 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just had a look back at my "diary" and I've clocked up circa 120 skate sessions in the past six or so years, I actually thought it was more, but it really depends on the conditions as powder always take priority 
But it's the ability to regularly go out and work on technique that is so crucial, that's if you're so inclined.
You know when the technique feels good, and I'm never sure whether I'm mixing V1 with V2 
And it's only when I see my times on various segments and the subsequent power and heart rate numbers am I able to deduce that fitness and/or technique has improved.
The actual fitness metrics generated are so much more intense compared to other endurance sports that I still try and do, and no matter how I try I find it really hard to take it easy, not helped by having some long drags.
I do go through phases of watching technique vids but do end up migrating back to my mishmash, however such are the joys of Strava I can see how my times equate to others and for an old git who started late in life they're not too bad.
But I'm fortunate in that I can be selective when to go and I have all season and it's the piste is 5mins walk from where I live.
And today's French lesson and you can see how conditions took a turn for the better today, though I opted for ski-touring.
 DERNIER DAMAGE : Le 16/03/2026 soir
Bonjour à tous !
La neige a décidément un pouvoir de transformation fascinant, les conditions de ski sont très bonnes aujourd'hui..
Grâce au froid de la nuit et au travail minutieux des dameurs, coup de baguette magique !
Le skating et le classique seront donc très agréables aujourd'hui, seule la variante de la Virade n'a pas pu être redamée hier et restera donc fermée aujourd'hui...
A tout ceux qui ne peuvent pas venir aujourd'hui, pas de panique le ski sera encore excellent demain et tout le domaine sera redamé ce soir....
Les pistes piétons ont été retracées de Villeneuve au Casset et seront également redamées ce soir dans leur intégralité !
Profitons encore de la neige et de toute la glisse qu'elle nous offre !
Bonne journée
PISTES OUVERTES (31.4 km) :
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
....
For alpine skiers of decent skill, learning to skate isn’t as hard as it seems. You get huge amount of glide, which is what makes nordic skiing fun.
It’s more demanding on fitness level though. (I’m really suffering on that front)...... |
You started it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@abc, lighten up for fecks sake.......
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@Weathercam, take your own advice for whatever’s sake…
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is my experience based on training club cross country skiers.
People claim that classic technique is easier than skating; what they really mean is the entry level is lower. A beginner can stand in tracks, shuffle, and move forward with some success. In that narrow sense, classic is more accessible.
But accessible is not the same as technically easier to master.
At a higher level, classic can be very demanding because it asks for something very exact: you must create grip without visibly interrupting glide. That means the skier has to time the compression of the ski, transfer full body mass cleanly, and then release back into glide with precision. A lot of skiers never really do that. They look as though they are classic skiing, but they are actually alternating between partial shuffle, partial step, and under-powered glide. This is something DoM referred to as Stupid Human Tricks (https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=176290#5550712)
Uphill exposes these tricks. On a climb, flaws cannot hide:
* incomplete weight transfer means the ski does not fully load
* poor loading means no clean kick
* no clean kick means the skier compensates with hurried steps, extra arm effort, or loss of rhythm
In skate, you can often “get away with” muscular pushing and still produce motion. In classic, if the ski is not properly weighted, the whole mechanism breaks down.
We see this often in ski instructor evaluation. Classic reveals fundamentals more harshly. It shows whether someone truly understands:
* balance over one ski
* complete transfer of mass
* timing of force application
* glide confidence
A candidate may look competent in skate through fitness, coordination, and athleticism, but classic often asks a purer question: can you actually stand, commit, and move efficiently from ski to ski?
In short
Classic is easier to begin, but harder to do well.
Skate is harder to begin, but easier to fake competently.
Classic technique, especially diagonal stride, is very unforgiving of technical weakness. When done well it looks simple; when done badly it becomes obvious very quickly.
For the one week per year skier being able to shuffle around the loipe for a few kms while enjoying the chat and the great outdoors may give plenty of enjoyment. Not everyone is a budding Klaebo or Karlsson.
A tale of two techniques
Remember that skating grew out of classic skiing’s balance, weight transfer, glide, and pole timing, but then reorganized them around lateral push instead of kick wax / grip-zone propulsion. Skate skiing is not a separate universe, it is more like a technical descendant of classic.
