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The trials and tribulations of organising group holidays...

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello peeps, back for another season of snowheading. Everyone well?

Well this year's adventure is different for a start. In a massive break from tradition, we've decided to experiment with half term skiing instead of Easter. This is 10th - 17th Feb for our area. Due to flights coming out whilst I was on holiday and the inability of anyone in the group apart from one or two to actually commit to something it was all left a bit late to organise flights.

Having done France for 3 years in a row now, the group wanted to head for Austria/Germany. I had a brief flirtation with the very helpful Ben Wright about the Foux D'Allos area, but got overruled by the rest of the group.

So... try and find a flight from East Mids, Birmingham, Cov, Luton or, at a push, Stansted to an Austrian/German airport... and keep it at a reasonable price... and get reasonable flight times so you don't have to arrive in resort at past midnight or have to depart for the airport at 2am the following Saturday morning... Can't be done.

Hmmm. Experimented briefly with one of the two sleeper trains but couldn't get a flight to a connecting German city in time to intercept the train and it was a bit pricy too. Oh and not many of the group wanted to do it...

Had a brainwave... Not all of Europe will be on half term when we are and there will be less pressure on "ski airport flights" from many european airports, all we have to do is get a connecting flight to one of those airports then catch a flight in to Munich, for example! The ever-helpful skyscanner.net site helped identify potential connecting flights and after much hunting, found a route from Birmingham to Hanover to Munich and back starting on Saturday morning. Bonus was that this is with BA & then Deutsche BA, so no baggage supplements. Unfortunately we got bitten by the supply & demand flight booking system and it would have doubled in cost from the £115 it looked like to what we'd actually have to pay for the group of 16.

All was not lost. Found a friday night flight from "home" airport of East Mids (no parking fees as several of the group live so close) to Cologne/Bonn for £60 return. Overnight stay in Cologne for £25 per head, then an early monring Cologne flight to Munich and back to Cologne the following Saturday lunchtime, a few hours wait, then back to East Mids. Deutsche BA flights, so no baggage supplements either in the £50 fare. So for £135 per head, we'll be in Munich for 9am on the Saturday, in resort (to be debated in "resorts" section!) for lunchtime and a bonus half day on the slopes!

It was hard work, but I feel quite smug to have "beaten the system" even though I've left it so late... Any flights to Munich/Salzburg/Friedrichshafen/Innsbruck/Klagenfurt/etc... on any sites I can find are either incredibly expensive (up to £500 return in some cases) or hopeless flight times. We could, of course, have simply flown to Nice for £100 or thereabouts instead, but that meant France again and the group said no... it wouldn't have been half as much fun chasing it down either!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well done. I do groups at half-term too and have often had to include a free tour of Germany to get there for sensible money. These days i book as early as I can with BA. Think you might have a bit of a game finding somewhere to stay in Austria at half-term though...and transfer is usually the biggest problem.


snowHead
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Nah. No worries. Our half term is a week or two before the Austrian blitz happens and it's a piece of pee to get transfer from Munich airport on teh excellent train system. Did it a couple of years back with no problems at all!

Already been offered a nice 15-bed house in Garmisch for £80-ish per head for the week. Just concerned about an 8-minute bus ride to the slopes every morning...
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carled, Its better than an 8 minute walk Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Frosty the Snowman, Laughing

Spoken as a true lardy love god, mate...

I'm just not sure... on the plus side, we're all together in a big house, but the trip to the slopes every morning... hmmm.
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carled, I also do trips for the group. Transfer and accomodation are easy to organise but flights ex Ireland are a bit of a problem. Would suggest you book provisionly for the group bus and hotel and tell the group be at this airport (continental side) at time and indicate that a certain flight will get you there at the desired time and date, get them to book directly. If they get the flight for €5 plus taxes great. If not its there problem for not booking in time.

BTW what are you getting for £80ish per person per week!!!!!!! Hope it is not a hovel!!!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ryanair still got direct stansted->salzburg return for £150 (fly out friday, back sunday) for that week too, if anyone else is caught shopping for half term a bit late..

Congratulations on the lateral thinking though - not sure I could convince my lot the change was worthwhile, but coming up with the idea certainly deserves kudos!

aj xx
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ajhainey:
Quote:
ryanair still got direct stansted->salzburg return for £150 (fly out friday, back sunday) for that week too, if anyone else is caught shopping for half term a bit late.


