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Avalanche Safety Equipment Question

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I’ve been considering off piste this year, for the first time. I’ve seen transceiver, shovel, probe, backpack as the basic equipment set and it goes without saying that a professional guide or training is required.

What I’ve also seen are devices available such as:

1) Avalung or Avalung rucksac
2) Air bag systems
3) Avalanche ball

The real intention is not to get caught up in an avalanche, as the stats aren’t in your favour if you do. Sad

I dont believe they are relevant to my level or the tuition I intend to take, they certainly arent specified by the schools I've contacted. I know its possible that people may take unnecessary risk, believing they are 'protected' behind technology. I'm more interested in if these are actually a practical solution by those out there who already ski off piste or backcountry and have considered one of these systems.
Thanks.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I don't think any of those 3 are seen as must haves in the same way as the transceiver, probe and shovel. They are slightly different since they are only useful for saving your own skin rather than those you are skiing with.

That said, I'm probably going to get myself an Avalung rucksac this year. The old Avalung was a bit of a pain because you had to wear it on top of all your clothes so if you wan't to take off a layer to you had to fiddle with the Avalung every time. The pack just goes on at the start of the day without even having to think about it

I'm put off the airbag by cost and weight considerations mainly. I've never come across anyone using the ball - does't seem like a ringing endorsement
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just a thought but would an avalung backpack be more prone to not being with you once you stop?
I've actually been thinking about one too though, not really for saving me in an avalanche but for if I get stuck in a tree well - this has happened to me a few times and I can see how it would be very easy to suffocate there without the 50% chance of being killed by trauma!! Sad
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stuarth, i've wondered that myself. i don't think there were any guarantees that the original would stay on (you hear about people being dug out of avalanches with most of their clothes ripped off) but on the other hand:

1. i'm much more likely to wear the backpack (maybe illogical but that's the way it is)
2. no figures to back it up, but can't help but feel that a slide which is violent enough to rip a pack off you is more likely to kill you through trauma anyway. the avalung is there for situations where you get buried but not totally beaten up

i guess that the benefits of an avalung are only a bit better than marginal. however, they aren't too expensive, the fact that it's incorporated into a piece of kit i would carry anyway and the fact that they have saved lives in real situations makes them worthwhile IMO
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
what about if the airbags were as cheap as a transceiver ?
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Does anyone make a pack with ABS and avalung built in?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Apparently not, Avalung packs seem to be just the Anarchist and the Covert model... and neither are cheap.

I think I would rather spend the money on the airbag if I was going to get either. The difficulty is that whilst the rest of avalanche gear is hidden, I am not sure I am ready to make the "I am the kind of skiier who skis terrain where I need one of these things" fashion statements, even if the real danger may actually only just be over the edge of the piste. The original avalung does look pretty well hidden, but I wonder what the evidence base is. They list 4 rescues on their site, most of which sound pretty quick.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
avalung packs are new this season - don't think they're actually available in the shops yet, although some websites have them available for pre-ordering.

the ABS equipment seems quite a bit more bulky and cumbersome than the avalung, which is what puts me off. also, not sure what the rules are about taking pressurised gas cannisters on planes. and, frankly, the packs the abs is incorporated into just look a bit cr@ppy. black diamond would be one of the top candidates if i was looking for a conventional pack so having a handy bit of safety equipment incorporated looks good to me
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
stoatsbrother,

Quote:

I am not sure I am ready to make the "I am the kind of skiier who skis terrain where I need one of these things" fashion statements



I'm not sure that's the way to make decisions about the safety gear you use ?

I'm with Arno, the Avalung looks a good piece of kit. But I'll wait to get one when my current rucksack wears out.

I'd say - if this is your first trips into the fluffy stuff, you don't want too much weight in your sack....so maybe start with just a trasceiver and shovel.

It's probaby worth hiring stuff for you first few trips - then you can compare what the various models are like to live with.

Make sure that the rucksack you use will carry skis easily wink
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
ski, believe me, I agree. But we are all susceptible to a certain amount of peer pressure and influence, and we have all had a snigger at middle-aged men driving menoporsches and gear-freaks with the longest lens on their SLR they can carry etc etc. Is waiting till your pack wears out a better way to decide when to buy safety gear?! wink

I still wonder about avalungs in packs too... I wonder if they are better as separate things worn under your top layer. I suspect that if you put your mouth round the mouthpiece of a pack-based one before the slide stops you may need extensive dental work later....
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

I still wonder about avalungs in packs too... I wonder if they are better as separate things worn under your top layer.


We have to remember that the best thing is to not get avalanched !

For an Avalung to be any good, I'll need to wear it. I've seen the orginal versions, and by the time you have a pack, harness etc on, I think they would be very uncomfortable. Having it integrated into a pack seems to be a practical solution...

Quote:

Is waiting till your pack wears out a good way to decide when to but safety gear?!


Nope - and I certainly wouldn't apply that argument to transceiver, shovel or lessons.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ski, Agreed... and I have just ordered a new transceiver because my X1 is so uncomfortable, so if anyone is looking for a 2 year old x1. Also upgrading to a metal shovel after comments here about plastic ones.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stoatsbrother wrote:
I still wonder about avalungs in packs too... I wonder if they are better as separate things worn under your top layer.


the recommended way to wear the avalung is OVER your top layer so it makes more of a fashion statement (if you care about these things) than one incorporated into a pack. it also means that if you want to take layers on or off you have to fiddle with the avalung every time
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
stoatsbrother, good find. IMV ABS is the better option as you only have to activate it at the start of the slide/avalanche. Once you're in the middle of the slide you may not be able to get to the avalungs mouth piece. Also your chances of being killed by associated trauma will be less if you manage to stay on top of the snow (i think). Until now i had not considered getting one 'cos of the costs, but at that price i am tempted.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
btw I have the outer layer avalung, it isn't really that hard to put on, or off, just over the head/shoulder, 2 straps and you are done.

Having said that I don't tend to put it on unless I'm going off-piste, which means if I'm going for a day "mostly" on piste, and nip off occasionaly I don't wear it.

So was looking with interest at the Avalung rucksacks...

Cheers,


Greg
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