Vail owned Swiss resort (Crans-Montana) closes early during local holidays, upsetting locals

A snowHead

@Haggis_Trap, I was in Whistler and Mt.Baker in 2005, and that was known locally as "The year of no snow" so I'd suggest making statements based off a single datapoint is at best unwise - so take this with a pinch of salt, but one of the best days riding I ever had was hiking out on that ridge line and sessioning the bowls at Kicking Horse in thigh deep champagne powder.

In fact all of my early riding was in North America, when the world was cheaper, and I will always laud it, because nostalgia is a seductive liar. Similarly I dislike St.Anton because I had food poisoning there, so forever tainted, like the meat I ate.

To me, and this is just me, European riding has always been a compromise; knowingly settling for convenience, primarily put on since the kids came along. I would happily travel 8-10-12 hours to try to recatch those lightning in a bottle moments I had in the early noughties. I know I'm probably kidding myself and they'll feel different now I've got 25+ years under my belt but there you go... Japan one day, but I'm probably too old and fat to truely appreciate it. Better take the kids.

A snowHead

^ that kind of agrees with the point I was making

North American skiing is fun. But when starting from Europe it's a long way to go. Combination of exchange rate / lift pass price and distance means you could have 2 or 3 weeks in Europe for price of one in USA.

Hence reason most people take pragmatic decision like yourself to ski in Europe. Though North Americans often rave about the skiing in Europe - culture, scale, food, size of mountains, off piste access etc wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Haggis_Trap, I've always thought the cultural aspect of skiing is a bit overblown. Imo ski resorts tend to be one of the worst places to experience local culture as it's usually a niche subset of local people that are not particularly reflective of the wider population, and in some cases more tourists than locals.

Think it's true for both sides of the pond. There is a reason whistler village often gets compared to Disney rather than being considered an authentic representation of Canada.

That's not to say you can't make it into a more cultural experience, but usually the best way would be to get away from the resort and go visit a "real" village/city.

Although, I think in some cases people don't actually want authenticity and actually prefer the "Disneyfied" fake resort. I've met people who enjoyed the skiing at kicking horse but were rather disappointed by golden as a place and would have much preferred it been developed away from a normal (quite boring) Canadian sledneck town.

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@Haggis_Trap, Taxy for Haggis for that comment.

(I’m in the one behind you!).

After all it is free

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Surprisingly this has turned out to be a very good read Smile

Make yourself a cuppa.

It has reinforced my belief that for me quality - in this case snow quality - trumps quantity.

But every once in a while a large, well known ski area (quantity), with generally high prices (quantity) will deliver an exceptional day of skiing (quality + quantity) to justify its status in the ski world.

Case in point, I spent the two weeks of Easter at Les Deux Alpes repping for Equity School Ski. No queues, great snow conditions, two snowfalls, powder, huge vertical, amazing views, great food.

After one season as a chalet boy for Crystal in Ellmau, Austria in 1993-94 and an Easter holiday to Stranda, Norway in 1996 the influence of US made ski movies and subscriptions to Powder, Backcountry and Couloir magazines saw me holidaying and working in N America from 1997 to 2006 in search of powder.

By all accounts this was the sweet spot for a European heading to N America in terms of cost.

Holidays ski touring in Canada's Selkirk mountains with Selkirk Mountain Experience and independently at Roger's Pass in 1997 were followed by a month at what was then Big Mountain, Montana in 1998, before two seasons working there as a rep for Inghams (1999-2000 and 2000-2001).

During that time I skied other resorts in Northern Montana; road trips to Fernie, Big White and Rogers Pass in British Columbia; road trips to Utah; and ski touring in the Cascade Range (Mt Adams, Mount St Helens).

This was followed by 2 seasons at Kicking Horse, BC in their early days and road trips to most of the other resorts in the area.

A season in Park City, Utah and a season at Keystone, Colorado.

During that time I skied 5 states out West and 34 ski resorts.

I was also skiing 2-4 weeks each year in S America between 2000 and 2005.

From Keystone, Colorado I went to Niseko, Japan and caught the best years of Hokkaido IMHO.

But in the past 10-15 years I've spent from 1-week to seasons in Europe primarily visiting the 'next best spot resorts' over the established mega resorts and freeride mainstays. I've skied plenty of those too and had great conditions and days at places like Chamonix, La Grave, Engelberg to name but three.

