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Convince me....driving?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
You can avoid the tolls in France by avoiding the autoroutes. Takes a bit longer but if you're stopping off overnight anyway. There's a some good routes down that way, and some very straight roads at times to keep the mile sticking over. The nip over the Juras and down to Geneva is always nice. Not that I've ever done any more than map read on the route, though.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=18957&highlight=

I did a comparison the other night between ferries from the North, flights and driving via Dover. I didn't include extra insurance, as European cover is included in our policy.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you drive to the alps the important thing is a VERY early start (5.30 or 6am from London) so there is no traffic to the tunnel (1 1/2 hours from north london - Hampstead). 8 hours from Calais plus lunch stop. We arrived in Meribel in time for tea and watched the last skiers coming down (this was early April) . 11 1/2 hours door to door.
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Keeping off the autoroutes as suggested by skanky is certainly pleasanter but it usually makes the journey a lot slower (even allowing for the excellent straight D roads). I read (years ago) a comparison of a route through France (Calais to Nice I think) by m'way and off m'way; the former was cheaper and quicker (but obviously duller), especially if you have to add an extra overnight. Before we had kids we did the D road thing in a convertible most years, very pleasant, 2 or 3 nights en route to Italy or Switzerland. Now we have something which is more comfortable on m'ways and as time always seems to be shorter (I blame the kids), it's usually m'way as much as poss.

If you're taking a leisurely approach - 1.5 or 2 days - then logis de France are a good option; we've used them a lot for overnighters over the years, almost to the exclusion of anything else, and found some real gems and only one duff one (in Grenoble). Their web site is reasonably helpful, although the on line booking is a bit chaotic (best to book directly with the hotel or at least check that an on line booking has been made and is correct). However, the experience that is Formule 1 should be had by everyone once in their lives, if only to appreciate logis more, and if your timetable dictates very late arrival (no dinner, straight to bed), they are cheap and covenient for m'ways.

If you drive you need to be a bit flexible; prepared to stop an extra night en route in an emergency (weather, breakdown) and not overly fussed about whether you arrive in the resort at the planned 5.00pm for a quick shower, leisurely drink and dinner, or at 12.00pm. Most m'way service stations have a good restaurant (excellent salad buffet, steak tartare and creme brulee, anyone, washed down with a glass of a decent burgundy?), so if the worst comes to the worst you can dine before you arrive without losing too much time.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
richmond, yes that's why I said if you're stopping off overnight anyway - otherwsie you save nothing. We used to drive to Courmayeur every year, using LdF and d roads. I think it was about 5-6 hours each day (so 10-12 in total). We rarely booked ahead, just saw how we got on and went for one that was close. The rare times we couldn't get in we went to another. My Dad was the only driver in the family at the time, and it was always his idea.
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7.5 hours' drive once in France. As oppsed drive to Gatwick/ Heathrow, check in 3 hours early, wait be delayed, get to other end wait for bags for hour, arrange transport to la clusaz but short transfer If I lived in London would happily drive. Sadly, I think its a tad too far from South wales
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sounds like the key factor here is to avoid London airports, a tactic that's worked well for me so far.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Portable DVD and audio books have worked well for us. Prefer the audio books myself as I can listen too! (Harry Potter read by Stephen Fry is our favourite). IMHO driving is much LESS stressful than flying (with luggage and kids) and in parctice can take only a couple of hours more door to door. Flight delays on one trip to Les2Alpes took us 12 hours door to door, we've driven it in 13.

We normally stop once on the way down, around Reims or maybe Troyes, depending on time of crossing, giving us a nice easy journey second day. Coming back we often do in one go, with the kids falling asleep in the back and the two of us sharing the driving. This is primarily because I don't mind arriving home in the dark, but prefer to still have daylight when finding our way to a resort. Driving works out MUCH cheaper than flying when there are 6 of you, particularly if you use Tesco vouchers for the tunnel. Have put Pirelli Scorpion all weather tyres on this year for added convenience/grip in the snow, but still carry snow chains (and have used them twice).
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FenlandSkier, I think it's avoid airports in general, especially at the moment (not that we are next season, but never mind).

AxsMan, good call on Harry Potter; one of those dealt with a bloody awful traffic jam (3 hours) on the A 74 one New Year, no problem.

