Driving through the night during Half Term

A snowHead

Last three years we have driven to Val Cenis whilst traffic has been slow and painful through Chambery and where the A41 from Grenoble joins the A43, once you stay on the A43 toward the Maurienne Valley the traffic completely disappears> I know this is because majority are heading toward Terantaise!

Unfortunately (but also fortunately as I love Paradiski) we will also be heading in the same direction next February half term Saturday 13th February 2027 as I’ve booked an apartment in Belle Plagne via local immo.

Not a great deal we can do to avoid the traffic , wife works in a school and can ask to leave early on the Friday but not guaranteed and also kids are both in separate schools so cards are staked against us on that score. We’re clos(ish) to the tunnel Guildford area so two hours on a decent Friday afternoon run (this year was an hour and a half with a good M25).

This year we stayed in IBIS Troyes arriving around 2100, poor nights sleep left 0345 and got to Val Cenis 1400 which I thought was pretty good going. I‘m Assuming there won’t be any plane sailing and Albertville, Moutier’s will be a snail’s pace.

Appreciate, there’s not a lot that can be suggested other than drive through the night and get to Terentaise before the traffic really builds up. I’ve not driven through the night and I don’t sleep sitting up also I wouldn’t sleep in the car leaving my wife with her stint. I’d appreciate advice on night driving, decent stops, coffee breaks just advice on the best way to go about it as I know there are plenty of folks on there who relish it as well as plenty who despise it? I know it’s tough but far less stressful overall than a killer Saturday so hoping pros outweigh the cons and after a decent rest once we arrive it’s all forgotten. Alternative is we just go with the flow in the knowledge it’s a difficult day.

A snowHead

An alternative is to arrive in resort a lot later. Getting up after a short sleep and arriving at 1400 is perhaps the worst of all worlds. Around 6 - 7 traffic up will be lighter - just need to check access to accommodation. Arriving very early morning is OK but has to be very early and then what do you do? No access to accommodation. Not easy to get organised to ski from the car.

If you can't leave Guildford till after school time (and I know that problem!) you can't guarantee driving off the French side till pretty late French time (having lost an hour) and a non-stop, flat out, night drive is NOT a good idea (I've driven overnight, and am OK with it, but have stops for fresh air and coffee and never did it at a peak time and was always ready to bail and find a hotel if necessary.

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i am driving from Germany and the last HT we were in Avoriaz and Flaine so its not a big deal compare to travelling from UK till Les Arcs, but two years before we had to drive till Chamrousse. And we did it exactly as @James77, said.
We started from Germany around 03.30 am, so we arrived in Chamrousse without a problem at all. Almost zero traffic. We were early enough, but the weather was not so good for skiiing (windy with fog etc) and we just spend some time fooling around and eating something till the Appartment was ready.
We usually arrive everytime earlier as we have, so we always go and ask if its ready. Sometimes not, sometimes yes, or sometimes they manage to have everything ready after a couple of houres, so not a big deal at all.
Better fooling around in the resort, instead staying in traffic somewhere in the car outside Chambery

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^ I'd agree with the later arrival thing. We did it and got through tunnel then stopped a couple of hours down the road at a reasonable time. Had nice dinner, some wine, decent nights sleep then tootled down the road stopping a few times and got into resort about 7pm, Tignes. Traffic was non existent at that time despite being horrendous during the day apparently.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@James77, we are regular through the night drivers.

I would split/describe it into 3 phases.

Outward the drive to the tunnel, crossing and first hour on the other side are no issue. You are going on a ski trip, it's the evening time and everyone is buzzing. My wife usually drives to the tunnel (~3 hours) and I start driving the other side. I try to get some sleep on the drive to the tunnel.

Next phase: after 1-2 hours you are entering the dead of night. This is the difficult part. People fall asleep (hopefully not the driver), the traffic lightens, you are doing the long French motorway stretch, you have a doofer, there is nothing to really do or look at (aside from staying on the road and avoiding juggernauts). The car needs to be quiet, mid-temp, so people can sleep. I used to play music through headphones which helped me but it's now illegal and my wife won't allow me to. My only crutch is energy drinks, the odd fiddle with controls and my ability to self reflect on life. We will switch after a couple of hours and then again and maybe once more depending.

