas of a company's practices. I won't fly with him and I think we're very lucky that their fleet is fairly new.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| snowball wrote: |
Well I'm not holding my breath but I'm hoping that cheap fares do end soon. Worldwide a big tax should put on flying and the money put to subsidise transport with a smaller carbon footprint. I tried to go on the overnight train to St Anton but instead of about £100 it would have cost about £400. So I'm going to fly.
Carbon trading is just a figleaf which lets us pretend we are being green. Actually the other green measures need to happen as well. Even that won't stop global warming - just reduce the increase. |
Where would you personally economise? Go skiing less often, or find other savings? |
Would I go boarding less often, tough one. Would I pay more to make less of an impact, certainly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saxabar, you have to find savings somewhere else then!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, agreed. I know an FR pilot/trainer and he wouldn't fly them except when he's driving. Not to imply anything unsafe of course, just a generally miserable experience.
paulmck, I think you'll find that on competing routes, BA are often cheaper. Certainly I find it difficult to beat BA's prices on Easyjet routes. E.g. I'm paying £54.00 quid on BA to fly return from Geneva to London in a couple of weeks. So for similar prices on BA I get to check in online, choose my seat, get a free glass or 9 of wine and a friendly, helpful service throughout. No brainer really. Oh yes, and lounge access and priority boarding.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Masque, agreed. I know an FR pilot/trainer and he wouldn't fly them except when he's driving. Not to imply anything unsafe of course, just a generally miserable experience.
paulmck, I think you'll find that on competing routes, BA are often cheaper. Certainly I find it difficult to beat BA's prices on Easyjet routes. E.g. I'm paying £54.00 quid on BA to fly return from Geneva to London in a couple of weeks. So for similar prices on BA I get to check in online, choose my seat, get a free glass or 9 of wine and a friendly, helpful service throughout. No brainer really. Oh yes, and lounge access and priority boarding. |
Would agree with all of that. Both BA and AL offer similar fares on similar routes with all of the advantages and none of the hsssle.
On the AL front - latest news is that Ryanair will great difficulty in acquiring a controlling stake in AL - 
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It's all down to airport for me. For Dublin flights, Ryanair do Stansted or Luton which are pretty inconvenient. Aer Lingus do Heathrow, which is nearby but a hell hole. BA do Gatwick which is just right! Not too much difference in fares, so BA (usually) gets my custom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
& no seats at all. Makes one think though, be a lot quicker to exit an aircraft in an emergency.....whilst on the ground of course..... 