 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I'm wondering about a nordic skiing/cross-country ski holiday (I've done it many years ago in Scotland, but decades ago) - so I just wondered if anyone had any useful links to places to look, or recommended companies, organisations etc ...??
Thanks
Roland
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rolandorolando, why do you need a tour op?
Would you be driving out, eg France?
Unless you were interested in skating then an instructor is not really necessary and where I'm located for instance there are a number of first class XC areas, and shops to rent.
And, I am a regular practitioner, though this morning was a good example of why for purists the season is coming to a close, that's if you don't like getting up early, though Classic is ok.
It's all about the "glide" 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I disagree with Weathercam, I would advise anyone to have some lessons at the start. Yes you can plod around and try and learn to glide yourself on classic skis but there are many techniques like one foot kicks and coming out of the traces at speed that take a bit of learning and a good instructor really does help. I learnt with ESF Morzine about 25 years ago in a weeks group lesson. great fun and educational. I have never been on an organised group holiday but having spoken to other people who have they said for the touring type holiday much better to have got the basics sorted out first. Though i am sure you could probably find learning type courses. Good luck.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Unless you were interested in skating then an instructor is not really necessary
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I disagree. Sure, you can shuffle round a pretty flat valley-based track without any great skill just as lots of people teach themselves downhill skiing, or are taught by their mates, and spend the time wrenching themselves down in a series of zig zags. I had several weeks of instruction in classic XC skiing during the years we spent in Les Saisies, and learnt a lot, though I remained a beginner, regularly overtaken by lithe old people in Lycra hopping out of the tracks and overtaking me at speed. The exercises on one ski were particularly useful and challenging, though on an easy blue slope on my downhill skis I could turn both ways without any problem on my left leg alone (much shakier on my right - most of us have better balance on one leg than the other).
That doesn't mean you need a "tour operator" of course though having some companions to learn and ski with might be enjoyable.
I'm not there now but I'm sure the XC skiing is not "coming to a close" in Les Saisies, even for skating, where the XC tracks, of all degrees of difficulty, lie between 1600 and 1750 metres, and don't snake around the valley floor as they do in many places. . Les Saisies - just a small downhill resort - is one of the premier XC resorts in France.
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As someone who tried Nordic for the first time last week, I totally disagree with the lesson being unnecessary. My first day was a lesson, very valuable. Second day I flopped around on my own, as the instructor said I should. I did so, rather unsuccessfully, but at least I knew what I was trying to accomplish.
I do think such a holiday could easily be self-arranged.
(Those things could benefit from some metal edges!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There's more than enough great YouTube videos out there for cross country skiing, for sure a couple of basic lessons will help, but it really doesn't take that long to synchronise your heel lift and glide for classic, which I did for two years to a reasonable level before I migrated to skating.
The competition season is now over and that's down to the inevitable thaw on valley flats, and will now get progressively worse as the sun gets higher hence if skating in order to maximise the glide you need to be back by 11:00 at the latest, and I see most, as they are on holiday just starting at 10:30, but if you look at the parking like today most locals have been and gone.
The rails used in classic are not so critical when it comes to fresh and or thawing snow, but the glide factor is still going to be greatly compromised, however for many it's not about the glide and they are just happy to walk/shuffle/plid in the tracks.
My neighbour and friend is an ESF instructor and is still working every day, and this morning she was teaching a couple skating but we both agreed conditions were tough, though for her pupils they didn't realise that, they probably thought it was their lack of technique and there's the crux when it comes to suitable conditions, and as things get warmer conditions get more critical.
Put that into context of pace/speed, this morning I was nigh on 12 mins off my usual time for the 10km route and yet my HR average was the same at 148bpm for an hour, so still beasting myself and getting no where fast.
Interesting enough whilst typing this a FB message just came up from my local crew that run the sector here....
Good evening to all you impetuous spatula followers...
After those few flakes... It sticks! So we're redoing all our tracks tonight and tomorrow it'll stick a little less.
A beautiful end to the day to you!
They give regular updates on the damage, always with a little humour.s
Such as this....
 FINAL DAMAGE: 14/03/2026 evening
ALERT the return of white!!!