Yeah - if you leave at 6:20 on Friday morning and come back last thing on Sunday night! Means 2 extra nights accommodation costs too!
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carled, lots of respect for bothering to arrange your trip like that.

I would never organise a group holiday DIY - can't be bothered.
And it's quite difficult to synchronise flights as we always has some travelling from the north and some from the south.

I always get in as early as possible via a tour op and try to get as many earlybird/group discounts as possible.
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ah but that last thing on sunday is my favourite flight!
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carled, rather you than me. It was bad enough organising a group hol through a TO. For future ref, a couple of years ago I found a flight to Munich via Schipol (from LHR) quite late on.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have alot of sympathy for this. In theory mine should be eaasy to organise - 12 people, all smilar ages, similar skill levels, all interested in the same kind of things, However....

Does anyone else have the problem that when you find somewhere that everyone will like you get "that's to expensive" and when you find somwhere that's cheap you get "that looks crappy" or "the skiing's crap there"

Oh well, i'm sure i'll get something sorted...soon...maybe rolling eyes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stephen bleakley wrote:
carled, lots of respect for bothering to arrange your trip like that.

I would never organise a group holiday DIY - can't be bothered.
And it's quite difficult to synchronise flights as we always has some travelling from the north and some from the south.

I always get in as early as possible via a tour op and try to get as many earlybird/group discounts as possible.


Absolute ditto.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A looong time ago I was President of the Leicester Univrsity Ski Club. I organised 3 group holidays:
55 people to Schladming
77 to Tignes
60 or so to Sauxe Doux

rthe following year we had all left Uni and it was
12 to Val d'Isere (I had learnt my lesson by then and kept it as a mates trip!)
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We did a similar flight thing last year at half term(Geneva via Berlin) for a couple of our party and it worked well, though would have been a nightmare if the first flight had been delayed! I felt smug too....... but not until we were all safely in resort!

This years dilemma is slightly different, in that the accommodation is booked and it's outside half term so the flight prices aren't so scary but now some of the 'little darlings' that were all 'yeh yeh yeh count us in!' have magically disappeared off the face of the planet and left me with 2 maybe 3 available twin rooms.

.......anyone fancy a cheap(ish) trip to Le Grand Bornand at the end of Feb????? :
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Grr, I've organised a group trip (albeit a small number of 10) for the last 5 years and this year after more work than ever and much deliberation by everyone, I finally booked. The price included a group discount.

However, one month later - a (planned) pregnancy was announced with one couple dropping out, followed by another couple dropping out because they won't be back from their travelling in time. This means that the rest of us lose our group discount after all that effort to get the price right.

Next year someone else can do it!

Good luck to all those group organisers and carled, you deserve a medal. I hope they all buy you a drink or two.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
A lot of it is self-motivated. I simply cannot afford the tour op prices. By cutting out these leeches in the middle, I can make phenomenal savings. For example, on the trip I'm after now... With £135 flights (inc. overnight accomodation), say £20 return transfer, £20 insurance, £120 lift pass, approx £100 per head for s/catering or even B&B for the week, I have a price of £395 for a week's ultra-high-season skiing/boarding, INCLUDING a lift pass and insurance... For, say, a family of four, I'm looking at £1420...

Now a quick glance at most tour op brochures puts self catering prices for Austria in somewhere like the skiwelt region for that week at about £600+ This doesn't even include the lift pass, insurance, supplements, you name it! This would take the comparable tour op holiday to about £4000!!! I've just gone through a "fake" booking procedure with Crystal (hardly the most expensive operator out there) to prove it, it's £3953 with a hyper-generous discount of £120 for internet booking...

Look at £4,000 compared to £1420 for my notional family of four and now tell me again why booking with a tour op is a good idea? Even allowing for discounts, they couldn't touch my price with a 50ft bargepole. Rip-off merchants.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 13-10-06 10:27; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've done seven people this year. The most so far. It's been creeping up from just two of us ten years ago.
I think because it has been gradually creepping up on me it hasn't been too much of a problem so far.
No one has ever dropped out.
Everyone has paid me on time.
The one year I didn't book it, I felt out of control.

On the whole, two of us decide the dates and the place. Ask who wants to do those dates and that place. No alternative is offered. No one has yet asked for an alternative (maybe I'm that scary!)

