 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, linking on from the thread "Oh dear - here we go again!" which is discussing lessons on carving, as a skier who (As i far as I know!) has only ever had lessons in carving techniques ( I think....), how do you ski any other way 
Also, I was taught (bear in mind I've only had a weeks worth of lessons), to put all (or as much as you can) on the ski that makes you turn - the right leg when turning left, etc. Most of the pictures and advanced skiers appear to use both - which I started to do during my 2 weeks away, but not putting much weight on the "wrong" leg as far as I can remember. So is this right/goodthing/bad thing etc?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've had far too much wine and whisky this evening to begin to answer this, but to dip a toe or two in the slush there are a couple of things to understand - viz. you can turn your skis (with your feet and legs) and your skis can turn themselves. How and when you blend those elements is the key to it all 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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eddyr, there are three things that you can do to your skis: tip them, turn them, and push/pull on them. In a pure carve, you are tipping them, but not turning them at all. When the ski is tipped and you stand on it, the center of the ski presses farther than the wider tip and tail, creating an arc. Riding that arc is a carved turn.
Alternatively, you could stand flat on your skis and simply turn them with your feet (pivoting your feet on the snow, which changes the location of the tips and tails). If you do this while moving, you'll redirect yourself if you tip just a little uphill.
Skiing involves a wide blend of these three skills (plus the foundation of a solid stance and balance together with effective use of your arms/hands/poles) to accomplish your specific objectives in various terrain and condition situations.
I hope this helps...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hey, that's what I said (hic) 
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Why do you need to tip them, why not just stand on them and they turn themselves, unless that is what you mean by tipping them...!!!!
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JT, if you don't tip them, they won't turn themselves; they'll be flat on the snow... 
In other words, yes, I think that's what I mean by tipping them. Tipping them means moving one edge of the ski down and the other up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
why not just stand on them and they turn themselves
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but they won't necessarily turn themselves quick enough. To do short, quick, turns, you need to turn them, maybe quite aggressively. That "windscreen wiper" exercise, where you keep the skis flat, and swivel them around the feet, is the one which I find gives you the feeling best. I find that exercise very difficult. I practise on easy button lifts; I once saw an EFS instructor, from a chairlift, going up a poma doing big sweeping windscreen wipers all the way, which gave me the idea. Those lads who can ride pomas sideways and backwards have the same skills; very impressive. And for short turns down steep slopes there's sfa carving involved, just swivelling and scraping to kill the speed, very well illustrated and explained in Phil Smith's "Ultimate control" video. "Skidding" isn't necessarily a dirty word!
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pam w, hmmm... I guess you'll need to count me among the unbelievers... While "drifting" isn't so bad, pushing your tails around really is, and I strongly discourage it. Drifting means that you allow the skis to slide along the snow and not simply follow the arc of the edge, but you don't do this by pushing the tails around. Think of it like this: Would you intentionally put your (rear-wheel-drive) car into a skid by punching the gas around a corner? No, but you might allow the tires to drift for other reasons, right?
Similar in skiing.
You can do short, quick turns with carved arcs if you can get the angles necessary:
http://www.vailbcschools.com/SHORTCARVED.htm
This gives some idea, although you can increase the edge angle dramatically more than that:
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| eddyr wrote: |
| OK, linking on from the thread "Oh dear - here we go again!" which is discussing lessons on carving, as a skier who (As i far as I know!) has only ever had lessons in carving techniques ( I think....), how do you ski any other way |
Very few people spend all their time carving. Most people, for most of the time, will blend the three steering techniques depending on conditions, slope steepness, etc. You might be doing it subconsciously, but you will be using a combination of foot rotation, edge control and pressure control. Like pam w I recommend the video from Phil Smith at Snoworks which is the clearest and most straightforward description of these steering techniques that I've yet seen.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ssh, I think that the term 'skid' is being used to describe different actions. I know the video that Pam referred to, and have skied with that ski school for quite a few years. The skidding that they talk about is more of a controlled sideways movement to be used on very steep terrain to control descent rather than a pushing out your heels heels on more moderate piste. I think it's just a semantics difference rather than a difference in technical analysis.
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rob@rar, that's good, but the exercise she described is a windshield washer pushing the tails around. That was my concern...
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You know it makes sense.
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ssh, at a guess I'd say that what Pam saw had the pivot point at the feet and not the tails, and was controlled using foot/leg rotation. Useful exercise, but perhaps not best to describe it as 'windscreen wipers' which, as you say, has the pivot point at one end not the middle.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Braquage?
Anyways:
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| Most of the pictures and advanced skiers appear to use both - which I started to do during my 2 weeks away, but not putting much weight on the "wrong" leg as far as I can remember. So is this right/goodthing/bad thing etc? |
Without wishing to get into a whole new can of worms on here - don't confuse two footed skiing (ie; steering, active inner leg) with weight on both skis.
And. For a further can of worms...... By oberservation, and in teaching sessions, 80% of the people who think they are carving (cleanly), aren't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The only person I can recall carving as a matter of course over the last season is Charlotte, everybody else varies what they do for their own reasons, and that includes two ski instrcutors who didn't carve although the terrain at the time might have had something to do with it.
ssh, I wouldn't use the word 'tip' myself but agree its a question of semantics
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ssh wrote: |
| Would you intentionally put your (rear-wheel-drive) car into a skid by punching the gas around a corner? No, but you might allow the tires to drift for other reasons, right? |
Absolutely I would. That's the point of a rear wheel drive car
(Edit for my appalling spelling)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Which takes the least effort?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Without wishing to get into a whole new can of worms on here - don't confuse two footed skiing (ie; steering, active inner leg) with weight on both skis. |
Can we have a quick peek into that can, or should I start another thread?