Ah, the cold, here's an ally to find beautiful tracks again!
Yesterday's few inches of fresh snow brought back a pep's kick and today we're "colder" snow than previous days!
Conditions are good in Classic and Skating, well it may "stick" a bit over the hours but that's ok in March training is here to counter that!
Everything was redone last night, the estate is fully open!
A little wind in the north will keep our snout cool during the day!
Nice slide
OPEN TRACKS (36.2km)
This is the last weekend for the Izoard sector which starts at 1750 and goes to the actual Col and that's not down to the Spring weather but the costs of pisting that sector for a minimal number of people able to practice there.
I still don't think I could manage it!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
the inevitable thaw on valley flats
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yes, "valley flats" are obviously far from ideal.
I was learning XC around the same time as I was learning to snowboard, in my late 50s - never got past the "beginner" stage in either (could turn carefully down blue runs on the snowboard). But I found snowboard easier, with those damn big metal edges!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As someone who shuffles once a year lessons are a must, there is a skill to it which makes life a lot easier!
Don’t need a tour operator though, go to resort, buy ticket, book lessons. There’s a lovely XC area up past Peisey, home of France’s numero uno Eric Perriot, variety of tracks to choose from.
Boy likes it there as well, plus a great restaurant
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I don't know much about package holidays, I'm afraid. Headwater do trips with instruction, accommodation etc.
If you are self organising, it's very doable - it's how we started. Book a flat on Airbnb or a hotel just like any other holiday. A car can be very useful in some places, but you can get by without in others.
Good areas for beginners/improvers include Vercors (snow not always reliable but superb when it is), Nevache and Queyras in France. Norway is of course amazing and snow sure and prices are not too scary atm thanks to the exchange rate the last few years. Gala is basically a hotel and cabins in a wood and is good with lots of sheltered runs in the trees. I have heard good things about Venebu and Sjusjøen. They are all about three hours drive from Oslo airport. We came back from Gelio today - also good and there is a direct train from the airport and decent public transport around the valley. It's also a downhill resort so useful chairlifts to get you up high (cheating I know), and a spa and supermarkets. Also marvellous cabins in the middle of the mountains with hot drinks and waffles. With Norway do check that the piste map marks grades (green, blue etc) so you don't end up on something tricky too soon. Norwegians are famously born with skis on their feet and don't always understand this.
From personal experience and seeing others, I strongly recommend at least a couple of lessons. The more the better I suspect, but we only had two classic lessons. There is a "knack" you need to pick up. Skating is supposedly trickier to learn.
DM me if you need any more detail.
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You know it makes sense.
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If I was doing a XC holiday on my own I'd quite like the idea of a group which combined some lessons with some trips led by somebody who knew the area - and knew the group. When I had my lessons I was jolly glad of being told where I would need to keep speed down, going down a straight (i.e demi chasse-neige) because it got a lot steeper just down round the bend! It would be good to have some company. I would never have dared tackle some of the "black" circuits on my own - but being told where I'd have to take my skis off and walk made it possible and saved some falls! That doesn't need a "tour operator", of course.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
It's also a downhill resort so useful chairlifts to get you up high (cheating I know)
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In Saisies we sometimes used a draglift, once we had the basics, to get up towards the top of the domain. It was on a blue run - easy enough for all but beginner downhill skiers but would have been impossible on XC skis for any of us. The instructor implored us not to fall off and told us to dismount at a half way point with a sign "pour les fondeurs". I'd done that lift lots of times on downhill skis. We were all nervous but nobody fell off and it saved quite a lot of huffing and puffing. It was particularly difficult for one woman in the group who'd not done any downhill and never been on a drag lift, but she managed. I enjoyed the groups I did - everybody else was French and so it served as a French lesson too. One woman on the second week I did had been demoted from a skating group because she was nowhere near the level required. Skating is much more challenging in terms of technique and fitness but it does look wonderful when done well. French XC athletes sometimes trained in Les Saisies and were a joy to watch.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks everyone - that's alot more than I expected!
I'm a downhiller just cross-country curious. I like lessons and being taught, and knowing nothing about the current equipment some operator would be helpful.
