Poster: A snowHead
|
If you are driving to the Alps this is a skill that you will require to know and this useful link provides this inforrmation along with other useful tips ( especially useful if this is your first trip ) on what to pack in your car for the trip.
Link is here
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Slightly dodgy info here:
1. Snow chains must be fitted to the driving wheels of your vehicle:
* Rear-wheel drive: fit to rear wheels *
In fact........snow chains should be fitted to the steering wheels of your vehicle(which,for most vehicles are also the driving wheels--front wheel drive)
If you have a rear wheel drive car,you will need two sets of chains for front and back.Not much point in having drive if you cant steer the thing
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
snowskisnow, Sorry, don't think your right. In nearly 20 years of driving skiing I have never seen a rear wheel drive car with chains on the front wheels. (Mine is front wheel drive)
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 27-09-06 23:07; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
gsb, which just goes to show how many people don't think, rear wheel drive cars should have chains on both front and rear wheels, you need them on the driven wheels to transfer force to the road, but you must have them on the steering wheels or you have no control, the ideal situation for all vehicles is for all wheels to have chains as this seriously reduces the chances of skidding.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
The ideal situation may be to have them on all four, again I have never seen this. The number of posts we see from people saying shall I get a set at all, let alone the costs of buying two. I think it is fair to say people stop to put their chains on when they they have no traction not because they can't steer.
Quote from the RUD chains website
Snowchains are fitted to the driving wheels. Some people fit snow chains to the non driving wheels as well, which certainly improves all round stability, but is definitely not necessary.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 27-09-06 23:34; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I have only once seen anyone fitting ladder type chains, as described in this link - a grizzled French builder with an ancient 2cv. Most chains you buy or hire now seem to be (laughingly so-called) easyfit type, where you shove the solid bit behind the wheel, then get muck all the way up to the shoulder leaning down and grabbing the end which has got deflected by a big hard lump of dirty snow, then hoik up both ends and slot them together before shoving it down the back again (not forgetting to do up the chain across the front shoulder first) then desperately try to get the bottom chains to do up reasonably tightly before your hands freeze to death, then jump in car and drive 50 metres or so, then find another spot safe enough to stop and tighten them up properly. I always have rubber gloves in the car but never seem to use them - too clumsy. A chunk of polystyrene makes a good kneeling pad, and keeps your knees warm. You also need a big strong poly bag to put them in when you eventually get them off (far harder than getting them on....) because there is no chance of getting them back into the titchy box they came in. Apropos the discussion above the ski busses in our resort (big coaches and smaller mini bus sizes) used chains on the rear (presumably driving) wheels only, as far as I can remember, and they got where they were going with a minimum of fuss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowskisnow, the advice to fit chains to the driving wheels is correct. D G Orf is probably correct that fitting to all four wheels would be better but I haven't seen that done. I have seen quite a few BMWs unable to get up the hill because the chains were fitted to the front wheels .
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowskisnow, unless the car is overly steered (not "in oversteer" ), in RWD the wheels that'll lose traction first are the drive wheels, so if you have one set of chains, that's where they should go. If the drive wheels haven't lost traction, the front wheels shouldn't do either unless you're steering too sharply for the speed you're going at.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Hi,
We have a rear-wheel drive mini-bus and you definately fit chains to the drive wheels- so in our case the back wheels!!. There is a great myth about rear wheel drive cars in snow . In last winter whcih was the longest and snowest winter in the Alps for the last 10 years or so we only needed to fit our snow chains twice!!
Maybe our mini-bus is different to a car with the weight but we have no problem on the snow. Like someone said our ski buses our rear-wheel drive and you ought to see the roads they get up around here!!
The more important bit is snow tires- if you don't have snow tires even 4 wheel drives have problems in the snow.
But saying that fitting snow chains and taking them off is a real pain I spent a couple of hours last week fitting and taking snow off to practice for the winter months!!
Nigel
|
|
|
|
|
|
djfletcher wrote: |
We have a rear-wheel drive mini-bus and you definately fit chains to the drive wheels- so in our case the back wheels!!. There is a great myth about rear wheel drive cars in snow . In last winter whcih was the longest and snowest winter in the Alps for the last 10 years or so we only needed to fit our snow chains twice!!
|
I used to fit chains only to the rear wheels of my BMW... seemed to cope with the conditions okay. Last time I fitted my chains was Jan 2005 and I drive in the mountains almost every day during the winter... but then I have a car that can cope with the conditions (or rather my wife does).
