 Poster: A snowHead
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I just got a new pair of k2 public enemies and rossignol scratch bindings. I am going to use these skis for basically everything. I dunno if i shoudl go with the center mounted bindings or if i shoudl go with them mounted a couple centimeters back from center. what should i do?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi nfazio21, welcome to 
Unless you plan to ride switch alot of the time, I'd suggest mounting them 2-3cm forward of the mid sole. If you are using them for everything, then that would be best, IMHO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Huh?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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AND SO IT BEGINS . . .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, who are you huhing?
K2 skis have markings on the side of them which go from "mid sole" to "core center", graduated in 0.5cms.
The "mid sole" mark is about 9.5cm behind the actual centre of the ski, and the "core center" is about 2.5cm behind the actual centre.
So, some people mount back from the "centre", but I think it is better to mount forward from the "mid sole".
Does this make sense?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Eh?
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try mounting one forward and one back. Then tell me where and when you will be skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I apologise for making a useful post on this thread. I shall return to my usual form now...
Mount them on top of the skis.
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Knowing that you know that I know that you know that I know quite a lot about the mounting positions and those on the K2 in particular, I was surprised that you offered very little explaination about the +- 2cm controversial theory on the K2's.
But just reading your post straight the poor chap would have been confused and indeed anyone else who might be thinking about a similar mounting query but not on K2 skis about the sentence that read "Unless you plan to ride switch alot of the time, I'd suggest mounting them 2-3cm forward of the mid sole", which kinda makes sense on the K2 with the +-2cm error theory, but not on a non K2 ski.
I still don't know till this day if that +-2cm applies to *all* K2's, just Seths, just PE's, or was it only that pre-production ski that SM was on that day, or just a particular year of K2's production?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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veeeight, the +-2cm thing certainly is valid for Seths and PEs, BUT (and it's a big but) - it is IRRELEVANT if you measure forward, rather than back. So if you start at the mid sole mark on the ski, and mount it forward by 3cm, then you are 3cm forward of the mid sole mark. If you want to mount at the chord centre of the ski, then you would mount them 9.5cm forward of the mid sole mark. This position happens to be 2cm ahead of what is marked on the ski as the "Core Center".
The problem comes when people either try to mount "back from centre", or say the scale is wrong when mounting forward.
(confused yet?)
My reason for suggesting 2-3cm forward of the mid sole mark is based on my experience of K2 twin tips - if you mount them at the mid sole, they are great in powder, but not so hot on piste. Bringing the mounting point forward makes them easier to handle on piste. Bring it further forward, and they are easier to handle in the park/pipe, but you then start to lose the off-piste benefits.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What's the collective wisdom on the ideal mounting point on a pair of Dynastar 4800's to be used 60% piste 40% off piste by someone trying to unlearn traditional weighting to allow the acquisition of more modern technique?
After reading Spyderjon's posts and realskiers articles about campbell balancers and ball of foot measurements, I thought I had a grip on current ideas about binding placement - now I'm less sure.
Can any of you enlighten me?
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Midsole of the boot at the midsole mark on the ski.
| Quote: |
| unlearn traditional weighting |
Another modern skiing myth, which needs to be addressed, but in a seperate post, probably in bend the knees.
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You know it makes sense.
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| marmotte farcie wrote: |
What's the collective wisdom on the ideal mounting point on a pair of Dynastar 4800's to be used 60% piste 40% off piste by someone trying to unlearn traditional weighting to allow the acquisition of more modern technique?
After reading Spyderjon's posts and realskiers articles about campbell balancers and ball of foot measurements, I thought I had a grip on current ideas about binding placement - now I'm less sure.
Can any of you enlighten me? |
Just mount them on the mid-sole mark and forget the voodoo.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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...probably a few lessons would help too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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All bindings should be shiftable forwards and backwards, so you're not committed to fixed mounting points and can enjoy some experimentation. You can, admittedly, achieve this by buying rental/demo bindings, which aren't normally made available to the public.
The important thing is to have both a shiftable toe and shiftable heel unit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, a lot of modern bindings are movable - most of the "rail" systems, and some others (such as Atomics) allow for variable mounting.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Edmundh009, see my post above regarding the chart. (based on my measurements).
I'd only mark centrally IF the ski is for the park, and riding backwards is how you intend to spend half your time on the slopes. Otherwise, skiing on piste or in powder is going to be too cumbersome.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cheers for that info on the mounting chart though I do disagree that skiing in powder and piste is more cumbersome, I think it really depends on length of ski and skier weight. So mounting a 161cm Salomon thruster at core when you weigh 180lbs would be the wrong thing to do. But mounting a 189 ak enemy at core at that weight should be fine. Although I do understand what you're getting at is that its some sort of compromise. ie; the ski will perform better in powder if mounted further back.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ohh..dear I seem to have contradicted myself.... 
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I would definitely mount them on the skis
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dme, that was one of my first thoughts, but I felt a technical question deserved a technical answer (at least to start off with).
Unfortunately this user has never looked at the forum since his first post (well, he/she hasn't looked at their PMs)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Most important is to mount them on the correct side of the ski (usually the colourful side)
Don't mount them on the black or plasticky feeling side as you might find the tips stick in the snow.
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Look, i will be the only one here that doesn't confuse you
I have K2 PE's with rossi Axial 1 120 bindings that are for piste, park and all round goofery.
