 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hey guys.
First my specs.
Lenght: 191cm/6'3''
Weight: 105kg/230lbs
Style: Old school, like to step into my skis with all my kg´s.
Likes to ride: Trees, easily accessible offpiste and some groomed. I do not hike into the back country.
Im trying to decide what ski I want to buy to complement my Völkl G31s. I love the old G31s and they are gonna remain my primary Groomers.
Im going to Fernie for 3 weeks this winter and feel I do want a tree/powder complement.
I know I could have listed tons of other skis that would be both better skis and better complements but atm cash is a constraint.
First let me say that I do want to complement with a ski that has good groomed characteristics as well because I will use it in other places then fernie. I will carry both my skis to Norway and the Alps as well. On days where I ski 50/50 I want to be able to use this new ski.
The ski should be about 60% offpist 40% pist or max 70/30.
I want the ski to be a little bit softer then my G31s but still not soft. It should have a kick back in it but yet be easily manouverable in the trees and powder.
I do know the Nitrous and Karma are different since the Karma is a twin tip. But I do not need the ski to be a twintip since Im oldschool.
The deals Ive found are
Last years Völkl Karma + binding for about 555 Euro.
Last years Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous + binding for about 372 Euro.
Which ski do you think would suite me the best for the fernie trip?
Which ski do you think would suite me the best for a 50-50 day in Alps or Norway?
Thanks in advance.
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
TexMurphy, see there are some killer deals out there!
I've skied the Karmas and really enjoyed them. Nice and responsive. As they're a twin get them as long as you can.
Never skied the Nordicas, lots of people on here have though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
The Karmas, for sure.
They are quite different animals, the Nitrous has really really good torsinal stiffness, and will let you hold an edge on the most unfriendly hardpack, whilst angulating like the Maier. But it's soft enough longitudinally to enjoy in the trees and powder too. So it's a piste animal that can cope with the thick stuff.
The Karmas on the other hand, are more at home in the ungroomed stuff, but also on all but the nastiest hardpack days will still hold some edge, but clearly not as well as the Nitrous. This animal is better suited to off ungroomed stuff, but won't complain for runs on the groomed stuff to get to your next tree and powder stash.
They (the Karmas) would make a good quiver alongside your G31's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I have the Nitrous but have never skied teh Karmas. From what I've read, they both sound like they'd be good for you.
I can say that the Nitrous sounds perfect for what you want it for. I've skied it in Winter Park and the Alps and find it great fun in everything I've tried. It excels in boot deep powder and crud and is great on the hardpack. Also used it in tightish trees and moguls and seems good there too (though I'm not so good there). Not sure how well it would perform if it got really deep as I've never tried it. It is definitely a ski that likes to go fast and one I really find difficult to have a gentle cruise on, which suits me fine. Love it.
You say you're an 'old school' skier. Not sure what you mean by that. I would say that the Nitrous suits a modern carving style, but due to the 'x-balance' binding system can be more forgiving of stance that others perhaps.
I would say that the Nitrous is a steal at 372 euros and if I was torn between the two then that would make my mind up for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
KARMA's without a doubt
A
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Is the new Karma any good..?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The new Karma is the same as last seasons, except for graphics. There isn't any metal, but as you probably know it's a solid ski without it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Snowbot wrote: |
| The new Karma is the same as last seasons, except for graphics. There isn't any metal, but as you probably know it's a solid ski without it. |
I thought I'd read somewhere that the titanial topsheet had been removed (shortened?) giving the ski a slightly softer flex in the present incarnation?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
adam_button,
With all due respect why?
Why should I choose the Karma without a doubt at a price that is almost 200 EURO more expencive?
Im looking for advaice that somehow helps me motivate my decission. Inorder to get that I need more then a YES or NO.
Have you skiied both? If not which have you skied and in what conditions? What type of skier are you? Ect ect...
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
At 230lbs perhaps you'd be better with something a bit fatter than the karma. Would a mantra not fit the bill or a 189 k2 seth. Of course I suppose the seth may be more work than you'd want on the piste. I hear the Mantra totally rips everywhere though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Mantra would be ultimate but then we are talkin price range of 800+ EURO as Ive been unable to find any on sale from last year in 185cm.
That unfortunatly disqualifies the Mantra.
The Nitrous are 123/78/108 and the Karmas are 119/87/111
So they are quite different in shape.