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
is there something similar to snow chains called snow-socks for putting on the tyres? - apparently easier to fit. If so do they do the job or would you need chains. My brother told me this so it could be complete rubbish cos he knows I'm really gullible.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Quote: |
last winter whcih was the longest and snowest winter in the Alps for the last 10 years or so we only needed to fit our snow chains twice
|
they must be a lot more efficient at road clearing in Austria than in France! I had the chains on the minibus at least 10 times last year. It snowed overnight practically every Friday/Saturday from mid-Jan to late-March so I had to get them on to take people down to the airport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
hels_t wrote: |
is there something similar to snow chains called snow-socks for putting on the tyres? - apparently easier to fit. If so do they do the job or would you need chains. My brother told me this so it could be complete rubbish cos he knows I'm really gullible. |
There is something called a "snow sock" or "Auto Sock" - scroll down to the bottom of this link to see a picture. They performed badly in tests when compared to snow chains and are not recommended by the German & Austrian Automobile associations.
http://www.oeamtc.at/tests/ketten/
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
ben wright wrote: |
Quote: |
last winter whcih was the longest and snowest winter in the Alps for the last 10 years or so we only needed to fit our snow chains twice
|
they must be a lot more efficient at road clearing in Austria than in France! I had the chains on the minibus at least 10 times last year. It snowed overnight practically every Friday/Saturday from mid-Jan to late-March so I had to get them on to take people down to the airport. |
Yes they do spend a long time clearing the roads here, but we found the snow tires coped very well. Also if we got up and there was lots of snow we tended not to go out in the van!!
This year however we are doing more transfers so we will just have to go out.
There was one occassion at night when we had to take a guest to the airport although even the autobahn was bad so we dropped him off at the railway station put the chains on and headed home!!!- Luckily he was a friend and so didn't mind.
I hope this year we have less snow in the village or not for 5 months of the year like last year. I want to spend less time snow clearing
Nigel
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
djfletcher wrote: |
I want to spend less time snow clearing |
Amen to that. As well as piling the snow up around the minibus, the plough also shoves a load of it down the steps from the car park to our chalet which results in about half and hour's digging for me each time it snows. Just what I want at 7AM when I've got to get people out by 8AM to get to the airport.
By early-March, I'd dug so much snow off our path that the sides of the trench you walked through was above head height.
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Quote: |
There is something called a "snow sock" or "Auto Sock" - scroll down to the bottom of this link to see a picture. They performed badly in tests when compared to snow chains and are not recommended by the German & Austrian Automobile associations.
|
I followed a car fitted with these snow socks up a very difficult road the winter before last - it was the only time all year I had had to put chains on top of my snow tyres, having done a major skid at very slow speed. They seemed to be getting along fine. They are certainly easier to put on (though more expensive) and a pair of snow socks you put on at the first hint of trouble is going to be a lot more effective than chains left too late, because of the fear of putting them on. On that occasion I surprised myself by getting the chains on, in a blizzard, in about four minutes flat but often it takes longer.
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
ben wright, there seems to be some sort of plough drivers guide that dicatates they have to be as cussed as possible, not only do we have our local plough driver using our garden as his favourite dump but he plays slalom with the poles we put up to indicate where the path used to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Quote: |
I have only once seen anyone fitting ladder type chains, as described in this link - a grizzled French builder with an ancient 2cv.
|
Brilliant!! I would love to see a 2cv with snow chains on trying to get up a mountain
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Quote: |
Brilliant!! I would love to see a 2cv with snow chains on trying to get up a mountain
_________________
|
Potentally as effective as a Land Rover.
2Cvs have excellent clearance, front wheel drive and very narrow tyres. Because they are so light they are easy to push and lift the wheels out of the snow. They were designed to run across fields and are therefore superb in snow as well.
Their sucessor was the Fiat panda, particularly the 4x4 version which with decent tyres was also fantastic in winter.
Not sure that their is anything as effective around these days, certainly not many of the big 4X4s which are just too heavy for deep snow work.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
If you are in a situation of having to BE somewhere that you may OFTEN need to install snow traction on your vehicle to GET there -- OR -- your vehicle [ such as an Audi ] doesn't have clearance for "conventional" types of snow traction, you should investigate THESE --
http://www.spikes-spiders.com
on and off in literally seconds after initall installation of locking hub
I don't SELL em, but am aware of their convenience, and appreciate their quality.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 9-10-06 12:50; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
boredsurfin, that'd be fine for the flat bit but might not work so well on the steps!