Third phase: By the time of the Lyon airport loop or a little after you are into the early hours of the morning. The body clock starts to naturally feel more awake. At some point, the sun starts to rise and that really helps. When you get to Chambery/Grenoble you start to see the mountains. The hard part is done. We do a supermarket stop. If we are there before opening time, we can all close our eyes for a bit. After the supermarket stop everyone is awake for the last hour drive up. My wife always drives up the mountain because she thinks she's a better driver and enjoys it.

It's not dissimilar on the reverse. We drive down to the valley and have a meal, do a small shop for French things we want to take home. Again, the dead of the night in northern France can be a bit grim but phase 1 and 3 are fine.

It is highly doubtful you will not be able to sleep when your wife is driving, even seated, in the dead of night. When my son got into his early teens he started sitting in the front and the me or the wife could then get partially horizontal in the back. Cushions and blankets help whether you are front or back. Headphones and music/voice might help with sleep.

Aside from energy drinks and water, we do have a flask of coffee - which we drink at driver/wee stops.

On arrival after the outward a lot depends. Sometimes we will go skiing but not always. We didn't at Easter. At Christmas and Easter you will often be able to get access to the apartment early. At HT less likely but not impossible. I generally will stay awake and just go to bed a bit earlier. I wouldn't say I suffer any more after effects than I would do after any long journey.

On arrival after the inbound it's a lot simpler for obvious reasons.

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@Origen, well, if you or the OP literally can not sleep seated/slumped in a car then you have no concerns. It's those of us that can that need to worry/have a strategy Very Happy

After all it is free

@James77, Troyes to Les Arcs is around 6-hours with a smooth run, even with additional half-term traffic I'd expect to be in Albertville by midday leaving early hours from Troyes.

Like you I can't sleep with others driving (this includes planes and trains) and unlike @Origen, I'm barely functioning the next day. Unless you're comfortable with driving overnight, I'd also suggest the late arrival.

Somewhere I recall research finding that people are most likely to fall asleep 12-1am, implying driving through that period is the most dangerous (adjust to suit your personal habits and caffeination). So if you can change drivers around then, with the new one having had an hour or two kip beforehand, it might help.

Or left field suggestion, go to Pyrenees Smile

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I absolutely the hate the feeling of being tired on the motorway and would prefer to go a day early, arrive late in the day, or even just get stuck with the masses than drive through the night.

It is objectively dangerous although obviously different people are going to cope differently with driving through the night:

https://theconversation.com/driving-on-less-than-5-hours-of-sleep-is-just-as-dangerous-as-drunk-driving-study-finds-202514

Other activities I'm quite happy to do on minimal sleep and even non-motorway driving I never feel drowsy. Also, had to tell if its coincidence or not, but I switched to an EV two years ago and haven't felt tired while driving since. Maybe I've just avoided tiring driving situations since or maybe it was the constant hum of the diesel engine that used to induce drowsiness on motorway drives

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EV has less NVH. (And forces longer stops!).

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For me when I was confined by annual leave restrictions, it was leave work at 5 and just drive all the way until we got there. Stops for coffee and fuel but nothing else. I tried hotels en route but I could never sleep very well and was always awake at bloody 3am, so for me it was pointless.

Problem was I was like a zombie all day the next day. Like having a hangover! But at least I was in the mountains looking at a nice view.

@James77, …understand limitations of school.

We have a different destination (turn off at Dijon and via Besancon into CH) but the principle is the same.

I get your timing schedule

Friday end of day head to port
Arrive late evening France
Accommodation available late Sat.

Note the science. You are programmed biologically. 2-6am is the Window of Circadian Low. More accidents in aviation and other skilled activities including driving occur in this window. ‘It is characterised by reduced alertness, slow reaction times and a programmed need for sleep…’

I have driven through the night many times to CH. I will no longer do it. My experience in the past: three options.