When skiing offpist/trees with powder or "broken" powder what is more important the tip width or the under foot width?
Am I correct when I assume that the wider tip will help prevent diving characteristics while the wide under foot gives overall better float (due to entire ski volume beeing higher).
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Sport-conrad.com have the mantra for 450. In my opinion its best to go for what you really want, not just the cheapest. I see they also have the Scratch BC for very reasonable money. Telemark-pyrenees have the Elan 777 for 300 euros. Which would surely be a better alternative to the nordica. Ski-bilek have the head mojo 90 for 499 inc bindings (go for the 193cm  ) and I hear they are pretty stiff, so may be worth a look. They even have the k2 pontoon for 449. If I were you I'd get the seth as it would be good for lift served powder, which I take it is you're main reason for wanting groomer performance. Keep an eye on ski-bilek as they have some mantras up from time to time, its a pity the package ones they have up at the minute are only 177. Or why not just get the skis in Fernie, say you lugging an extra pair round the airport, plus you'll be able to demo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Edmundh009,
You have just made my GF love you.
Simultaniously as Ive been looking for skis for my self Ive been looking for a pair of skis for her.
She wants a pair of K2 True Luv´s from last year... Ive had one hell of a time finding them... but sports-conrad.com had them in the right lenght of the bargin price of 250 including bindings!!!
Thanks so much
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
250 inc bindings is a great price. It is difficult to suggest a ski for you given your size. I think you should have a look at sport-conrad again and create a short list again to get some more opinions. I wouldnt really bother with the karmas, go fatter. The scratch seems to be the best for the money with more of an off-piste bias, or the head mojo 90 with more of an all-mountain bias.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
When I talked to the local dealer here about going Karma or BC he said "If I was you I wouldnt buy em".
He is a smaller guy then me but uses the Völkl AC4 as his main ride he the BCs where way too soft for him even in offpist. Sure he is a better skier then me having grown up in northen sweden with tons of ski days every year but still I do really not wana go too soft.
I could get a pair of used BCs in Fernie for sub 300 Euros. Still dont feel I wana go down that route without havnig demoed them.
Yeah Im makin a shortlist for my self.
Also for a guy at about 105-108 kg´s do you think a pair of 12 DIN bindings are enough?
Regarding the skis for my GF. Basicly we have been lookin for the True Luv´s for here but an alternative is B2s. She is a intermediate skiier who wants to have a ski to evolve on both on and off the pist (she will be sking offpist with me in fernie). She doesnt want a ski she will grow out of so to speak. Inorder to evolve as a skier in the groomed she needs a ski that is stable as she needs to let the skis run but inorder to do that she needs to trust the ski. Yet the ski shouldnt be too much work for her in the offpist.
Her size is 164cm and about 63kgs.
Im a bit worried that the B2s can be a bit too hard work in the offpist.
Yet I would say the B2s are more allround then the True Luv´s. From what I understand the True Luv is a all mountain ski but more of a groomer.
Whats your take B2 or True?
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I know very little about womens specific skis. If you search back a couple of pages there may be a few threads which are of interest to you most notably posted by Easiski who is herself an instructor. If you want something stiff for all mountain I suppose its the mojo or karma but I really think you'll be compromising slightly on performance in the deep stuff. Have you thought about a Gotama.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
IF it really dumps we will just rent super fat powder skiis.
Especially my GF needs a pair of allround skis as it will be her only pair that should be able to handle anything from icey groomed to trees and light powder. Rentals will cover the deeeeep powder days.
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
TexMurphy, I still think out of the two you mention, the Nitrous wins it on value for money alone. However, you say you want 60% off piste 40% on piste. The Nitrous probably has it the other way round. It'll see you okay over all but the biggest powder days though, on which you could just hire.
As always, demo is probably the best option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
conor, that was my thinkin as well. I had decided to go with the Nitrous just due to the "bang per buck". This was until Edmundh showed me the sports-conrad.com link.
What Ive got now is a pair of Karmas 06/07 with same binding (but this years model) as the Nitrous for 419 EURO. At a 47 Euro difference I would say that the value for money has swung over to the Karmas.
So unless something drastical happens within the next day or two Im gonna go for the Karmas.
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Plenty of people in Fernie ski Seths or Gotamas, 8800s/Legend Pros as their only ski so out of the 2 I'd go Karma unless you really expect/want to be skiing hardpack post your Canadian trip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fatbob, For the hard packed after the Canada trip I will be using my Völkl G31s. So yeah you guys got me convinced Im going for the Karmas.