But I've followed the snow for the most part in this time and that's what's made ski resorts big and very small work for me - snow quality.

I've had 'Utah Greatest Snow on Earth' & 'Hokkaido JaPOW' days all across Europe because of planning. And that's kept my costs down and allowed me to have more days on snow each season.

I also skied Crans Montana for the first time this season and I loved it. I was working and being hosted so didn't have to fork out for the extortionate prices (compared with where I usually ski) but really enjoyed the skiing, views, and food. I was there for the World Cup Racing weekend and it was an amazing experience. The slopes were quiet too!

I've worked for Vail and skied at a number of Vail resorts and if you work with their system and not rail against it it's hard to beat IMHO.

AND for every Vail or Alterra resort there are literally tens to hundreds of alternatives.

I find the whole discussion sometimes to be like a vegetarian complaining that there's not enough choice / their needs are not being met at a restaurant like Hawksmoor.

This is purely speculative, but hear me out....

In the US the resort owns everything from the lifts and pistes, to the restaurants, ski schools etc.

In Europe in Crans they don't, they just run the lifts. Would it be unconceivable that Vail would shorten the season (not that they changed the date this year, they just set it earlier than usual) in order to try to drive out businesses and they could then try to take over restaurants, ski schools etc and try to run it like a North American resort.

I could be way off the mark here, but I was just thinking about it.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@Haggis_Trap, I agree that Chamonix is exceptional as a town from which one can ski (ie some of the uplift is from the town itself) and still find much of general cultural interest but, in my experience, that's not typical of European ski resorts. Chamonix is very special!

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Haggis_Trap, I agree Briançon and was actually going to cite that myself, never been to Innsbruck or Grimentz, but I don't think Zermatt, Alagna or Cortina compare in intrinsic culture/interest. But this is, of course, quite subjective. I'm happy to bow to your greater curiosity and knowledge.

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@phil_w, I do think that's where the Dolomites score, there's 'food culture' available all over the place, at quite a range of prices.

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@Haggis_Trap, I'm more interested in alpinism than most and a lot of that was completely lost on me. I don't think the average tourist really cares, they are more interested in queuing up for hours to have a photo in the glass box at the top of the midi Laughing

. It's the same in Pokhara, Nepal which has the International Mountaineering Museum which is probably visited by less than 1% of visitors. There are lots of places where alpinism is a big part of history/culture. While Chamonix is perhaps number one I just don't get that alone makes for a cultural experience - especially as the majority don't engage with it.

You go to Nepal and the mountains are full of history, but ask somebody about culture there and they will talk about the food, prayer flags, language stupas, different ethnic groups, people etc.

@phil_w, by far the best food I've had in the last year is my favourite hole in the wall Indian place in Kathmandu which costs pennies. I also visited the fancy Indian restaurant in thamel (third eye) where you pay more than triple for worse tasting food but fancy tablecloths, and all the tourists lap it up Laughing

I like the food in France and would argue it doesn't need to be expensive - nice baguette and some brie for example is a perfect lunch. Perhaps it's a western concept that good food has to be expensive, all over Asia there is excellent affordable street food.

I do think the days of having to go abroad to taste a cuisine are over. Even Kathmandu has a highly rated "artisan pattiserie" shop! Laughing

Sure, for real connoisseurs I'm sure you can appreciate the regional variety and small details but most of us are not there. (In fact many are not even looking for local food - the times I went out to eat with other tourists in Chamonix they wanted pizza and mexican food!)

Also how good/authentic is the average restaurant in a resort aimed at tourists? I suspect in general you'd find better food at better prices elsewhere than a ski resort.

But I can get behind the environment adding to the experience. Would the same bread and hummus I had at Hashems in downtown Amman sitting in the warm evening air with the call to prayer and Arabic chatter around taste as good in a pub garden in UK? Probably not Laughing

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@abc, Always pay in local when asked on the card machine. It is cheaper.

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@abc, from AI:

Yes, it is almost always cheaper to pay in the local currency and let your bank or card provider handle the exchange rate. Paying in your home currency (GBP) [my comment - or $ in your case] allows the foreign merchant to set an arbitrary exchange rate (Dynamic Currency Conversion) that is generally far worse than rates provided by Mastercard or Visa.