In the end, it's whatever you're most comfortable with; there's no clear answer one way or the other. I prefer driving and to France I'd always choose that, unless there were other factors (which there often are), such as can't get away until the afternoon the hol starts.

What's driving to Austria to ski like, anyone?
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Easy solution to this - leave them at home with either grandparents or friends ! Job done. Next query..................?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Smokin Joe, Could I class you as my friend Laughing
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
richmond, I've driven to St Anton, Innsbruck and kitzbuhel, all very easy, French autoroute to Strasburg, cross the German border, Autobahn to Switzerland, Swiss autoroutes to Austrian border then Ausrtrian Autobahn to St Anton etc. Don't forgert to buy Swiss vignette and Astrian road toll stickers. As I remember it took about 10 hrs from St Anton to London, highlight of one particlar trip was flashing BMWs to move over at 140mph on the Autobahn, we had a Subaru estate with 5 passengers and roof box full of gear.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

140mph on the Autobahn, we had a Subaru estate with 5 passengers and roof box full of gear.

David@traxvax, Didi you use one of these, or couldn't it carry enough fuel?


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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
5 up + a roofbox probably meant a turning circle like a Thud as well Shocked
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Ray Zorro, If you need to ask you can't afford it Laughing Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The main advantage for us in driving has been that we aim to reach resort early morning on first sat and leave late afternoon second sat meaning that we get 8 days skiing snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We have driven loads and in the last 2 years on 3 trips with our son. We have found that either late afternoon, overnight or early starts work best, mainly because you can either use the ferry/tunnel to have a break, eat, change clothes and give milk for bed etc and you can also get the worst part of the drive out the way either a) in the dark so it gets light as you get further down or b) just do it then sleep - waking up far enough down to have a lazy drive into the valley's the next day. Personally i can't stand the Calais to Riems drive, the landscape is dull, the weather is usually dull and for 2.5hrs it feels like u are going nowhere, soon as you get the other side of Riems then you feel like you are going twice the speed you were before... snowHead

Sleeping usually works well as does the portable DVD player and getting out for a stretch too - we try and get out the car for an hour or so in Dijon and use it as an opportunity to get some supplies as we self cater and grab some food to eat too. Also good knowing that its only 3hrs or so to Sallanches from there (and the best part of the drive visually too - Jura/Genevois and then the Alps..) Our little one also loves the tunnels so he's happy to be in the car just to go through them... Laughing

I find driving in France so much less demanding than the UK and hence less tiring too - autoroutes get you point to point easily and smoothly and you have the benefit of your own transport once in the resort which is good if you want to explore other resorts, visit places or even hop down to the valley and buy stuff. Also on the way back you have the ability to stock up on food and wine which is a great incentive. Also as mentioned above if you time it right you get to ski on both saturdays which are excellent with nobody around...

One thing i would say is that the Police are more visible on the French roads these days we have been close a couple of times to getting stopped......SHOULD be ok doing 90ish though...apparently wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skinutter,
Quote:

Personally i can't stand the Calais to Riems drive, the landscape is dull, the weather is usually dull and for 2.5hrs it feels like u are going nowhere, soon as you get the other side of Riems then you feel like you are going twice the speed you were before...

Neat summary, although spotting the war grave cemetry's does give the kids something to look for as you pass across the Somme Confused
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skinutter, don't mind the Calais - Rheims section, it's the section from Rheims - Troyes that I hate, it's featureless and seems endless.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David@traxvax, we got caught in fog there last winter, awful!! It made me wish I hadn't booked a hotel in Reims.
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Did Bushmills - Les Carroz in a bus once!!!!!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
johnboy, Oi, get back to work you slacker!! Laughing wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
lisach, Two years ago.... 1) M20 closed because of lorry crash. 2) Ariive at tunnel 4 hours late. 3) 1/2 an hour from the tunnel in France, rear windscreen shatters. 4) Continue to 'overnight' hotel and arrive at 6am. Try to sleep for 4 hours. Fail.

It's Saturday. Rear windscreen won't be fixed 'til Monday.

So we arrived at our destination on Monday night.... taking 3 days to get there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
similarly......checked in at heathrow for 4pm flight to Geneva - delayed til 9pm, then cancelled due to fog. Managed to transfer ticket to first flight of the day from Gatwick, bus to Gatwick after recovering luggage (further hour) then tried to sleep on a row of plastic chairs in terminal - impossible with the looping security message EVERY 5 mins all night!!!!