Option 1 dangerous and cheap
Friday drive like mad to channel.
Fret on boat and drink vast amounts of coffee or try to grab useless hour of nap.
Drive, drive and more drive for over nine hours.
Fight sleep constantly in window of CL: put on music, have coffee from flask, open window….but still have heavy eyelids.
Feel increasingly sick as cortisols burn through my veins trying to keep awake.
Arrive resort early. Can’t get into accommodation. Can’t ski since I feel crap.
Get into accommodation. Crash out early in the evening.
Wake up feeling rubbish the next day.
Family grumpy since they have had a two terrible nights too.

Option 2 relaxed and a bit more expensive (hotel room for 4 = 80 euros)
Rush to boat
Relax since we have a hotel booked about an hour or so from channel.
Wake up at 7am.
Confirm by phone that we will be arriving late.
Pick a town to aim for to have a nice relaxed lunch.
Resume the journey.
Miss all the traffic since everyone has hurtled down.
Arrive at 9pm-10pm and get 7 hours good sleep.
Ski Sunday feeling good.

Option three relaxed and a bit more expensive again
Rush to boat
Relax since we have a hotel booked about an hour or so from channel.
Wake up at 7am.
Confirm by phone that we will arrive EARLY ON SUNDAY
Pick a town to aim for to have a nice relaxed lunch.
Resume the journey.
Miss all the traffic since everyone has hurtled down.
Arrive at Hotel about hour or two from resort at 9pm-10pm and get 7 hours good sleep.
Up at 6am to drive to report
Unload and gear on for 9:30 start having bought passes on line in advance and be well organised.

But we have experience of the Window of Circadian Low. We are already in the Alps and waiting for friends. By late afternoon they are still not here and no response from phones. We are worried. Eventually I get a call. ‘We will be there tomorrow’ ‘what happened’ ‘we were rear-ended on the Autoroute at 120kph at 3am’. ‘Argh evryone OK?’ ‘Yes but it’s been mad…car written off, all the equipment all over the autoroute, everyone in a state….’

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

yes…

A lack of sleep, particularly when it leads to elevated cortisol levels, can cause significant physical symptoms, including feeling physically sick, nauseous, and experiencing headaches. Sleep deprivation acts as a stressor, causing cortisol levels—typically lowest at night—to remain elevated, which disrupts the gut-brain axis and immune system function.
www.thesleepclinicmd.com

The stats are actually shocking

From NSC
While we do only one quarter of our driving at night, 50% of traffic deaths happen at night. It doesn't matter whether the road is familiar or not, driving at night is always more dangerous… A National Sleep Foundation poll says 60% of adults have driven while they were tired, and another 37%, or 103 million people, have fallen asleep at the wheel. Of those, 13% say they fall asleep while driving at least once a month, and 4% say they have caused a crash by falling asleep while driving. The reasons are many – shift work, lack of quality sleep, long work hours, sleep disorders – and it doesn't only happen on lengthy trips. These staggering numbers are backed up by a report by NHTSA that 100,000 police-reported crashes are a result of driver fatigue. Most crashes or near-misses happen at the times you would expect drivers to be tired: 4 to 6 a.m., midnight to 2 a.m. and 2 to 4 p.m., according to NSF.

Gulp.

A snowHead

Don't each too much, especially fast carbs early on, nuts are quite a good option. Stick to water, no energy drinks or sugary stuff. Save the coffee for between 1-5am when you will need it, can have 3-4 then. Stop lots between those hours even if you already have coffee, I often stop at every big aire or autohof even if it is a few minutes to walk and have a drink between those hours. I sleep on the ferry crossing and this year I had nap at about 3-4am. Once the Sun starts rising any tiredness goes for me.

A snowHead

@Glosterwolf, well I do indeed eat nuts on the autoroute but…

In 2013
A new study by the French motorway company association, ASFA, reveals improved safety during 2012. The data shows that the number of people killed on French motorways was 26% lower for 2012 than for 2011. Of the fatal accidents that did occur, nearly 40% were due to driver inattention. Meanwhile driver fatigue was another major issue causing one third of fatal accidents. Alcohol or drug use was responsible for 20% of fatalities on French motorways. Speeding was attributed to 15.7% of fatalities on French mo
Read More
Drowsy driving dangers for road users

November 2, 2018
Up to 25% of fatal road crashes in the UK are caused by drowsy driving. This is the result of research carried out jointly by the AA Charitable Trust. The research suggests that men and young drivers are most likely to be at risk from drowsy driving. Meanwhile the research shows that 13% of UK drivers admit falling asleep at the wheel. And 37% say they have been so tired they have been scared they would fall asleep when driving.