Classic diagonal stride corresponds loosely to V1 / offset skate in the sense that both are asymmetrical and rhythm-based. In diagonal stride, one leg kicks while the opposite arm drives. In V1, one skate push is paired with a stronger poling action on one side of the rhythm. They feel different mechanically, but both reward timing and coordinated whole-body movement.
Double poling in classic has the clearest equivalent in skate V2 because you pole with every skate step.
Herringbone in classic corresponds very directly to uphill skating / wide V skate. In both cases, you abandon long glide and focus on climbing through edging and leg push.
A lot of what makes someone good at skate skiing is already present in good classic skiing:
* balance on one ski
* full commitment of body weight
* controlled glide
* precise edge use
* disciplined pole timing
That said, the big difference is this:
In classic, propulsion comes from a backward push against grip. In skating, propulsion comes from a sideways/lateral push off the inside edge.
That changes a lot:
* hip mechanics are wider in skate (if you have hip issues this may be a problem)
* ankle edging matters more
* ski placement is more active
* center-of-mass movement is more obviously side-to-side but don't be fooled a classic skier is also aligning their nose and knee over the foot
* glide is usually longer on a single ski in a more obvious way
A strong classic skier often learns skate faster because the essential skills : balance, glide, transfer, posture, and timing are already there.
Both techniques are variations on the same Nordic principles: move your mass cleanly onto one ski, glide efficiently, and apply force at the right moment.
So where to start?
So classic skiing can be a good basis for eventually learning skate skiing. Personally I would not recommend a 1 week ski holiday to a beginner, at least not one focussed on purely cross country skiing. I would suggest a couple of lessons to get the fundamentals then progress a bit on your own but before any technique errors get ingrained (as RedandWhiteFlachau’ said) then return to do more lessons or coaching. This could be over a couple of holidays.
If you do a 10 km tour you are perhaps making the same movement 10,000 times, it is very easy to ingrain technique errors which are then difficult to unwire later with instruction. More-so than with Alpine I think. Also errors in technique can lead to repetitive strains that will impair the enjoyment of the sport over the long term.
I would not recommend rollerskis to absolute beginners as the falls and tumbles onto hard surfaces can be quite painful. However you can do all of the on snow skate techniques on rollerblades which are easier to handle compared to rollerskis. You don’t even need poles to practise. Also the balance you learn rollerblading and riding a skate will pay off on the snow.
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@sherman-maeir, thanks so much for that! It makes me feel better about not getting very good at all at classic XC after three weeks of lessons over 2 years, with practice in between! I recognise what you are talking about. "C'est un sport de glisse, ne marchez pas!" one instructor was wont to shout! If you're just going to shuffle around, better to do a walk on snow-shoes, which are much less likely to make you fall over. And will generally give more scope and choice of routes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@sherman-maeir, @Origen, I quite like the "Skate is harder to begin, but easier to fake competently."
One omission, if I may, in the concise detail above from @sherman-maeir, and something so obvious currently, is that of conditions, and I would stick my neck out and say that Classic is not so dependent on conditions, especially this time of year.
And no doubt I'll again incur the wrath of someone here, but yesterday the conditions for skating were superb, and I managed a number of PB's, some dating back to 2022, so it just shows that both the conditions and hopefully an element of continual striving to improve one's technique can go a long way 
Right I'll get into my foxhole
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
And no doubt I'll again incur the wrath of someone here |
The worst wrath to attention seeker is to ignore it.
| sherman-maeir wrote: |
This is my experience based on training club cross country skiers.
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Clearly someone who knows what he’s talking about. Excellent summation.
Thank you very much.
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you can do all of the on snow skate techniques on rollerblades which are easier to handle compared to rollerskis. You don’t even need poles to practise. Also the balance you learn rollerblading and riding a skate will pay off on the snow.
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That confirms my suspicion. I thought skating, either on ice skate or on roller blade, would be very helpful for skating on xc skis.
The fact they’re done without poles is actually an advantage? I was told, when I started learning skating, beginner skaters are encourage to not use poles till say, their second or third season. No pole skate really expose flaws on balance and weight transfer.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 23-03-26 1:42; edited 1 time in total
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@Weathercam, yes, I liked that quote too! I was never strong and athletic enough to even consider even incompetent skating. However, as I pottered mindfully round the lovely XC area in Les Saisies, often passed by magnificent specimens in Lycra, I think I was beginning to be able to tell which were relying on superior athleticism and strength and which had that extra indefinable something which made it look effortless! they all looked good to me, especially skating uphill and looking relaxed on the downhill.