Maybe I should get one of the ploughs they're selling and attach it to the minibus. Our neighbour has a homemade snow-plough on his van - it's an old snowboard which he can raise or lower with a lever in the cab.
Of course, in La Ros you need one of these
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
FenlandSkier,
Quote: |
Guide Price £46,000 -£ 38,500 *** PLEASE NOTE THESE VEHICLES ARE NOT UK MINISTRY OF DEFENCE OWNED VEHICLES. For further details and full ballistic specification please contact D. Landy Sales Director only.
|
Am I the only to find that quote slightly worrying
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Highwayman wrote: |
If you are in a situation of having to BE somewhere that you may OFTEN need to install snowtraction on your vehicle to GET there -- OR -- your vehicle [ such as an Audi ] doesn't have clearance for "conventional" types of snowtraction, you should investigate THESE --
http://www.spikes-spiders.com
on and off in literally seconds after initall installation of locking hub
I don't SELL em, but am aware of their convenience, and appreciate their quality. |
The above looks like a pitch (and probably is), but I've used Spikes Spiders and once you've fitted the hub, which you do in the privacy of your own home (as it were), the chains are indeed a doddle (a couple of minutes rather than seconds). They're bloody expensive to buy or hire though, but I'll use them again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nah - not a "pitch" --just a suggestion for the bloke who has to make a "lot of transfers" as he put it. These things save a LOT of time -- they ARE expensive though.
Little "trick" to ease their installation as well as many other types of snowtraction -- an 8" piece of 2x4 to drive the tire onto before installation. Reduces the size of the tire "footprint" by MORE then half
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Highwayman, I haves seen some tests (DB,?) that suggest that spiders are not as grippy as chains and I can add that from experience I think chains do give more grip as I slid my car with spiders on which made me buy winter tyres.
Pure logic applies I reckon, Chains are all chain in contact with the 'road' surface with spikes it's a mixture of plastic and chain and thus plastic is not as grippy as chain. Also spikes take up a lot of room in the boot of the car compared to chains. But when chains don't fit or you find chains 'difficult' spikes are the answer!
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Quote: |
there seems to be some sort of plough drivers guide that dicatates they have to be as cussed as possible
|
One lunchtime last year our local plough driver, having pushed the snow up into long piles diagonally across the road (prior to pushing them over the edge) decided that lunch time had arrived and left them there, thus preventing anything other than another snow plough from using the cul de sac up to our apartments (which is a public road). It would have taken him a few minutes to shove a single line through before he left. I think they also enjoy coming towards you down the road, when you have pulled carefully in as far as you dare to let them pass, clattering along with all their chariot-blade sythes out till the very last minute before folding them in. Still, we love 'em. One of my favourite winter experiences is seeing the orange flashing light which indicates that the plough has come up the road, on my bedroom ceiling at 5 or 6 am. You just know you will get up and look out of the window at magic. Never fails. It's especially welcome on days when I have to drive early to Geneva airport.
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
pam w wrote: |
Still, we love 'em. One of my favourite winter experiences is seeing the orange flashing light which indicates that the plough has come up the road, on my bedroom ceiling at 5 or 6 am. You just know you will get up and look out of the window at magic. Never fails. It's especially welcome on days when I have to drive early to Geneva airport. |
Ditto
I'm happy to be woken up by the small plough that the resort uses to clear the access road to our underground garage, which runs just outside my bedroom window. It's always early in the morning, and I always leap out of bed to take a look at whatever the snow gods have sent us overnight!
