Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

The Vallee Blanche is not a ski piste

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Excellent article on PisteHors.com.

Well worth the read.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Interesting tip re clipping a sling attached to your harness high on your body.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
PhillipStanton, good article, I read it the other day while browsing PisteHors, something I don't do often enough, I'm amazed but not completely surprised that people head up there by themselves Shocked rolling eyes I think ski resorts sanitise the high mountain package so much at times that many people don't have the necessary respect for the environment.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Swirly,
I think the guides make pretty vocal points to skiers they see struggling down the arette with little or no kit... Seen it a few times, but I think it would do the resort more credit if the didn't sell tickets to people so casually....
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
JT, I've not been up there but I agree with your point. To be completely honest I didn't think much about where I was when in the Alps until I took up climbing, when I got back into boarding afterwards I was pretty shocked at what I saw but given the lack of education about what can happen at 3000m up a mountain you're always going to get people thinking of it like it's a trip to the shops, especially when combined with a holiday atmosphere.

To clarify my above post I have no issue with people doing it unguided (I may start a debate on this in the summer when everyone's a bit tetchy Twisted Evil ) but to go there completely solo is, for the majority, practically suicide. There are few glaciers I would walk on unroped in summer when crevasses are exposed, o.k. on skis/board you'll probably be safe in winter without the rope if you keep moving and pick the right line but as noted on PisteHors taking this kit off then moving about with no backup is very dangerous and if alone this is what you're doing.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
JT, when you say "but I think it would do the resort more credit if the didn't sell tickets to people so casually.... " what exactly do you mean, my friend has been suggesting a trip to Chamonix specifically to do the VB, with a guide of course, do need to purchase a ticket to ski it?
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
northantsred, you need a ticket for the cable car.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
PhillipStanton, yup. Well worth reading - thanks for the link.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
From the article: "Being on a glacier implies that you have a minimum of gear. Screw gate karibiners, prussik loops, pulleys, ascender and the knowledge of how to use them. Yes, all the gear but no idea? You need to know how to rig a hoist. A number of books and courses can teach you the basics. Inform yourself. Take at least an ice screw and wear a climbing harness"....

I really should learn about that sort of thing.... I just put on a harness when the guide lends me one, and learn nothing.
Any suggestions for courses? Trouble is, I don't want to learn mountaineering and I don't want to take up lots of a ski holiday to do it.

Or even a good book to start off.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
One thing intrigued me:

Quote:
Your harness should have a length of cord, around 60cm free, attached with a screw gate karabiner on the other end. The karabiner should be clipped somewhere high on your person, the collar of your jacket for example. Like that we can easily pull you out in case of external rescue.


Both when high-grade scrambling and when skiing on glaciers, I have worn a harness and a screw-gate carabiner - always directly clipped into the harness. It seemed to make sense - less clutter and bulk. When skiing, I also think it more likely to be accessible, because of being roughly central for feet-first or head-first falls. The article implies that feet-first falls in crevasses are more likely. Does anybody know if that is so?
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
How much would a guide and equipment hire be for a single descent of the Vallee Blanche?
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Christopher,
The guides lend you the equipment as part of the cost. The cost of the guide will depend on the size of the group. I seem to remember about £40-50 per head for four of us but might be wildly out.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
snowball, I learned all this stuff in our first few trips out with guides. Took an hour or two out on a hot afternoon when the snow was a bit poo-poo and learned about ski and ice belays, rigging pulley systems, and practiced pulling each other out of crevasses/windholes. Good fun. Did that a couple of times, and the guides actually seemed more interested in teaching that than actually skiing (but to be fair we were pretty basic at the time). Since then I've always travelled with the gear, as the guy says - enough to secure myself or assist a friend but in no way would I call myself a mountaineer. Couple of screwgates, couple of clipgates, one icescrew (two if you want to get yourself out of a crevasse unaided), a couple of slings and a couple of prussics and you're set (oh, and a rope may be useful as well).

jbob, achilles, yes I've always worn a screwgate that way since being told to by my first VB guide/instructor - one in the belay loop and then a sling or bit of rope up to the collar with the second screwgate. Once you get down out of the glacier region though, and certainly if you get into trees, it's sensible to unhook it (I unhook the lower screwgate) and put it down inside your jacket to avoid getting strung up. This year one of our guides also suggested running it under my jacket to avoid that external loop.

Christopher, about €60-70 to join a group down one of the basic routes from one of the guides' offices. If you want to do one of the more interesting routes you need to get your own group together and a guide is about €300/day. They provide harnesses and beeps as part of the deal.