I always book through a major tour operator.

If things go as they have been doing ,in another couple of years I may be up to enough people to get some token discount!
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carled, you will always pay a high price with a TO for peak season. This is because they have to make a certain amount per week to cover the overhead costs of running guaranteed accommodation (staff, rent, utilities etc). There are a lot of weeks during the season on which they will make a loss (eg second week in January, everyone's skint, bloated and hung over, no-one's going away, people are paying £250 for a holiday) and they therefore have to make a whopping profit on the remaining high season weeks. One of the many downsides of breeding - you end up paying for a load of child-free people to have a cheap holiday.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
hayley t,
Quote:

However, one month later - a (planned) pregnancy was announced with one couple dropping out, followed by another couple dropping out because they won't be back from their travelling in time. This means that the rest of us lose our group discount after all that effort to get the price right.


The trick here is to get enough deposit of everyone to cover the loss of group discount should the numbers fall below the requirement.

Advantage = people think twice before committing and if they do drop out only they suffer
Disadvantage = could put people off so you may not get enough takers in the first place to get the group discount.

But something worth considering for future.

e.g. I've organized a boys weekend to Zermat for February (DIY - 11 people), got £250 off anyone who wanted to go 6 months ago and so far only bought the flights and paid a small deposit on hotel, rest of money in my bank earning interest for the first round of drinks ! NO-ONE has dropped out !
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I've organised group booking last year for 19 and have one organised for January for 25. I've went with tour op both times (Crystal group booking for Jan). Also priced Jan doing flights etc seperate and it was working approximately £60 - £80 cheaper.
There was 2 pulled out last year, any more and there would have been an under occupancy fee.
For this years, no one pulled out yet and had couple of other people looking to go after it was all booked so have them on a standby list.

With such a big group i felt a bit safer going with tour op in case something went wrong, delayed transfer or something. So would have less to worry about and enjoy the holiday better myself. If it was a smaller group of say just 5-10 i would maybe consider doing it myself.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If I was one of the group and I'd allowed the organiser to commit themselves to booking a hotel etc. on the basis that I was going and I then dropped out of the trip I'd expect to have to cough up for any loss of group discount/empty beds there might be.

I've got a couple of friends that need 'encouraging' to honour such obligations but they've always paid up in the end.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
carled, I have to agree with you about tour ops during peak weeks, but last year was a freak exception.

I organised a group of 14 to Alpe d'Huez with Thomson in a chalet hotel, so we got a fair bit of group discount bringing the book price down to about £520 per adult. On top of that one of my kids went for free, the other went for just £200. Now for a family of four, first week of Easter, catered in a top resort I don't think £1220 was too bad ! A great holiday it was too.

This year however it's back to DIY. Same week, first week of Easter, booked flights with BA to Milan then car hire to drive to Saas Fee where private 3 bedroom 4* apartment awaits, total cost just shy of £1100.

So I guess there's bargains to be had both ways.
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masmith, that is a really good idea thanks. If I do it again, I will get an extra £50 per person to cover losses. The drop outs will lose their deposit (to the tour op not us though) which should be enough encouragement alone to commit or not next time this comes around.

I think people fail to realise that it takes a lot of research and organisation to cater for all levels and get everyone to a ski resort and not like the 10 minutes required to book a late deal to the Canaries.
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carled, my admiration is not that you have not used a TO (I wouldn't normally either) but that you've done it for everyone else, no doubt with lots of conflicting requirements, as well.

Annie, hayley t, I would really pressurize the drop outs into covering the loss suffered by the group (loss of discount, untaken rooms). I wouldn't dream of backing out after the booking had been made without settling up.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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hayley t,


Quote:

I think people fail to realise that it takes a lot of research and organisation to cater for all levels and get everyone to a ski resort and not like the 10 minutes required to book a late deal to the Canaries.




For me, you've got it in one! It's less about the accommodation cost which actually only amounts to about £40 per head extra on not a huge amount of money anyway for those of of that have committed so isn't the end of the world and we're still a way off so there's still a good chance I can drum some extras up from somewhere, it's more the amount of time spent searching laboriously for something that will suit everyone's budget, capability, convenience requirements ad nauseum and factoring into the equation that finding good quality, self catering ( I've a catering background so look after that) for 16 - 18( which means sleeps at least 20) even out of holiday periods isn't the walk in the park that doing the same for 8 is comparatively speaking. Then finding a couple of weeks or months later that actually the myriad of 8,10,12 or whatever options that I had a look at to start with would have done quite nicely thankyou!