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You know it makes sense.
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@sherman-maeir's summation is a longer and better transcript of my first lesson and discussion with the instructor. Well done, almost monetizable! I'm going to print it and stick it the the ski bag for next season.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rolandorolando wrote: |
Hi,
I'm wondering about a nordic skiing/cross-country ski holiday (I've done it many years ago in Scotland, but decades ago) - so I just wondered if anyone had any useful links to places to look, or recommended companies, organisations etc ...??
Thanks
Roland |
@rolandorolando
Exodus Cross Country ski holidays
https://www.exodus.co.uk/activities/winter-holidays/cross-country-skiing
They offer guided cross country ski holidays in various locations. They took over the operation of Waymark Ski Holidays who were the leading provider of this type of holiday many years ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@nahdendee, Many thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just took a quick look. Many of these holidays are "self-guided". Basically, it's a package holiday that includes hotels and meals. And ground transfer if you're buying flights from them.
I guess it isn't all that different from alpine ski package holidays. The only difference being the destinations are Nordic ski hubs rather than mountain resorts.
Seems a bit pricy for example on the Dolomite package at £1999 without flights. Though the Seefeld package looks a great value for similar experience.
A good source for where and when to go.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Crazy prices!
This week, for instance, a superb Airbnb 3-bed apartment is €800 - smaller ones are obviously far less.
Then book my neighbour, Amelie Laurendon, who is an ESF XC instructor 4 half days and she'd probably take you to some other valleys, and you'll still have loads of change!
As for no poles, conditions were so good Saturday, that on the return with a slight descent 25m over 1km for two/three km it was nigh on impossible to use your poles as you could skate and straightline so quickly that the poles just got in the way almost, with pace circa 2:45.
I was ski touring yesterday with some Scandi mates, all who have grown up Nordic, and they all practice Classic at quite an elite level, as they love the science involved at that level, wax, skis etc and we were nagging about Klæbo and how he just plays with the field until the last 800m when he then lets rip.
Evidently there's an uphill running technque for training that is meant to be a great way to strengthen your knees which I'm going to be shown!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Origen wrote: |
| @sherman-maeir, thanks so much for that! It makes me feel better about not getting very good at all at classic XC after three weeks of lessons over 2 years, with practice in between! I recognise what you are talking about. "C'est un sport de glisse, ne marchez pas!" one instructor was wont to shout! If you're just going to shuffle around, better to do a walk on snow-shoes, which are much less likely to make you fall over. And will generally give more scope and choice of routes. |
and snow shoeing is an excellent way to get into nature in the mountains and works on different levels. Trails directly within resort, marked trails out into the backcountry even to a refuge and completely "off piste" tackling some easier ski touring routes with hut to hut trips possible - and less worries about lack of snow like the crossing of the Jura which has been a bit bare in places.
Another alternative, mentioned in the title, is nordic skiing with metal edges skis. You'll be on similar terrain to snowshoers but have "le plaisir de la glisse" as your instructor might have said. Turns can vary from snowplough to telemark. Tricky to handle in difficult snow though as they are lightweight but no fixing and removing skins in gentle rolling terrain unless.
@Scooter in Seattle, be my guest to republish if you want
I agree about prices but that can be a bit elastic. In the Alps at the moment and we have a "cramped" 1 room apartment which sleeps 3 for 40 euros a night on AirBnB... I got a free lift pass as an instructor but I think it is 9 euros per day. We're skate skiing before noon and classic in the PM as was mentioned by Weathercam above (well ok some are sleeping). As for instruction prices, Guy Beaumont teaches in the Haute-Savoie and charges 110 € for 2 people for two hours. Always good to be more than one if possible I think. I don't know how that stacks up in Serre Chevalier? I'd be interested to see some figures.
I don't have a carte pro so can only teach club groups in France that I travel with but here is Guy's website:
https://www.gbnordique.fr/letsski/courses-and-prices/
The UK clubs organize trip abroad as well a rollerski training at home: https://londonnordic.org.uk/
Again I'll mention that in my club we start the kids on rollerblades to about 12 years old as they are more accessible and you can wear wrist protection.
As said above Norwegian season is still full on although you need to go north at the moment.
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FAQ
(nor did I add further noise by pointing such behavior out)