The other really important point mentioned in the article is to not take your skis off if at all possible while on the glacier - NEVER take both off, and only take one off if you really have to. Even though we were in a pretty safe place, one guide this year (snowball it was Philippe) was pretty nervous after one came off in a small tumble until I was 'properly shod'.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
GrahamN, That way of doing things makes sense to me - thanks.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
If you go with a guide on the standard, easy route, do they lend you all the gear for that too? (I've never done the Vallee Blanche, on account of being scared of the walk from the lift to the start of the run. Embarassed )
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Well considering the amount of people who have died without a guide and as a consequence, I think it is definatly an investment if your going to do the Vallee Blanche. Compared to the price of a weeks ski school for 4 people. It is hardly a rip off.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hurtle wrote:
If you go with a guide on the standard, easy route, do they lend you all the gear for that too? (I've never done the Vallee Blanche, on account of being scared of the walk from the lift to the start of the run. Embarassed )


Yes it is stll crevassed off piste terrain. There is no need to be scared of the walk in. I am the worlds original wimp at heights/steeps, in high season when I went there is a rope to hold onto and a queue to get down. Probably less frightening than waiting for the Harrods sales.
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
T Bar wrote:
Probably less frightening than waiting for the Harrods sales.

Wow, I have never been to the Harrods sale - I had no idea it was that scary!
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
snowball, it isn't really, nor does Knightsbridge have a several hundred foot drop on each side.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
northantsred,

Yes, it is a huge lift and have great sightsee-ing possibilities so you will share the car with foot passengers. But as you carry skis, you are obviuosly going to look to ski down. My point is that it is high mounatin terrain and a very long way to travel with a mishap. The walk out..if you could do such a thing safely, might take 3-4 hours from somewhere near the top.

The lift company will sell tickets on cars if they have space... they don't vet anyone..and you could argue, why should they..? but then at the top, you have might have a guide beratting nervous skiers on the ridge because they have just rocked up, bought a ticket on a blue-bird looking day and hope to ski the thing...by following tracks mostly, because they wouldn't have a clue where they were headed otherwise....

I am just saying that if the guides think it a bad idea for all and sundry to be up there, why don't they liase with the CC company and stop people at the bottom

On a smaller scale, they do so at the 3rd stage Valluga CC.

If you have booked a guide, then you'll have to pay a guide fee and the lift ticket. It isn't on the Chamonix lift pass. After that, just take some food and drink and enjoy a spectacular day out..hopefully.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
JT, just a tiny point of order, it's on the Mont Blanc Unlimited lift pass (as is the top Grands Montets lift, Les Houches and Courmayeur).
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Murdoch,

oh... they have changed it again... I can't keep up with who and what constitues the area pass anymore...Laughing
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
snowball, I am hoping to organise a specific ropework & techniques etc course later this year, probably at Plas y Brenin Wales, or La Grave - purely for the skier ... ! I will start a Thread when I have got a little more information. I tried to arrange one for Autumn last year here in Ireland, but was let down by the climbing school.

.... to improve rope and safety work, to get further on the mountain. It's a lot less tiring and draining with good technique rather than pure brawn .... and just think of all that lovely untracked powder beyond that normally impassable cliff or ridge .... Laughing

.... and not to be a mountaineer ! Toofy Grin ... but I will do up to four hours on skins, snowshoes, rope or hiking, but it's got to have a skiing reward at the end ... unlike "The Day that Never Was" .. AKA .. "The Day of The Romanian" Laughing


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Sun 4-05-08 13:37; edited 2 times in total
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
achilles wrote:
PhillipStanton, yup. Well worth reading - thanks for the link.

ditto
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
BernardC, Just remember... a snow bucket seat results in a very cold backside Laughing
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

I am just saying that if the guides think it a bad idea for all and sundry to be up there, why don't they liase with the CC company and stop people at the bottom

Why don't they? Who knows...

At Whistler a few years back, they had a policy if you want to bike the mountain, you have to buy a ticket that includes the fee for a guide for the first run! (I was told they were about to do away with that though). Tourist who want to just sight see can always get a DIFFERENT ticket to go up, they just can't take bikes with their tickets. The same can be done with skis...
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Interesting and for me, a topical thread, as I sit in my hotel room in Chamonix. Yesterday had some superb skiing with our guide off the back of the Grand Montets, and just returned from heliskiing, where we skiied the Aiguille des Glaciers and the Aigulle de Petit Mont Blanc. Had a very similar conversation with Franck, our guide over lunch who gave a couple of people a real b*llocking yesterday for being up on the glacier without transceivers, harnesses or any other kit. The point he made, with which it is hard to argue, is that he is legally bound to assist people who get themsleves into bother up there, and if he fails to do so would face prosecution. So he has to risk his life to rescue people who are too tight, or too stupid to spend 300 Euros on having a guide with them. I consider myself to be a reasonable skier, with a fair amount of off-piste experience but wouldn't dream of skiing on a glacier without a guide. Anyway, we are planning to ski the VB tomorrow so I'll visit the wrath of pistehors and snowheads on anyone I see without a guide!