For sure the stats are one thing and we are all different to a degree….

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I agree the safest advice is stop and don't drive between 1 and 6.

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Some really useful advice thank you.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'd say that it's viable if you have 4 or more drivers. But the last time we did it there were only two drivers and it really didn't work in terms of stamina and attention. With four drivers you can get a 6-hour break between 2-hour sessions at the wheel. But with two that's much shorter and won't necessarily coincide with when you feel you need a nap. And in winter, unless you're an EV, you'll need to keep the engine running if you stop for a longer break. We found that we just didn't get a good sleep when we did stop for an hour in the worst 'low' period of the night, because the outside is still cold.

If the vehicle is an EV, it might be more feasible for three or even two drivers, because you're forced to stop to recharge. And there'd be the added bonus of autoroute charge stations not being in heavy demand if it's a big change-over school holiday date.

But in summary, I'd say it's understandable to want to streamline the journey, and some people can make it work, but we gave up after three overnights.

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We used to drive overnight quite a bit when our son was young. He'd fall asleep more or less as we left home and wake up around Albertville saying "are we there yet". Even now though we drive now through the day and and he's in his 30s he still sleeps most of the way.

We'd leave home about 19:00 on the Friday (or Thursday at Easter) and get to France about midnight to 1:00 then a 10 hour drive to Les Arcs. We never found skiing from the car a problem the first day or the last. We would drive for 2 to 3 hours then swap drivers. The non driver slept in the back of the car while the other drove. Neither my wife or I have any problem sleeping while the other drives. If we both were too tired we'd stop at an Aire and simply sleep. We still largely sleep while driving through the day.

I did drive it solo once overnight. In the end I slept for 3 hours in an aire. My son still woke up and paid the tolls.

We have never overdosed on coffee, energy drinks etc. Just relying on stopping we felt too tired.

@James77, Did it really take 10:15 hours to get from Troyes to Val Cenis. A normal journey from Calais to Les Arcs will take 9:30 to 10 hours.

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@johnE, …much the thing I did in the mid 2000s when the Grom and Gromette were small…but I’ve done the Alps Haul over 200 times now and I realise that I was genuinely too tired on occasion - so as much as I love driving (I genuinely do) I pay attention to the research and try to avoid driving fatigued. I can’t share driving with my partner since she falls asleep at the wheel on the autoroute with no notice at any time of day or night….

After all it is free

@johnE, Just checked my car app, yes it did take 10 hours to get from Troyes on Saturday 14th February with is being a busy half term day, however that did include an hour at the Intermarche in Modane so 9 hours driving. The traffic was initially fine and we were doing well but as we approached Chambery there was an accident that caused traffic to stop we had the choice of sitting it out on the autoroute or taking a diversion and we ended up on slow roads culminating in an interesting trip through the centre of Grenoble before re-joining the A43 form the south. That was better going than the previous year when we left Reims about 0600 and arrived in Val Cenis at 1800! Never seen the roads so congested as that, accident after accident. This is why I'm considering the drive overnight.

To be honest there is no way of doing an easy drive to the big French resorts at half term. And when you get there, there will be lift queues. And busy pistes. Despite spending 15 winters skiing in France, when we had an apartment, we were only ever there for one half term - that was enough! We did that to accommodate visiting family which included a teacher but we insisted they flew Sunday/Sunday as I was doing the transfer driving. It was still a mistake though, as normally we never did lift queues!!

I would prefer either Christmas or Easter to half term, and if FORCED to go skiing at half term, would go to Italy, not France.

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@James77, Honestly think that was a one-off nightmare of a drive, however understand you'd want to avoid a repeat!

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A long drive is a long drive. And motorway driving is tedious. If you are unrested and tired there are obviously safety concerns. Day or night.

Driving in the night has the down side of fighting your body clock but there is an upside in the sense of the roads are quieter and there are naturally fewer hazards. Therefore it can be less tiring.

Weather plays some part also. On a windy and rainy night the levels of concentration are heightened.