Grrrrrrr!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Annie, hayley t, on the couple of occasions on which I organised a group hol, it was a case of we're going there, then, if you're in send me £100 by ... . No arsing around with 'I don't want to go there.', 'I can't go then.', I want 37% black runs, not 35%.'. You two are obviously too nice.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
dont bother.. the more effort you put in the less other people will appreciate it..
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Little Angel
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I must say that my group appreciates the work I do tremendously. Last year they surprised me with a big carrier bag full of bits and pieces like a billabong hoodie, a billabong sweatshirt, wallet, face mask... thoroughly unnecessary, but greatly appreciated! In previous years they've clubbed together and paid my family's entire share when we've gone out for a posh meal or Fondue evening, so I do feel thoroughly appreciated!

Every year when someone "new" joins the group, I always get loads of "helpful" (ahem) emails with flight suggestions or ski holiday search engines where they don't appreciate that it isn't really workable to be back at Munich airport for a 6:20 flight on the returning Saturday or that holiday search engiens can't cater for the multitude of rooming arrangements required for a large group. I usually end up having to be ruthlessly (but gently!) sarcastic to get my point across that, yes, you can get some lovely bargain holidays with lastminute.com, but not when we're trying to go at peak half term time with a group of 16 to 20 people.

My group trusts me implicitly to find the best combination of accomodation based on cost & convenience and they now realise (I have taught them well) that if you're prepared to walk a bit or get the ski bus, you can get some damn cheap deals, but they'd better not moan about their feet hurting if they agree to it!

I always get my lot to book and pay for their own flights. I find the best flights, write down the times, airports, flight numbers and so on then tell them to go forth and book. Their problem if they screw up then! I then find the accommodation and get the transfer sorted and get a non-refundable deposit off all of them that is enough to hurt them if they consider pulling out (usually £100 or so) then get the rest a month or so before departure.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I always get my lot to book and pay for their own flights.


Yup always get them to sort out their travel - but help where it's needed.
I'm currently sorting a group of 11-15 (yes, there's some 50/50s). The main problem is trying to subtly persuade them all that they want to go where I do. wink
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
richmond, that's pretty much what I did in the end. Told them the place and the amount. The problem is, if you don't cater for the majority of their needs before hand, you have to put up with their moaning about the size of their room or the distance to the lifts for the entire week.

carled, I'm joining your group next year!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
I always get my lot to book and pay for their own flights.

Another little technicality on this front is that if you put together accommodation and Flights and sell it as a unit (ie a package), I believe you legaly need to be 'ABTA bonded' since lots of people lost money in the Seventies or Eighties or something when some airlines went bust (I think that's what it was).

Anyway, what it means is: u can sell someone a hotel room and a train ticket together that you've bought seperately but not a hotel room and a flight.
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hayley t wrote:
The problem is, if you don't cater for the majority of their needs before hand, you have to put up with their moaning about the size of their room
Yes but I can tell u, if the two biggest snowHeads in the world decide to allocate themselves the smallest bunk room (out of 30 rooms!) then the laughs definitely drown out the moans Laughing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
All I have done is sit at the end of an msn link going "yup, fine by me" to any questions posed by my group leader Smile I was a bit crap at the "find another single female to share your room since your husband is a lying, cheating b&st&rd and clearly won't be invited on this trip", so instead I am training as a sports massage therapist, so hopefully a few smart rub-downs for free should put me in the group's good books Wink
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clara_jo, you can come on any of our holidays, we'll find single females to share with you (and the men won;t hit on you either. well, not after you punch them either)
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
admin wrote:
hayley t wrote:
The problem is, if you don't cater for the majority of their needs before hand, you have to put up with their moaning about the size of their room
Yes but I can tell u, if the two biggest snowHeads in the world decide to allocate themselves the smallest bunk room (out of 30 rooms!) then the laughs definitely drown out the moans Laughing

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Sounds like Alastair Campbell is on the payroll.

A bit of advice to folks. If its self allocation in your accomodation, don't be last to turn up Laughing

The only moans were moans of illicit pleasure. (charlatanefc had a secret stash of Cadbury Boosts)
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