I have mounted them +3cm from mid sole - perfect for all conditions!
A
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OK Real question
I've some shiny Movement Thunders & some rossi Axial bindings courtesy of Spyderjon (& probably a ski shop sale in SLC)
I haven't lent a great deal of thought to where I mount them but I do know 2 things
1 I don't like the length of tip with traditional mounting points on traditonal style skis i.e. it always seems that there is too much tip & while fine on piste I feel they suffer from a lack of manouevrability in trees, moguls etc.
2 I do like the mounting on many twin tips I have tried which gives more tail without being core centre. The "more tail" may be deceptive because the effective edge behind the binding may of course be significantly shorter.
The skis will be used as an all mountain Euro ski, they are not treally a true twin tip although the tail has a kick. I have a few thoughts myself but welcome input from those who consider these things carefully. Definitely no rails.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If no rails etc.... I would mount them 4cm back from centre mark, giving you smaller tail but still piste orientated.
There, thats my two peneth
A
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fatbob, what markings are on the skis?
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You know it makes sense.
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parlor,
I can't remember as I've left tham at a friends for now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, if you're putting Axials on (and I think they are the ones Jon got in REI), then you already have a bit of a delta angle that will put you forward.
What length are the skis?
What weight/height are you?
If the skis are short for your weight, then I'd say 1.5-2cm forward of the mid sole mark. If they are longer than you maybe normally use, then perhaps 2.5-3cm.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The skis are probably about right length for me given the intended application - a bit longer than my fatter skis but not as long as my piste skis. I would go longer if I had a heli and unlimited time in Alaska but then I wouldn't be expecting to have to deal with moguls and trees with them.
Although I don't doubt the science of theories like Campbell balancing I really can't be bothered obsessing about deltas and ramp angles and I'm probably the last person who should go on a Harb system course because I'd probably feel like punching the coaches. I spent an hour talking to a late convert to skiing who was in the middle of one of those courses and all I could think was that it was like some sort of Moonie brainwashing cult. I guess fundamentally I believe that you get used to what you've got and that there is a whole industry built up around technical tweaking while the lay skier might be better investing in proper tuition or an extra ski holiday etc.
I'd just like to get it rightish to start with given my past experience & gut feel. What I will actually do is measure where I am on the skis I'm most happy with and try to duplicate that. I may wait until after the PSB when I will try to demo with a bit of fore & aft adjustment to confirm my feelings.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| fatbob....and I think they are the ones Jon got in REI....... |
Nah, they were the new model Axial 2's courtesy of a Rossi contact.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| fatbob....and I think they are the ones Jon got in REI....... |
Nah, they were the new model Axial 2's courtesy of a Rossi contact. |
My apologies for casting aspertions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, My REI ones went to another .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith,
| Quote: |
| achieve this by buying rental/demo bindings, which aren't normally made available to the public |
Nope, I've never ever seen a pair of rental bindings, to, errr, ...rent. 
Nor buy as part of an ex rental deal.
Although, I do have some funny moveable things on my 215 SGs...wonder what that's all about?
fatbob, obsessing? Who's obsessing? You want obsessing, try t'other side of the pond. (PSB: Hah! Not long to go now....)
spyderjon, would have been more impressive had it been a Rossi contract... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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[quote="David Murdoch"][
fatbob, obsessing? Who's obsessing? You want obsessing, try t'other side of the pond. (PSB: Hah! Not long to go now....)
quote]
Exactly why I never look at Epicski. Quite happy to look at TGR etc mainly for the TRs
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| fatbob wrote: |
Exactly why I never look at Epicski. Quite happy to look at TGR etc mainly for the TRs |
word.
Try to find out about the markings on the skis. Movement know LOTS about their own skis.
I spent a day on the Thunders, can't remember much about them really, great conditions 6" on good base. Didn't stop till it was dark and my legs hurt. They would have been mounted at the line. I think I liked them but wanted them in a 205 or similar.
If Movement have gone down the popular 'dual' mark get em drilled in the middle. Otherwise don't worry too much, get them re-drilled if you think it's holding you back...
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| davidof wrote: |
| marmotte farcie wrote: |
What's the collective wisdom on the ideal mounting point on a pair of Dynastar 4800's to be used 60% piste 40% off piste by someone trying to unlearn traditional weighting to allow the acquisition of more modern technique?
After reading Spyderjon's posts and realskiers articles about campbell balancers and ball of foot measurements, I thought I had a grip on current ideas about binding placement - now I'm less sure.
Can any of you enlighten me? |
Just mount them on the mid-sole mark and forget the voodoo. |
Agreed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Being a chiropractor, I work with the effects of alignment/biomechanics/ergonomics on a daily basis.
Professionally, we are encouraged to use best clinical practice which is constantly being refined by quality research (evidence based practice).
It is interesting that questionning current practice for binding placement is called voodoo.
The article on realskiers.com that originally sparked my interest in this subject relates to a blinded research project carried out by people who have nothing to gain from the findings other than an improved understanding of the subject.
If their findings are proven significant, reproducible and relevant then they will influence skiing in the future.
Today's voodoo may become tomorrow's current practice.
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FAQ
) With some pros (andy Mahre) mounting above true centre which is around 15cm ahead of mid-sole.