A friend was working long days before his ski trip, got an hour into his Friday evening journey on the M25 and fell asleep at the wheel.

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Just take the train and stay over in Paris or Lille on Friday night so you can reach resort Saturday lunchtime and get organised for the next day's skiing. On the way back you can easily do the journey in a day and even do a bit of sightseeing in Paris on the Saturday afternoon.

I would never drive as far as the alps without an overnight stop and I also wouldn't go at half term. When our kids were school age we either did Christmas and the first week of the Easter holidays or two weeks at Easter.

I know you've booked accomodation but any scope to cancel and consider driving to Aosta? Done that a few times at Feb half term and the roads are quiet (you have the option to go cross country at Jura into Italy via GSB tunnel and avoid the potentially busy Bourg en Bresse to Mont Blanc tunnel section).

The resorts and pistes are very quiet then too (apart from brit school kids at Pila maybe).

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I have regularly driven long distances, including trips to and from the Alps. Sometimes alone and without an overnight stop. I generally try to maintain a mental outlook that I am "heading for" a destination, rather than aiming to arrive there by some pre-ordained time. Sailors are taught to start the log of a trip noting it is a "voyage towards...".

Sometimes I've intended to stop, then found myself feeling so alert and OK that I've carried on, and vice versa. We once pulled off a very foggy motorway into Dijon, hours before we'd reckoned to stop, and drove around in murky freezing fog looking for a bed for the night. Another time, driving north somewhere not far from Bourg en Bresse, we were making so little headway, on a snowy motorway with only one lane ploughed, we pulled off and stopped for supper and then stopped for the night when the snow showed no sign of letting up. Driving home to the south coast of England from the wild west of Scotland last year I'd booked myself into a hotel near where we used to live in Ayrshire, and had a good supper (no booze) been for a walk and got into the comfortable bed good and early. And stayed awake.... by 2 am I'd given up trying to sleep and decided to start driving south. I envy people who can claim to have had a "good night's sleep" in 6 hours in a 2'6" bunk on a car ferry!

That sort of flexibility doesn't fit well with half term travel and family expectations. Not least because it can become very difficult to find hotel rooms. Driving to the conditions, and to one's own feelings, is important. Driving in convoy is particularly hazardous, I reckon.

Making sure you have the flexibility to respond to conditions, and don't feel bound by somebody else's requirements, is important.

A snowHead

It’s whatever works isn’t it, we’re fortunate enough to travel on Friday now. I do like the way overnight stop at Macon and a nice meal, early ish start and easily into resort at lunchtime.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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When time and money are not in short supply, a good overnight stop and a meal is obviously very pleasant. But for many families a ski holiday, even with few frills, is really stretching the budget. Dinner, bed and breakfast somewhere nice in each direction can easily add some hundreds of pounds. A cheap budget hotel, having stopped earlier to buy some baguettes, ham and cheese, then hoping the kids will sleep for a couple of hours, might be more realistic. To stop in time for a civilised meal means forfeiting a lot of miles!

Civilised groups of adults sharing costs, without such tight financial or time constraints are unlikely to be doing the mad dash at half term! Finishing work/school Friday afternoon, starting again Monday morning - I marvel that so many do it with such good humour.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

My point above is that you can't be sure in advance what WILL work - make a good plan, but be ready to change it.

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@Origen,

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@KSH, ...ah indeed. And the feeling and smell of a fresh hotel pillowcase on the first night, a relaxed distance into France....

There’s still avios flights available so I’d fly which is what I’ve always done at half term.

Failing that, rather than a high risk (it’s good to see so many people pointing out the relative risks of driving whilst tired, through the night, in a foreign country, on unfamiliar roads, potentially in bad weather), if I were going to drive at half term, I’d leave the UK Saturday morning after the bulge of traffic, and aim to arrive in resort either very late that night, or stop in Moutiers and arrive first thing the next morning to ski.

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@snowdave, There are many drawbacks of flying to a ski hol not least the fact that at half term you would still get stuck in any traffic in the Tarentaise. Taking the train avoids all that as I think you can get off the train at Aime at the foot of the mountain.

Help!!

Driving through the night during Half Term

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