Finally arrived in St Gervais afternoon the next day due to issue with coach from Airport....

There is no such thing as a guarantee when it comes to travel wink
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Have tried most combinations of the Basel-Calais route. The fastest route involves taking the autoroute between Reims and Calais. It's a bit slower and further to go on the free motorways through Luxembourg and Belgium but the 120 speed limit gives better economy and overall without the tolls it is a fair bit cheaper. Last time I tried to stay off the autoroute between Calais and Reims but it was painfully slow (4 hrs vs 2). South of Reims there are some fabulously straight D roads that go for 10s of KM at a time without a bend or a village.

We always do UK-Switzerland in one day, catching a mid afternoon ferry. The other way we always overnight in Calais and get breakfast on the ferry then we can cut it fine and get up at 6 for a 7AM crossing.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Yeah, we always did the Rheims-Calais bit by autoroute, then d roads thereafter.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skinutter wrote:
....

One thing i would say is that the Police are more visible on the French roads these days we have been close a couple of times to getting stopped......SHOULD be ok doing 90ish though...apparently wink


Good point. I tend to cruise around 85mph/130kph as it just feels right, as well as being legal wink But I did come a cropper a year or two back going through the Mont Blanc tunnel. The road was empty so I was bowling along around 65-70 (mph) when the flash went off behind me and the 70 KPH sign caught my attention Sad .

A not very smiling Italian policeman waved me over at the exit and I was taken off to an office with an armed guard! Shocked

Fortunately after paying the on the spot £40 fine they were all smiles again and no points on the licence. They even forgave me for not having my registration document with me. Needless to say I have been a bit more observant of the posted limits since then.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
We've done it for the last 5 years, starting when the twins were 1. Are now 6 and have a 4yr old as well. We take 2 overnight stops now, leave Thursday and cross to Calais and stay night, Friday gets us to Lyon and Sat in resort by lunchtime. This means that they are never in the car for more than a couple of hours max and leaves plenty of time to stop and the excellent rest areas with playgrounds.

Entertainment in car is looking at comics, sleeping (driver excluded), nursery rhyme tapes and comics.

Love the relaxed start and end to holiday, the fact holiday is extended and the fact we aren't reliant on anyone else.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I repeat everything! We have 5 & 8 year olds and they were in my cramped coupe!

We have driven from North of birmingham to Samoens (not much diff.). We find the best way to do it is to book tunnel/ferry for 9ish - that means we leave home 6.00 when almost light. 3 hours to Dover/Folkstone without stop - break while crossing by whichever method is a rest for everyone. Drive for 3-4 hours then stop for lunch at a services - they have play areas to use up some energy. At this point get the portable DVD player out - 1.5 hours peace & quiet - drive for 2-3, quick break - then another 2 hours should do it.

It feels really tough at about half way - but really is quite an easy drive - if you do similar crossing time it means most of the driving is in daylight - this makes it easier for the driver(s) too.

Actual driving time (engine on time on computer in car) 11hr:15min on the way 11:18 on the way back!!! Actual time taken 14 hours approx with all stops.

I would suggest that depending on your distance from airport - it is about 5 hours more traveling - and you have the conveniece of being able to take more luggage, get less hassle at customs and only your family to worry about if you need to f..... let off steam! Laughing
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

skinutter, don't mind the Calais - Rheims section, it's the section from Rheims - Troyes that I hate, it's featureless and seems endless.


