 Poster: A snowHead
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So, having sussed out that we can go skiing without flying, suddenly realised that husband (keen rockclimber but doesn't do heights that involve leaving the ground) may only be prepared to take draglifts. He will be at beginner plus stage (few lessons on dry slope and at Tamworth). Have to go around 17th Dec so limited choice of resorts. Val Thorens looks a good candidate (2 teenage boys will be looking for more blue/poss red than green, me green/blue I think with lessons for all) - but cannot find a decent map that shows clearly enough which lift is what. Am certain that someone out there will know how much we can do without going near a gondola/cable car; low level chairlifts may be possible once he sees what it's like.
Many thanks for your help
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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some of the big funitel lifts are better then the chair lifts as long as you dont look out the window. just stay away from cime caron.... scary up there
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Late starter,
For a beginner then maybe he could get around the resort ok on a few lifts..... but if he can rock climb then the chairs shouldn't be such a problem but only he can answer that. Hopefully someone who knews the resort better will be able to help with specific lifts. I don't take too much notice of them myself...
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From (old) memory. Using this map as a basis:
http://www.ski-europe.com/images/trailmaps/valthore.jpg
There is a dual drag actually in town serving a couple of very short nursery type slopes, and also one to the 'right' (uphill in reality) serving the (black on this map) slalom run. Looks from the map like that might be a chair now though...
The chair toward lac de lou isn't too bad and the next one 'up' (to the blue) is covered i think so might be less scary? The final one of those three (icons close to each other on the map) is also ok (and leads to the green) but to get any further up I'm a bit stuck as to how you might do it - val thorens has a very modern lift system, almost all fast chairs andd gondola and even the ones I've mentioned aren't THAT close to the ground.
Serre Chevalier has a lot of drags - so do some of the swiss resorts I believe? For avoiding gondolas etc I can recommend les arcs, but it is mostly chairs? Not memorably high but I'm not afraid of heights so no guarantee I'd notice!
That said if your husband is in lessons then he will probably only use the 'blue' and 'green' chairs I mention so might be ok - they are core beginner/learner teritory. Make sure he has private lessons though, esf will probably not take kindly to someone who doesn't like chairs in a group!
Hope someone more up to date passes through soon - I went about 4/5 years ago and loads of folks went last season!
aj xx
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brian
brian
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Late starter, Val T is not blessed with an abundance of drags from what I remember.
If he's a confident beginner+ you could take him to Val d'Isere and ski off the Funival (underground train). There certainly used to be a couple of high level pomas serving greens and blues at the top of that lift and a long (but not especially easy) blue back to the village at La Daille. Theoretically there's a green run as well, but in reality it's at least blue as well.
Across the alps, tows are turning to chairs at an alarming rate, you'll have to bring him up to Scotland, no shortage of tows here ! 
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Thanks for the info: the bit with climbing is that he's in contact with the 'ground' whereas on a chair lift he isn't - and he has no idea how he will react to chair lifts in reality - did get him up the one on the Isle of Wight (he walked down so as not to have to go down on it!) - but he didn't look too happy!
Thanks for the tip on private lessons - was beginning to think that would have to be the case.
We will probably only manage 4 days skiing due to his shifts, so it shouldn't break the bank!
Oh and good to know about Scotland - have a Scottish colleague who said best not to spend the money going to Scotland - but being as how you can get there by train am thinking maybe it is an option to consider.....
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Late starter, most of the lifts that a near begiiner would be on in Serre Chevalier would be grag lifts BUT he will have to get up the mountain from the village using either a chairlift , gondola or cable car. If he's OK with chairlifts the best village to start from may be Monetier-les-Bains, as it's all chairs or drag lifts there. As he is a near beginner-he is unlikely to need to go into the main area. I would go with the private lesson suggestion too. Try Eurekaski.com for private tuition.
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Late starter, there is a chair lift at Bracknell dry slope - just down the road from you, he could see how that feels. It only runs when the demand is sufficient, so you'd best check with them when that may be.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ski-ing without flying or chairlifts???
At least he's prepared to consider a mountain.
How about water ski-ing?
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Water isn't solid....so he doesn't do that either!
I've never managed to get on the chair lift at Bracknell and been going since March - instructor tried to get it turned on for a lesson but still no joy - not sure whether it's sick or not.
Mountains are great - he may decide cross- country is his thing but without going somewhere we'll never know
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Late starter, The older, lesser know swiss and austrian resorts would be the place to go for lots of drag lifts. Not big, and they won't be in any of the TO brochures. AS already mentioned most bigger resorts are moving to chairlifts as that's apparently what people want - to sit and not take off their skis!
The truth of the matter, though, is that he will have to learn to at least be OK on chairlifts if he wants to ski. Does he get vertigo (real vertigo)? Is he just a control freak? If you PM me we can have a detailed discussion, as I suffer from vertigo myself and have (largely) overcome it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Late starter, Have a think about Livigno. All the nursery slopes are on the western side of the Valley, get the morning sun and there are about 10 drags on them from 200m long to near 400m. Lots of variety in the terrain for learning on and literally on the doorstep of lots of cafes etc. when you want to take a break. nearly all the chairs that are there are on low pylons and don't go over deep gullies or cliffs.
Duty Free as well
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You know it makes sense.
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bladeskier, Yes - isn't it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Late starter, I'd agree with those who recommend lesser known resorts, as they are small they may not have had the financial input to allow for the wide-spread replacement of drag lifts with chairs. Try this resort in Krighizstan, where every lift is a surface lift...
My gut feeling though is that he should be able to deal with the chairlifts - he'll be able to put his feet onto the rest which may make him feel a bit more secure, and when the bar is brought down it'll be a bit more reassuring. I'm not a fan of heights, but that's only if I have a harness on and ropes attached to me (makes my brain think "Safety devices, there must be some danger...") whereas a chairlift I can go up without the bar... I appear to be the exact opposite of your husband in this respect.
It would be best for you to find a small resort with a fair number of drag-lifts so that whatever happens he gets a good amount of skiing in and enjoys his holiday - but definitely get him on a chairlift (in resort if possible - the snow below could be a mental pillow?) and hope that he can cope with them, otherwise it will limit your options each year - it'll also lead to expensive learning as ajhainey makes the point that most group lessons will be using chairs at some point.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Late starter, Just had a thought. Tignes, Val Claret has a short very low and big chair feeding the learning area that finishes by the funicular and it's free for a 500m run. Plus the railway goes up to the glacier and the main lift there is a drag. It might be a way of getting him onto a chair and also up into the higher resort . . . just tossing ideas around
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You don't pay 3 Vallees prices to use uncomfortabe lifts
As has been mentioned, you may find resorts in Switzerland which still have a few t-bars. The problem is that the villages are often low and rely on a cable gar or gondola to get people up to the ski area. Maybe consider resorts with funiculars/trains like Davos.
How about glacier ski areas in Austria where you can either drive to the base or get a train up e.g. Kaunertal.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Late starter, if he can do Alum Bay chairlift, he can do anything. Should've been condemned years ago 
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Late starter, Val Thorens will be a poor choice if drag lifs are essential - the only ones accessible from the centre of the resort without getting on chairs or gondolas are the Retour (a pair of drags running up the middle of the village) and the Roc (which runs up the side of a green). Many chairlifts don't go very high above ground - Cascades, Deux Lacs and Moutiere come to mind and each of these has easy skiing at the top. As has been said, if you get a seat on the Peclet Funitel (keep on the left hand side of the queue and you should get a seat) you won't see down too much - but you are pretty high.
Whatever you do, don't let him get on the 3 Valleys 1 chairlift - it goes very high over the centre of the resort and I'm sure I'm not the only person who doesn't like it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Late starter,
Scotland is definaltly worth a look if you can "get there by train" but don't book in advance it's best to see how the conditions are and then choose which centre to go to.
Most lifts are drag but Nevis and Glencoe would be non starters as they have access Gondolar/chair. Cairngorm has no chairs that they curently use, Lecht is great for beginers and only one chair, Glenshee is the largest area and it is possible to ski all the runs without useing a chair.
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Late starter, have a look at La Rosiere, we still have a good selection of drag lifts plus the two beginners lifts in the village are drags and completely free. The resort opens on the 10th Dec so the 17th is very probable, La rosiere has a very good snow record. We have availability early season, have alook at our ad in snowShops or go to website www.tracksvacations.com for full details.
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I start shaking when I get 10ft up a ladder but have no probs in ski resorts...honestly, if the only one he's been on is on the IOW...re my previous comment!
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Am very grateful for all the suggestions: being as how we will be going by train think La Rosiere might be a bit easier than Russia - but if we ever had a longer time frame it would be fascinating I think. Have looked at La Rosiere and wondered hard - am planning to book Eurostar to Paris shortly then the final destination once french train tickets avail ? Oct I think
Husband says IOW lift was really unpleasant for him - did it for our two boys I think.
Did wonder whether he would find Les Menuires a better option - I've seen good and bad reports but suspect it may be better on the ground level lifts.
Easiski thanks for the offer - am out most of tomorrow but will PM asap - I saw from previous posts that you are a bit of an expert on this one.
Has anyone any pics of the three lifts in VT mentioned above ( Cascades, Deux Lacs and Moutiers) - have done a websearch but no joy as yet.
Austria & Switzerland sound better but the journey becomes long by train - and we really don't want to drive - he will just have come off a night shift so it would just be me driving and navigating with 2 teenagers one who gets car sick - lets not even go there eh!
The boys are really keen for him to join us - we had a day in Spanish Sierra Nevada and loved it but he wasn't on the trip (we were visiting my mum in Spain!) - so it's trying to give him a chance of seeing if this is a family holiday for the future.
Had concluded it was Lecht or Glenshee from a quick look at the maps as no initial 'sky-lift' to the runs - and yes would go for a late booking if we try and go up there at any point as I thought snow was a bit more variable.
It's a slow process sussing this all out but really want to try and suit everyone as much as poss!
Thanks 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Late starter, A resort that would be good for you all is Villars(-Gryon). I have the piste map from 2004/2005 in front of me (trust that it hasn't changed) and there is a train from the village to the main start point (Bretaye) and then there are lots of draglifts to and from there, giving you access to a number of blues and reds (there are no greens in Switzerland). There are lots of other options too.
Villars is probably one of the closer resorts to the UK I would think, being just over the border from France.
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Late starter, you can see pictures of the VT lifts here - but I don't think that'll really help as you really need to see the whole length of the lift. BTW, second thoughts about Moutiere - it does go quite high when it passes over the top of a gondola, which he might not like.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Late starter, Les Menuires used to have a fair few drag lifts bu the lift system is very up to date now. We went with a friend who would onlydo drag lifts or gondolas. We eventually talked her onto a covered chair, and eventually onto a 6 man detachable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Late starter, La Rosiere has plenty of drags but unless they've been comprehensively serviced recently they are very harsh on take-up and not very beginner friendly. Anecdotal and personal experience tells me that the Italians prefer their drags to not knock them about too much and they keep the shock absorbers in the poles and reels better serviced. I've only experienced Schladming in Austria and again the take-up on the T-bars was well damped and progressive, tales here echo that for other Austrian resorts. I'm a boarder so drag lift comfort is high in my list of desires too.
Out of curiosity does anyone have any thoughts on the French Pyrenees resorts, I've never been but there are good train links from Paris.
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Masque, I was thinking to myself that there are only 3 drags on the La Rosiere side and what use would they be. When I look at the piste map, I can see that a huge portion of the resort could be skied using only those 3 drags. You can get to the top of Roc Noir using Clarines2, Sevoliere, Plan do Repos and finally Roc Noir. This gives you linked access to all but 8 of the runs. Sevoliere is a beast of a drag though and we lost 4/9 kids on the sharp bend half way up.
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You know it makes sense.
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Late starter, given the time of year you're looking at, I understand why you're attracted to VT but I think Tignes Val Claret would suit you better.
It's only an hr further down the same train track and there are a number of drags accessable from base level providing access to green and blue pistes. Also, the Funiculaire railway provides you with 1000m of altitude whilst never leaving the ground. The runs down from it are red and blue.
Masque, I think the drag at the top of the Funiculaire is only open off season. The Cable Car up there is definitely not for the Aerially challenged
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frosty the Snowman, I'm not sure that finding a resort with lots of drags is the best solution for Late Starter's SO, it's finding one that can introduce him to chairs without scaring the poop out of him. I actually think that La Ros might be a candidate for that since its two new chairs are not on high pylons, don't fly over big drops and are well inboard of the piste edges. It'd be good to know that they've serviced some of those pomas ... my hip is still sore from some of those launches, I don't appreciate being lifted two feet into the air.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Oh, also, as Masque mentioned above, there's a beginners' chair which is free to access, short and really doesn't go far off the ground - a really good inintiation into the whole chairlift scenario.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Late starter, if the idea of a smaller Swiss station appeals, have a look at St Luc/Chandolin. Chandolin is at 2000m, St Luc at 1650m. There is a funicular up from St Luc, 1 chairlift and (I think) 12 drags.
http://www.funiluc.ch/e/default.asp
(The website mentions 14 chairlifts but they've just mistranslated ski lift)
There's a TGV service from Paris to Brig (google on tgv lyria), get off at Sierre and you can connect by bus from there.
http://sbb.ch/en/index.htm will give you an idea of the timings, but I don't think it goes as far as mid-December yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks everyone, this is all brilliantly helpful. Am busy looking at the links you have suggested. had thought Switzerland too far but St Luc & Villars don't look too bad - will be a long day either way - leave home around 7.30am get there late/very late evening. Think breakfast will be fun - take food instead of clothes...?! Just to make my life more fun we have 2 who eat almost anything and 2 who are less flexible - but with different tastes! Figured self-catering best but am sure there is plenty good advice elsewhere in the forum - first lets work out where we can go, the worry about where to stay!
Will also need to get fitter if I'm going on all those drag lifts... 
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I was going to suggest St.Luc/Chandolin, but I see brian has beaten me to it. The day we had over there I think we managed to hit the chairlift just once in the morning, heaving a huge sigh of relief as we really wanted the rest! We went one more extreme in the afternoon and then completely left the lift system!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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St Luc's a lovely spot. I think there are 2 chairs over in Chandolin which from memory are not very high off the ground. For skiing in December the other advantage is that it is quite a sunny area.
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Late starter, I know quite a few people who are scared of heights but have managed to overcome fear of chairlifts. If we can climb mountains then he should be able to do the chairlifts. may be a case of starting with the lower ones and working up (pardon the pun) mind over matter !
Hope he makes it. 
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Hmm am seriously looking at St Luc instead now - the bit about the sun cheered me up...have emailed swiss rail, and timetables for the last two weeks in Dec don't come out till Nov so once first bit planned will then have to sit tight for a while.
From experimenting looks like we won't get to Sierre till 9.30pm possibly at the earliest (2pm into Paris - hoping an hour to Gare de Lyon will do then off on the next stage - 4-5 hours plus to most places) so does anyone have any idea how much a taxi up to St Luc from Sierre might cost - 21km according to website - am used to taxis in Spain but not sure about Swiss prices!?
Thanks again - now look further at Tignes Val Claret, la Rosiere.....
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Late starter, a taxi from Bourg St Maurice to La Rosiere- 23kms so a roughly similar distance costs 40Euros plus a charge for baggage. I would expect a similar cost for a 21kms journey.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Late starter, St Luc looks good from the map - hope it works for you. It may be worth booking the accommodation and asking them about the transfer from Sierre, some places are only too willing to help out on the last bit.
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Late starter, the timetables won't change massively this year as they were totally redesigned last year. I'm afraid the taxi is likely to be rather more expensive than in France (although probably still cheaper than a hotel overnight) but if you can get to Gare de Lyon a bit earlier, you can get the bus up into St Luc, arriving about 7.30 in the eve (leave GdL 1304, change in Lausanne, bus from Sierre)
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