Why Local Currency is Cheaper:
Better Rates: Banks use competitive exchange rates set by Visa or Mastercard.
Avoid Hidden Fees: Choosing GBP (Home Currency) enables Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC), which often includes high hidden markups.
Consistent Rates: Your bank's currency conversion is consistently cheaper than the rate offered by foreign retailers or ATMs.

With the right credit card you will get near perfect exchange rates. If you let the company doing your card transaction do the conversion they could take a 5% cut or more. In the UK, look at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/travel-credit-cards/.

You know it makes sense.

@Alastair Pink, I’ve never been offered to pay in my “home” currency except in Canada (which is universal). Everywhere I traveled so far, it’s always in local currency.

Hence my confused question mark.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@tsgsh, different credit cards does foreign transactions differently. It pays to shop around.

I have one credit card that I use exclusively for foreign transactions.

A snowHead

I think both Epic and IKON for next season are going up in price soon ... did you get your passes or as we like to say "put your $ where your mouth is" ?

IKON did not work out so great for me, due to low snow conditions in Colorado, Utah, NM and Utah and ended up skiing more in Europe where it cost me the same (and even cheaper considering other associated costs) as if I had not purchased early IKON ... Lesson learned, I hope Euro resorts don't buy into this path any further. I would love to ski in Crans-Montana but not liking MTN approach. Plenty of "season" pass options in Europe for far less money and better skiing ...

Why Crans-Montana (or Andermatt) sold to MTN is beyond me, what were they thinking ? Now town's future (ski part of it) is decided on Wall Street !

Plenty to observe and discuss about MTN strategy going forward, their expansionist plan hit the snag with low snow year at their premium resorts and labor turmoil at their flagship resort in the high season ... enough to cause change of leadership but "the new one" is "the old one" who presided over rapid expansion and introduction of this business model ? We'll see where this goes from here ...

Full disclosure Wink

Once I stopped skiing MTN resorts because I did not like their business policies regarding many issues (mostly environmental and social) - I bought their stock and profited nicely since then ... Now I go short !

A snowHead

Ok - as part of what has become a very interesting thread, here’s some inside line on Crans Montana.

Way back in the mists of time, Crans Montana merged with Aminona to become CMA. And the lifts creaked on. All Commune owned. Much in need of investment and updating. A trio of updates in the 1990s included the four person Pas du Loup chair, the Toula four-by (replacing a long drag) and some mods to the Barmaz chair. The ancient, freezing-in-shadow and blown-by-downdraught Nationale two person chair was a liability, being a key linking lift between Sector Montana and Sector Crans. The main gondola from Grand Signal to Cry D’Er used the sort of weird round pods which used to run from Meribel to Courchevel ridge. And was knackered. A huge investment in a new funitel to Plaine Morte left the Commune awash with debt. But the place was buzzing then - heaving at high season.

The Commune did not have many choices. CMA is neither big nor small. Difficult. Should it link with Anzere to become a rival to the big systems? There was talk of that. A long lift to Rawyl, with an entrance to Anzere at Les Rousses. But despite feasibility studies this was just a HUGE project. But more investment was needed in a resort which needed more snow making kit, and further lift upgrades. Substantial upgrades. Aminona base to top gondola was quaint but ancient, and re-certification was not guaranteed.

BTW…at this time, as had been the case for decades, the lifts closed on the Tuesday after Easter Monday - IIRC irrespective of when Easter fell. Don’t forget that in the olden days, the snow was crap in late March onwards - we were always mud-hopping and repairing bases daily. That was before major snowfalls shifted to so late in the season. It was simply that the snow was bad, the wages in the construction industry etc were better than the pisteur wages, and the time-specific winter contracts terminated at that point in the year and everyone went off to repair roads and build houses. Remember that no construction occurred in the winter then, and things had to start promptly in the Spring to get it all done before winter came again in late Oct early Nov.

Back to the timeline. In the face of the need to invest, what CMA did astonished other Communes and Cantons. They sold a majority share to a Czech billionaire. I think there was a notion that they could retain control too. Investment started big time. New lifts at Arnouva. The National chair replaced with a new six seat express lift. Barmaz demolished. Pas du Loup demolished. Cry D’Er restaurant and station demolished and entirely rebuilt. And sadly, the large cable car between Cry D’Er and Bella Lui removed - that was a lifeline removed for the Hungarian waiters at the eccentric but wonderful Bella Lui restaurant. The lift provided a pedestrian and staff route to the restaurant, which then tried to remain open but slowly died. So…a combination of good and bad modernisation. A hint of things to come from the new owner.