Yeah, and there is only one fuel station on the stretch of the A26 between Chalons & Troyes. No matter how many times I drive it I always seem to forget and the damn light comes on just after I have passed the last petrol station Sad Last year we were bowling along quite nicely, I saw the sign for the petrol station, checked the guage, plenty of fuel, I thought great, I'll easily make it to the next one. 2 miles passed the petrol station the guage takes a nose dive the light comes on and I have to get 60 odd miles on 1.5 gallons!! B**ger... Shocked I finally crawled into the petrol station on vapour a very relieved man having dropped down to a veritable crawl using as little throttle as possible all the way. Was getting some very dissapproving looks from Mrs Big G Embarassed . Oh the embarassment of having to walk for petrol, I'd never have lived it down.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Big G, the moral of the tale being...............never trust the fuel guage, and fill up the tank anyway next time, or the looks you will get from Mrs Big G will be terrible!!! Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Helen Beaumont, Yeah I know...was fully intending to fill up but when you look at the guage and it is showing over 1/3 of a tank then 60 miles should be a walk in the park no matter how inaccurate the guage is. I can tell you that it was very much a sphincter moment Shocked as I watched the guage suddenly drop. Won't be doing it again, miles per tank being a fairly well known constant will be what I use from now on. Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Big G, one of the many things I'm grateful for on the Diesel Sharan is the huge fuel tank. Never been that empty Very Happy
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I've driven 10+ times now. With small kids, overnight through the ferry was great, but we're both Drs and used to functioning with no sleep. As they have got older breaking the journey with a ferry crossing has been better. the last thing you want to be doing is lugging sleeping kids up from a ferry car deck. Story tapes have always worked for us, and a stop in a small town on the way down for breakfast and again for lunch. We have variously seen Laon, Rouen, Tournus, Beaune, Chartres, Yvry, Chablis .... picking up some nice wine on the way.
The run home is always a slog but shouldn't be any more than 12 hours road time on very good roads with interesting views. Low point in all these journeys was changing a flat in the fast lasne of the Peripherique in rush hour, but that was before the motorways linked up in the late 80s
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I've driven to Serre Chevalier on 3 occasions and reckon the approx costs have been £250 for fuel and peage. The holiday each time was in a catered chalet and worked out at about £500 a head which included channel tunnel and ski pass. Therefore family of 4 £2250 before incidentals.

Much prefer driving - no airports, no drawn out transfers, and you can take pretty much what you want - load up and unload.

Used to do Serre Che in about 12/13 hours door to door with stops and drive through the night, leaving at around 10pm.
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The other amusing thing the first time I did it on a Ski weekend was playing..... "spot the French reg plate" as especially the first few hours is like a British race track of 4x4 with luggage rack on top - very amusing!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stevo_the_saddler, everyone seems to be Dutch when we travel, esp South of Reims.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Helen Beaumont, Or Belgian.

Maybe that is because the French don't seem to speed anymore, so if you are driving at the speed limit too you won't see many of them.
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Quote:

The nip over the Juras and down to Geneva is always nice

Yes it is. We've done that a few times in the summer but not yet in the winter. I think they had some heavy snow up there last winter - what's it like then? In reasonable weather I think we'll give it a try next year, because journey always seems to go quicker off the motorway. Last summer we drove back all the way off autoroute and although it took much longer, measured by the clock, especially as we were in "stopping for picnics" mode, it actually seemed less of a slog. On the motorways I find myself doing things like putting on a CD and promising myself lunch when it ends, or trying to calculate when I've driven 5km without looking at the wee markers. Sad, really. This isn't driving with kids, it's driving on my own whilst hubbie sleeps. He swears he can't do more than 30 mins on the autoroute without becoming dangerously drowsy. But on ordinary roads, even fairly boring ones, there's more to look at, more to do, the time passes quicker even if the miles don't. And he can drive for an hour or so! Money saved on peage can buy some good meals.
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I've seen some recent postings that suggest the route to the alps can be done on avoiding the tolls and even the autoroute. They are quite right, you CAN, but , IMHO you'd be crazy to try that, and add in winter, and the kids?

Consider a long journey in the UK, Glasgow to Dover, excluding the MWays. (Sat Nav - TomTom)
Mway - 7 1/2 hrs 486 miles
Avoid Mways\ tolls - 12 hrs 504 miles (probably more like 16 hrs!)

Who, in their right minds would consider doing that! Motor home and caravan club, maybe? Add in the kids (are we there yet?) a recipie for divorce en route! Unless you are really into grottling around, gawping at each an every little town, it would soon be a drag. For me, my holidays are hard earned. There may be an efficeient, non toll road route, and I'm sure some hero will point you that way. Although I really like driving, and do drive to the Savoie alps, the end game is a ski holiday. Arriving there, efficiently, having more choice on route, but still getting there to ski. I'll leave a day early, come back a day later but get 1 1/2 to 2 days extra ski-ing. No kids in tow, though!

stevo_the_saddler is right in what he said earlier, about what to expect if you drive.

IMHO - Keep it simple, just pick an efficient route, pay the tolls, dont rush, common sense.

Have fun what ever you decide..... snowHead
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