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
TeMurphy
Apologies for my lack of write up.
Tested both at Castleford and IMHO the following came out of it:
Nitrous - value for money, decent flex (not stiff enough for me) decent costruction and good for all mountain, a little twitchy on slow runs in, not as heavy or responsive as my Dynies or Volkl's.
Karma - constructed to almost bullet proof ness - had Dogens for years, side cut better for off piste being 87's rather than I think its 79's for the Nordica's? construction better, solid good ski with no looseness to it on run ins and piste.
I ski on - Dynastar Trouble Makers with Look P12 Jib binding - mostly park and piste, K2 Public Enemy with Rossi Axial 1 120 bindings (same as look p12) - park and back country and Volkl Dogens with Marker 12 Free bindings - trashed on ramps at dry slopes and in LaTania!!!
I use my volkls every week at Gloucester and they are now loking a real state, however, the side walls have not de-laminated in any way, edge is perfect and they are great for not only park and pipe, but all mountain.
I said Karma because it is a little stiffer than the Dogen and with a slightly bigger sidecut it should do you well in the back country. Worth spending the extra bit IMHO go well with marker bindings or if you can get them try the Rossi Axial 1 120's, perfect jib binding!!!! 
Finally - Lets face it, nordica are new to the whole twin tips thing, so would you trust them???? stick with a manufacturer that's tried and tested!!! 
Am going to try the new Amplid's this year - love the Royal teddy - want want want want
A
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Plus the Nordica Hot rod is not a twin Tip as far as I'm aware. At 200lbs plus I think you'll need a ski with 90mm+ in the waist for decent float. I'm suprised none of the Freeriders have jumped all over this thread with recommendations. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
doesn't matter now as he's bought the Karma's - anyway - was taling about construction, not design lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
adam_button, So was I! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
adam_button, Finally - Lets face it, nordica are new to the whole twin tips thing, so would you trust them???? stick with a manufacturer that's tried and tested!!! Quote! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
lol, and your point is? lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
adam_button, Elephant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
SMALLZOOKEEPER, any idea what happened with Nordica's freeride bit. They seemed to enter the market with the 9.1 (think that's the name) which seems to get talked bout in hushed tones as one of the great skis. Then they kind of went out with a wimper with the Beast line.
Got to say that the new Supercharger line looks very tasty - do you think they're in it for keeps this time?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Arno, 100% in it for keeps, the Supercharger range rock! Think K2 vs Volkl. Graphics need some work, but thats been addressed for 2007/8. We made the SCOTT PURE our ski of the year, however the ENFORCER came a close second. Should/could be the ski to displace the SETH! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Adam
Thanks for the write up. Ive actually not bought the Karmas yet... Ive decided to 99% but still can always change my mind..
Speakin about bindings... Im not a jibber so I dont really need a jib binding..
Which would you recommend.
Karma + Rossignol Axial 2 120 Pro = 409 Euro
Karma + Rossignol Axial 2 140 Ti Pro wide brake = 469 Euro
Karma + Rossignol Scratch Ti 140 = 469 Euro
Karma + Marker M 12.0 Free = 419 Euro
Karma + Marker M 14.0 Free = 449 Euro
Karma + Atomic FFG12 = 399 Euro
Karma + Look PX 12 Ti Jib Wide = 449Euro
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
FFG 12, no doubt!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
SMALLZOOKEEPER, Think a 12 DIN binding is enough?
Tex
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TexMurphy, Sorry, just checked your stats, er no, FFG 14 or higher! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TexMurphy, the Axial 2 140 Ti Pro and Scratch Ti 140 are the same binding - different graphics. The Look PX12 Ti is the titanium version of the Axial 2 120 Pro.
I'd go for the Look - it has the wide brake (which I think you'll need for the Karma), and is lighter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Arno, 100% in it for keeps, the Supercharger range rock! Think K2 vs Volkl. Graphics need some work, but thats been addressed for 2007/8. We made the SCOTT PURE our ski of the year, however the ENFORCER came a close second. Should/could be the ski to displace the SETH! |
the graphics on this year's supercharger blower rock if you ask me
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm with WTFH - go with the Look PX12 ti nice strong binding, mate has them on his PE's and loves them
A
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