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
DB,
Quote: |
how much is your safety really worth? |
and your passenger's, if it's your Wife and children the need for winter tyres becomes much more apparent much faster
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I wasn't sure that buying winter tyres last season was going to be the right choice, but I now think that it was one of the wisest purchases I've ever made. It was useful to have them in resort: didn't once have to put chains on, when lots of other people were struggling and cursing at the side of the road. But what really convinced me the tyres were wonderful was the drive back to Calais in atrocious weather - there were blizzard conditions from Lyon to just outside of Calais, with three or four inches of snow accumulating on the autoroutes. There was chaos on the roads, with dozens of cars sliding onto the verges or into the central reservation. Although it was a really tricky drive, not once did I feel I had insufficient grip on the roads - I don't think I would have felt this way with my regular set of tyres. Although it costs more to have an extra set of tyres in the garage, you're only using one set at a time so when you are clocking up mileage on your winter set, your summer tyres are having their lifetime extended.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
There are several models of Spikes Spider. IIRC, one (probably the easiest to put on but very bulky in the boot) is just a number of radial plastic arms which are bent across the running surface of the tyre and carry some grippy stuff. Another is that shown in the DB's linked review, which look a bit minimalist. The ones I used (the 'Carrier' model, IIRC) were, so far as what was on the running surface of the tyre was concerned, pretty much like any other light chain; several (4?) joined circumferential bands of chain with knobbly grippy things. They performed well, although I didn't have the chance to test them in particularly tricky conditions.
Spikes Spiders claim to be usable when the tyre/wheel combo indicates that snow chains cannot be fitted, as they don't have anything extending down the inboard face of the tyre/wheel. They fitted fine onto my car, which was indicated as 'don't fit'.
I suppose that the weak point (assuming that you have a model which provides adequate grip) is that there is nothing on the inboard side of the tyre/wheel, so that in the wrong circumstances they could conceivably come off the running surface of the tyre. This seems pretty unlikely in normal use, as they are adjusted (before fitting, I think) to fit fairly snuggly.
The good thing about them is that because they're easy to fit, one is perhaps more likely to fit them sooner than later, with obvious benefits (such as not having to do it on a hairpin bend with a queue of traffic behind you). They're probably an unnecessary luxury for frequent users, but as a once a year (if that) user, I'd go for them again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The "carrier" model is a beefed up version of the "sport" model tested. I very much doubt the performance will be that different. A snow chain hugs the tyre from both sides, the sportrax/rud devices look only to be held in place from one side. Traction, braking and handling can't match a proper snowchain and you will be at a disadvantage when you really need something to get you through the snow.
If snow chains won't fit your car's wheels then fair enough but otherwise you are paying a lot of money for easy fitting at the expense of poor performance - each to their own.
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, you're right, the SS chains do not extend over the 'back' of the tyre/wheel and as I said previously, presumably this could be a weakness in certain conditions.
Obviously, it is the lack of kit on the 'back' of the tyre/wheel which makes these chains easy to fit and allows them to be used on tyre/wheel combos which won't accept 'normal' chains, so I suppose that, like everything else, it's a trade off. I'd be surprised if at moderate speeds on normal (mountain) roads, the SS would come off, but I don't know.
They're certainly pricey. I hired them and the difference in a week's rental compared to the total price of a skiing hol was not great. If I used chains frequently so that I became used to fitting them, I'd use regular chains. For very occasional users (especially with 'no fit' tyre/wheels) SS chains seem a reasonable option. I could see myself driving up/down the mountain in snow saying 'I think we'll make it without the chains' and then having to put them on in difficult circumstances to the wild approval of my family. At least with SS chains, there's almost no disincentive to actually using them.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
richmond,
If you are travelling the 'main' routes you will probably get away with the Spider Spikes. With good winter tyres chances are you won't need to use the chains or SS's.
Most people look at the SS'sand assume because they look like chains the SS's will be almost as good. The reports don't just say they are not quite as good they say don't use them they are ####.
Looking at it another way - when it snows really heavy and everybody gets out to struggle with snow chains, some will just clip on the spider spikes and be away. Further down the road the snow gets heavier and heavier, two tyre trenches will probably be formed in the snow. If the spiders are as bad as the reports suggest then you are likely to get stuck well before a car with proper chains.
Either
1.) As it's difficult to pass a vehicle when the tyre trenches exist then when you get stuck you hold up the cars behind you (not fun it its on a hill and you slide backwards). If you are slipping for traction then they have to wait behind you and in turn lose any momentum.
2.) You get stuck on your own.
Basically because you go for the easy fit option other people could be getting stuck behind you or you are out on your own.
Which would your family approve of most, you having to fit the chains or sleeping it out in the car?
I've used my chains probably once per year, it's not as if I'm an expert fitter - everybody I know has the chore of dealing with chains in the winter. They are not the easiest things in the world to fit but it's not impossible.
If you do use the Spider Spikes please consider the cars around you - let them pass where possible, leave plenty of room between you and them because your braking distance will be much shorter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
DB, OK, mate, point taken.
|
|
|
|
|
|