The key relationship between the Commune - who had specific requriements - and the new owner - who had a strong sense of control - quickly turned sour. Seemingly golden in the first few years, suddenly the new owner was closing the resort during the season to protest against the Commune, to the fury of ski schools and local businesses. Pistes were closed and not prepared. And then the international economy changed, and the CHF went from 2,5 to the pound to 1,5. And then the Swiss employment regs changed and the well established chalet system was hollowed out completely. Income dropped. The lifts closed on days they should have been open - ski schools were left explaining the weirdness to clients. In fact it seemed like the more snow there was, the more closures there were. The wonderful Col du Pochet run, the sole sun-protected black in resort, was seldom open….so the big snow field at the back of Bella Luiwas off the cards since the drag out of the bowl was not working and it was either a cliff drop to get back to Violettes or a huge schlep back up the hill. The available terrain was shrinking. The town moved from a buzz to an echo. Over in Aminona, a huge Russian investment died, but not before the lift had been demolished in anticipation of the mega-residence-shopping complex, which never materialised. And then major structural cracks were discovered in the huge Grand Signal base station at Montana - another huge investment needed. The Big Sale turned out to be a disappointment, not a Grand Revival. And the new owner had tried full vertical integration - owning everything including lifts, access, restaurants, ski schools, retail outlets. And the local health centre. But it was all creaking, suddenly, and where were the skiers? Numbers were way, way down. On the Magic Pass, then off. Strategy seemed random and the income seemed elusive.

The rest of Switzerland said ‘told you so’ in the national press.

The billionaire became embroiled in financial litigation in the American courts. His relationship with the Commune turned completely sour. He had other things on his mind. And that was the context in which suddenly a deal with Vail was announced. We assumed a huge hike in lift prices, restrictions to save money as before, and pecuniary interest dominating all. Not so. We have seen MUCH better snow management, better lift opening, and new and more equitable pass costs. Yes, an increase in parking costs but not to Three Valley prices. Yes, the Vache Noire restaurant is still only partially open but we did get goulash soup after a long tour up, thank goodness. Vail are doing OK. It does not feel like a corporate takeover with priorities insensitive to locals. I agree, the announcement of 21st as the closing date and then a switch to the 6th was not good, but it was announced well in advance and as I mentioned is actually in line with what traditionally happened in the locality, with construction calling. The snow was soup on the 5th when we skied it, and another week of surfing was not a great prospect. Yes a few lifts for the dedicated could have stayed open, but those in the know simply went to Grimentz, St Luc or Vercorin. We certainly did. Better snow on that side of the valley, since it is mostly North facing.

So there we are. One take on the story of CMA.

And if you want a sense of locality and long-running community skiing, the car or postbus can take you to Arolla, Nax (mega off piste), Vercorin, Grimentz, Chandolin, and Les Rousses. Or even Rosswald and Lauchernalp. All within 40 mins of Crans Montana. Tiny places, amazing skiing, secret stashes, quiet touring routes, and lovely food and people. And skiing like it has been for six decades. And the main access lift at Nax feels that old…..because it is. Creak grind.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

That's a brilliant read.

Thanks.

Found this very interesting

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An interesting overview @valais2, and much more complicated than cursory comment on here would project.

Nax sounds interesting, I've not visited, yet Very Happy

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@Valais2 - great post!
Crans Montana (outside magic pass) always struck me as something of an anomaly.
A posh resort, retaining some small town swiss charm, but without the size to compete with Verbier / Zermatt
I remember going there on a family summer holiday and these was still summer skiing on the Plain Morte (which fascinated me).
Must have been early 90s.

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@Haggis_Trap, I think that’s right…witness the ‘white ribbon effect’ of some resorts. But we’ve also seen amazing late dumps in the Rhine valley - year after year now … some genuine fresh and deep - which obviously decays FAST - but is dumped nonetheless not just made - we had the best snow of the season on March 28th

Help!!

Vail owned Swiss resort (Crans-Montana) closes early during local holidays, upsetting locals

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