By the way if anyone is looking for a guide in the Chamonix area I can heartily recommend Franck. His English is excellent, and is completely removed from the 'follow my fresh tracks' school of guiding that one sometimes comes across. He is also keen to pass on his knowledge and I've learnt a lot from him in the last couple of days. His website is http://web.mac.com/franck.chapon/Site/WELCOME.html - and he had us attach a screw gate karibiner on a length of rope high up on our jackets from our harnesses for the reasons quoted above
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
JT wrote:
I am just saying that if the guides think it a bad idea for all and sundry to be up there, why don't they liase with the CC company and stop people at the bottom

On a smaller scale, they do so at the 3rd stage Valluga CC.

I'm fairly sure they do this on the Arp cablecar in Courmayeur.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BGA, sounds like a fun trip. Take care. There was a brief item on the news today about a British woman 'skier' having been killed 'climbing' Mont Blanc. No further details released yet.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
JT wrote:
Swirly,
I think the guides make pretty vocal points to skiers they see struggling down the arette with little or no kit... Seen it a few times, but I think it would do the resort more credit if the didn't sell tickets to people so casually....


That's not totally fair, the Lithuanian guy for example was warned multiple times, buying his ticket, by the lift staff, by the security guys at the top etc. I'm not sure anyone would advocate giving the ticket office power to refuse to sell a ticket, it would be a minefield.
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

There was a brief item on the news today about a British woman 'skier' having been killed 'climbing' Mont Blanc. No further details released yet.
Also reported here.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rjs, No longer - it used to be the case that only groups with a guide could take the Arp, but it's now open to all and sundry.

speaking of open to all and sundry, BernardC, keep us posted, sounds interesting Smile
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snowball, Hurtle,
Harrods sale looks scary to me only seen it on tele. Shocked

I don't mean that there is no danger on the arrette but in the circumstances of being roped up and having a rail on one side it is not really a frightening experience. I am someone who is not good at heights.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
BGA wrote:
The point he made, with which it is hard to argue, is that he is legally bound to assist people who get themsleves into bother up there, and if he fails to do so would face prosecution.


Same law applies to you BGA, if you see someone in difficulty you are legally obliged to stop and help in France. Of course you may not be able to offer much help depending on your abilities.

Climbed to the Breche de Puiseux today, 95% of people on the VB that I saw were reasonbly equipped I would say. Not sure about taking under 12s on the route though. There did seem to be some kind of incident with the rescue helicopter buzzing around.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rjs,

Last time I went up the Apr they had attendants and the people who went up with skis..came down via that lift fairly quickly. I don't know what good sense turned them back tho'. I haven't been back there for 4 years or so...
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
The guide a group of us hired a few years ago told us lurid stories all the way up the lift; I guess to deter anyone who may not have been up to it.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
There are 3 obvious directions off the Arp....and with all you need to know where you are headed. A map etc would be a very good idea for at least two of the routes. The bootpack over the ridge to bring you back into the Courmayuer system is the easiest and shortest route.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Just got back from skiing VB. In the light of this thread found it quite interesting that our guide equipped us with ice screws and gave us a quick tutorial in their use prior to getting on the cable car. Very few people around today and most seemed to have all the relevant kit. Ridge walk was fine, unlike last time I took my crampons today which made it 200% easier. Would suggest to anyone who is unsure about walking the arret that crampons are the way forward. Took the Grand Envers route down, which was good, although it was so hot that we hit slush quite high up. Unfortunately our man who was i/c photography dropped his camera on the traverse out so we don't have many photos, but I did take a few which I'll try and post when I get back to the UK.
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
snowball wrote:
From the article: "Being on a glacier implies that you have a minimum of gear. Screw gate karibiners, prussik loops, pulleys, ascender and the knowledge of how to use them. Yes, all the gear but no idea? You need to know how to rig a hoist. A number of books and courses can teach you the basics. Inform yourself. Take at least an ice screw and wear a climbing harness"....

I really should learn about that sort of thing.... I just put on a harness when the guide lends me one, and learn nothing.
Any suggestions for courses? Trouble is, I don't want to learn mountaineering and I don't want to take up lots of a ski holiday to do it.

Or even a good book to start off.


you could practice rope work/prussiks etc at a climbing wall
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I have no qualifications in ropework etc. but I do sessions where I show members of our uni climbing club "what I would do" in various situations e.g. rescuing an unconcious climber etc. I'm not too hot on crevasse rescue atm but am going to put in some hours practice pretty soon as I'm off to Chamonix this summer. If anyone round the Liverpool area is interested (and providing I can book the uni wall) I could probably do a session over the summer.

BGA, I don't see a problem with being off piste on a glacier without a guide, the issue is being there without the kit/knowledge.

Arno, unless they're running a specific course, which I've never seen at our local proper wall, climbing walls tend not to like people prussiking up stuff.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy