 Poster: A snowHead
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The 43-year-old was convicted of manslaughter of the 5-year-old in Flaine and given a 12-month suspended sentence.
The accident happened in the French resort in 2022 on a blue slope, the Serpentine.
The child, Ophélie, was part of a group lesson led by a ski instructor.
She was at the back of the group when an out-of-control skier hit her at speed – around 60km/h (37 mph).
The 43-year-old man was given a 12-month suspended sentence by the Bonneville judicial court in Haute-Savoie.
He was ordered to pay €165,000 in damages to the child’s family.
She had fallen slightly behind the other children and was at the back of the line preparing to turn when she was hit.
They travelled a ‘considerable’ distance down the slope after impact.
She received first aid at the scene and was taken to Sallanches hospital where she was pronounced dead.
In court, the defendant acknowledged that his speed may have been inappropriate for the conditions.
The man is a volunteer firefighter and administered first aid to the girl after the accident.
His lawyer described him as an experienced and generally cautious skier and said it was simply a tragic accident.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Awful for everyone involved. Can't imagine the pain of that family bringing their child on a skiing holiday and having to live with that loss.
Anyone familiar with that piste and why it might have been a problem?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Anyone familiar with that piste and why it might have been a problem?
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I've used it many times, often with my children when young.
It's a very wide and gentle blue piste, ideal for schooling etc and with no topological risk for that, in my view. Very clear sightlines, that would put the onus emphatically onto the approaching skier. Without knowing exactly where in location the incident is hard to definitively judge, but huge width in the order of 100mtrs predominant and typical of that piste for the most part. Gets busier in "junction" with restaurant and different routing of skiers about two thirds down, but still huge width and no pinch point.
Certainly tragic, and mystifying to me why anyone would need to be even close to a group like at while having such a speed difference.
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I suspect the problem is that people who are skiing too fast for their abilities don't really realise it until they need to call on skills which are lacking. Plus a bit that kids straggling in long ski school snakes are intrinsically vulnerable.
We can all say "hell no!" when we see backseat blue run heroes and stop to let them past. Letting traffic clear is one of the top skills in piste skiing imv.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ski3 wrote: |
| Without knowing exactly where in location the incident is hard to definitively judge. |
I asked chatgpt to find it, it came up with
| Quote: |
 Exact location on the piste
The accident happened on the Flaine ski resort blue run Serpentine, at:
Lower section of the piste (“en aval”)
Just below the restaurant “Le Blanchot”
At piste marker / sign no. 13 |
So a very wide bit - probably 40m or so - with the accident happening on the right-hand edge of the piste. Nothing there to reduce visibility or need avoiding action.
There's a good picture showing it on google maps, two piste markers are visible below the restaurant, so it would have been round about there
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EH3EEU8jgjXGxmmRA
@Dave of the Marmottes, Yes, there were a few such around in VT last week, and of course they always ski far too close. That's why I usually employ a tip I learned from Sally Chapman many years ago - if you're stopped at the edge of a piste, particularly if you have a group, hold or wave your poles horizontally-ish, pointing uphill at any oncoming skiers. It's amazing how much more room they leave if they see a sharp pointy thing in their path 
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The nursery area is served by a poma lift (Ballacha) and is pretty much seperate from the Serpentine run : When I visited, the top end was barriered off ; however, another piste crosses the area, allowing faster skier a traverse.
There are videos of the area on youtube - when you see who is using the piste, no one should be on it at speed
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@albob, This was still a long way up the hill from the top of the drag lift so nowhere near the nursery area.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| @albob, This was still a long way up the hill from the top of the drag lift so nowhere near the nursery area. |
AHH -- mis-read from me then...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Her name was Ophélie, which is not a common British name. He tried "in vain" to avoid her. So almost by definition out of control? Like a car driver who comes round a bend and hits a cow in the middle of the road was obviously going too fast! Poor little girl.
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The Serpentine piste, near Le Blanchot cafe, gets quite busy as that is the main blue run down to Flaine. Although very wide at that point, you have to take care and exercise caution (well, as anywhere) when busy, as there are typically a range of skier skill levels around you.
Tragic accident, awful for the family.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Her name was Ophélie, which is not a common British name. He tried "in vain" to avoid her. So almost by definition out of control? Like a car driver who comes round a bend and hits a cow in the middle of the road was obviously going too fast! Poor little girl. |
Agree, this is all about the poor little girl and her family, I have zero sympathy for for the defendant.
"She was at the back of the group when an out-of-control skier hit her at speed – around 60km/h (37 mph)."
You should not be skiing at that speed in the vicinity of ski school groups or areas with families skiing.
I don't want it to reach North American levels but Europe needs some sort of concept of ski patrol, now more than ever.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
"She was at the back of the group when an out-of-control skier hit her at speed – around 60km/h (37 mph)."
You should not be skiing at that speed in the vicinity of ski school groups or areas with families skiing.
I don't want it to reach North American levels but Europe needs some sort of concept of ski patrol, now more than ever. |
That's really not particularly fast, I imagine I'd often be doing that sort of speed in similar places. This idiot simply did it too close to other people, incorrectly assuming he'd be able to keep clear, most likely wrongly predicting the movements of the skiers below him.
It's difficult to see how Ski Patrol could have helped. Speed limits in specific nursery areas are one thing, but this is a big wide-open cruising slope, so the only way any restriction could work would be to have blanket speed limits on all pistes, so perhaps 40kph on a blue, 60 on a red and 80 on a black? Sure, we'd all want that, wouldn't we?
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
I don't want it to reach North American levels but Europe needs some sort of concept of ski patrol, now more than ever. |
Have you actually skied in the US? It's far from a paradise of speed cops and sensibly regulated skiing. I have a saying " The first rule of Heavenly is do not ski Heavenly on weekends and holidays" because it is meat missile alley a lot of places.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| .. It's difficult to see how Ski Patrol could have helped. Speed limits in specific nursery areas are one thing, but this is a big wide-open cruising slope, so the only way any restriction could work would be to have blanket speed limits on all pistes, so perhaps 40kph on a blue, 60 on a red and 80 on a black? Sure, we'd all want that, wouldn't we? |
In BC that's not how it's done.
Speed cops are a different bunch of people from ski patrol, and have yellow uniforms in WB. There's no "speed limit". Slow zones are teaching areas and other places which might get busy, and the rule is just that people should ride in a controlled manner there. The vast majority have no difficulty comprehending that. I think they wave politely at dicks, which mostly slows them down. They have radios and can call in support as needed.
I definitely approve of the slow zones, even though I'm generally riding with the fastest on the hill. Those aren't the places anyone competent would want to ride fast, at least when busy.
It's not really about speed though, it's about control. If you can demonstrate full control (which is going to requite some turns whilst the speed cop is looking at you), then they will move on as soon as they're happy with your combination of speed & control. It's not "a paradise", but "speed cops" make it quicker and safer for everyone through those sections.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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That makes sense - it's about control, not speed, isn't it? One of the scariest things I ever saw was a really big, elderly, beginner straightlining a green slope - he didn't mean to, but it was his first day on skis and, needless to say, he'd found the beginners' lesson in the morning "very boring Once he picked up speed he realised that any attempt to slow down was likely to end in tears. Fortunately the slope had a very long run out with a gentle up gradient at the end and there were very few people on it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="phil_w"]
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
I definitely approve of the slow zones, even though I'm generally riding with the fastest on the hill. Those aren't the places anyone competent would want to ride fast, at least when busy.
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Agree, i love carving at speed, I'll do it on a red or black when conditions are suitable.
I won't carve at speed down a blue or green when the slope is busy with inexperienced skiers or families.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| phil_w wrote: |
In BC that's not how it's done.
Speed cops are a different bunch of people from ski patrol, and have yellow uniforms in WB. There's no "speed limit". Slow zones are teaching areas and other places which might get busy, and the rule is just that people should ride in a controlled manner there. The vast majority have no difficulty comprehending that. I think they wave politely at dicks, which mostly slows them down. They have radios and can call in support as needed.
I definitely approve of the slow zones, even though I'm generally riding with the fastest on the hill. Those aren't the places anyone competent would want to ride fast, at least when busy.
It's not really about speed though, it's about control. If you can demonstrate full control (which is going to requite some turns whilst the speed cop is looking at you), then they will move on as soon as they're happy with your combination of speed & control. It's not "a paradise", but "speed cops" make it quicker and safer for everyone through those sections. |
This has been our experience and agree with this. Not only in BC but many if not all the places we've skied in the US too. Its totally about control rather than speed.
It would be rather difficult to enforce speed limits on slopes without anyone/ everyone having the ability to measure their own speed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Agree, and just to be clear I was suggesting European resorts adopt some sort of ski patrol to raise standards (PisteXCode style) rather than directly policing speed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I suspect the problem is that people who are skiing too fast for their abilities... |
Reportedly he is a very competent skier. Very often when dangerous situations arise, it's not so much about individual ability but about absolute speed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Reportedly he is a very competent skier.
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Who perhaps was simply not paying attention? Being technically competent - whether as a driver or a skier - is only part of the equation. I have no doubt that many 20 year old drivers are far more skilled than I am at controlling their cars but that doesn't make them good drivers. My younger son is a very skilled skier who has a fair few more crashes than I do! Though he only ever hurts himself.
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Me and the boys ripped past a slow sign on a groomer at Snowbird. Not a beginner area, more of an intersection. No one else was there so it was safe, but still, we disobeyed the sign. We stopped about 20 seconds later and a ski patroller skied up to us and said "please obey the slow signs; the best line from here is left of the knob, have a nice day" and skied away. He saw we were capable but also had to deliver the message anyway. I thought it was well played.
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Reportedly he is a very competent skier.
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That doesn't seem consistent with being out of control on a wide gentle blue. That may have been his defence lawyer's claim.
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That doesn't seem consistent with being out of control on a wide gentle blue
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Maybe he wasn't - just not paying attention. Didn't see her till the last minute.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| nil satis wrote: |
| Quote: |
Reportedly he is a very competent skier.
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That doesn't seem consistent with being out of control on a wide gentle blue. That may have been his defence lawyer's claim. |
As a defence that makes no sense whatsoever. Other than that, that was reported immediately after the accident. Iirc the guy is a local from down the valley, volunteer fire-fighter in his early 40s, skiing since forever, going alone on an off day outside holidays, probably using his season pass. I'm pretty sure he's a more competent skier than most people on this forum. The Serpentine piste is trappy, though. Very flat at the top, even requiring some poling. Than steep enough to reach really high speeds, but not as steep to force a good skier to really hit the brakes. In parts it's not as wide as it looks, it's a bit concave and a little bit ondulating. On top of that, there's a section where it splits and reconnects. Wasn't even the first fatal accident on Serpentine!
And that is the main thing anyone can learn from this tragic, unnecessary death of young child: it's not about ability, it's about prudence.
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On his ability... there was an old adage in aviation which would translate into skiing as:
"A superior skier never gets into a situation where he/she has to demonstrate his/her superior skills."
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