On the few Monday nights that I'm able to get over to the Lions Ski Club at Castleford the tips and drills freely given out (many thanks rjs) attempt to have us carving as much as possible. It's a case of getting the skis on their edges asap, bending them, keeping them there and then getting them over onto their other edge asap (OK that's simplified again).
At the Warren Smith session on the same slope a day later I was told, for use in more difficult snow conditions, to stop riding my edges like that and get steering more with the inner leg.
As a person of limited brain function I'm struggling to concentrate on carving the outside ski while also concentrating on steering the inside ski.
Have I missed the point here?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Does anyone remember when the ski industry developed the 'Carving' ski?
I always found it funny that some people thought that prior to them being 'invented' people didn't or couldn't carve turns
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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marc gledhill, Welcome to the can of worms!
It's really difficult to explain on paper and not sound like EpicSki. I'll gladly work though any thoughts or concepts or confusions that you may have, but on a slope.
But if you start a new specific thread, I'm sure I won't be able to resist 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 6-10-06 10:19; edited 1 time in total
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| marc gledhill wrote: |
As a person of limited brain function I'm struggling to concentrate on carving the outside ski while also concentrating on steering the inside ski.
Have I missed the point here? |
marc gledhill, understanding this stuff is key to stepping up a notch as a skier. I'll give you my take, which may not be entirely accurate, but reflects where I've got to on this.
In truth, every turn that most people do has a component of edging and a component of steering (let's ignore which leg is steering at the moment).
So consider a range where at:
10 - your skis are purely carving - you put them on skis on edge and do a pure carve around the natural turn radius of the ski
1 - your skis are completely flat on the snow - there's no edging and you turn the skis through pure steering.
Many skiers believe they should be carving all the time. That's not the case. Good skiers are ones that can use that entire 1-10 range and do it on demand and when they want to.
As a gross generalisation (which isn't true) - the narrower and bumpier the terrain, the more you want to consider losing your edges. So flatter skis are a useful tool in bumps - although, just to add to the confusion, you can carve bumps (arrrrrrggghhh!). 
How you currently ski might be somewhere between 3 and 7, say. Let's say it's at 6.
A lot of on-piste ski instruction (and fashion) focusses on getting you to pure carving. Expanding your range from 6 to 10. (Although some people think that the only legitimate place to be is 10.)
One of Warren's concerns is that many recreational skiers don't, now, know how to steer - so much of what he does tends to focus on steering - and trying to expand your range from 1 - 6. But he does "do" carving.
The inside leg thing is relevant to both of these. It's important, if you want to ski parallel, that you really do ski parallel. If you don't then, when carving, you'll restrict the degree to which you can edge and, when trying to ski with flat skis you'll have a tendancy to trip over the inside ski unless you get it out of the way.
This stuff does reinforce a point. Each "guru" with a DVD has their own take on skiing. So if you've done stuff with Warren Smith then I'd highly recommend the Phil Smith DVD, which I got recently and provides a nice counterbalance.
...and remember...this stuff's all supposed to be fun [/list]
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...oh, feel free to correct / discuss. I know I've got a lot to learn myself...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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carving skis, bmx bikes and battle star galactica all came out in the same week some time in the v. early 80's
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski, I know it's race training for prepared slopes, I hope I didn't come over as being in any way critical. Rob has passed on tips that have made quite dramatic improvements to my carving and I'm very grateful. I'll never be a racer, but my piste skiiing has come on in leaps and bounds.
It's only over the last couple of years that I've grasped how much I need to alter the carving technique, that's been drilled into me since I first started fifteen odd years ago, to ski other terrain effectively.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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marc gledhill,
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I hope I didn't come over as being in any way critical
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No - not at all 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
but steer the inner
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When you are walking or running, which foot leads when you want to change direction ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Guys, I think that you're overthinking this. When I want to turn left I press down with my right foot, and my skis carve to the left, the harder I press, and the more I lean over, the sharper the turn. The weight distribution across my two skis is dynamic, varying from 0-100% on either ski, depending on conditions, far more important is being in the correct position across my skis, so that I can vary my position and balance with ease, without being thrown about.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kramer wrote: |
| When I want to turn left I press down with my right foot, and my skis carve to the left....... |
<pedant>Not unless U also do something else it won't</pedant>
You'd just ski in a straight line on one ski.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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marc gledhill, maybe his boots aren't set up right!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ski wrote: |
| When you are walking or running, which foot leads when you want to change direction ? |
You've never seen my side-step on the Rugby field then. All weight on inside edge of the outside foot, now where've we heard that before
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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marc gledhill,
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You've never seen my side-step on the Rugby field then. All weight on inside edge of the outside foot, now where've we heard that before
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But what's the other one doing ?
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marc gledhill, ok then, when I want to carve left, I shift my centre of gravity to the left, whilst pushing down with my right foot.
Like I said, you can overthink skiing. It's actually fairly simple.
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ok then, when I want to carve left, I shift my centre of gravity to the left, whilst pushing down with my right foot.
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In which case you're not rolling the ski over onto it's edge using your lower joints.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, I would suggest that shifting my centre of gravity from one side to the other automatically rolls the ski onto it's edge?
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ski, I do get your point, I was being daft. In fact the sidestep is a perhaps a decent analogy after all as pretty early on my inside foot will be twisted and then moved in the direction I want to go.
But I do that without thinking which sadly I an't do on skis yet 
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FAQ