I wonder - if there's anywhere one can try it in the UK for a couple of hours ? E.g. on a dry ski slope or in a snow centre? That might be an idea.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Origen,
Good points. We had a friend in our group in Norway who would not take lessons, we did not ski with her one day and a Scandi friend took her down too steep a slope (which was marked "difficult" mind) and she completely tore her ACL. In mainland Europe and in Geilo, they grade the pistes, but some places in Norway don't. Some Scandi's just don't get the concept of an adult beginner XC skier.
For the OP, if they have the budget, and especially if they would otherwise be going solo, an organised holiday has a lot to recommend it. It might depend on how much XC (or downhill) experience they have. TBF Mr Badpanda and I are generally complete klutzes, with no DH experience to speak of, and we managed just fine, but we paid careful attention to piste grades at first and Mr BP in particular, walked down a fair few descents.
Indeed - with chairlifts, to avoid embarrassment, check that either there is an appropriate route down or that they will let you downlift after your nice easy trip around the plateau!
BTW - the season is very much still going in Norway. Easter is the traditional high season for them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rolandorolando, for XC in UK you need to loo at roller skis, is the same technique. As you’re going n London, looking at location, there is a London Nordic Ski Club who meet most weekends and practice on cycle tracks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What the roller ski bunch that inhabit Hyde Park? An organised club or just an ad hoc collective?
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@rolandorolando, Praz de Lys ski area has a great mix of downhill piste & extensive Cross Country facilities "concentric" with each other and the village centre.
Up on a sunny plateau, with equipment and tuition available conveniently. Would make an ideal place to find out more, experience both and find out to greater degree if you take to it or like it.
Also, its good cost, great food provision and extremely relaxed area to visit.
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@ster, believe they’re an organised club, boy raced with them a few times.
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I don’t even understand why people use tour packages for downhill skiing holidays. So I’m afraid I’m at a lose to nordic ski holiday packages. For one thing, there’re far fewer people nordic skiing, any tour operators will struggle to get enough groups to make a profit.
To organize it, you need to choose a location that has sufficient size trail networks. Not that a beginner covers much distance at first. But places with large trail network will have a well setup schools and equipment rental, with lodging altogether. Some of those places will have all inclusive packages. You just need to get yourself there. And if you take daily lessons, you WILL be traveling for some distance by the end of the week!
Seefield in Austria is pretty famous as a nordic destination. St Moritz in Switzerland is another.
I’ve only been to St Moritz. The trail network is in the valley. Despite the high elevation of the valley itself, the nordic season is done by end of March.
If you’re planning a late season nordic holiday, head to the Nordic countries. Norway is well known for that. My club-mates typically go to Norway in March and April.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This morning was vastly different to yesterday and the FB update is quite interesting, demonstrating just how conditions, in both disciplines, are affected by the temps, and it's this time of year that they are so fallible.
Bonjour,
le soleil est de retour !
Tout le site a été redamé hier soir, encore merci aux dameurs car sans eux clairement pas de ski possible !!!
Aujourd'hui les conditions vont être correctes..
Hier la neige récente s'est bien humidifiée ce qui a d'ailleurs rendu le ski particulièrement collant dès la fin de matinée, bravo aux skieurs motivés !
Cette nuit le regel a été bon, résultat ce matin ça glisse !!!!! Voir ça glisse vraiment beaucoup, la surface de la neige s'est vitrifiée résultat il faut être à l'aise sinon "bambi" !
En classique, l'accroche est précaire pour le moment...
Cela dit les conditions vont vite changer au fil des heures avec l'action du soleil, le vent du nord est de la partie la neige risque de rester glissante longtemps...
Bonne glisse
Hello,
the sun is back!
The entire resort was groomed last night, thanks again to the groomers because without them, skiing would be impossible!!!
Today the conditions will be decent.
Yesterday, the fresh snow got quite wet, which made the skis particularly sticky from late morning onwards. Well done to the dedicated skiers!
The overnight freeze was good, so this morning it's really slippery! It's incredibly slippery; the snow surface has become icy, so you need to be comfortable on the slopes, otherwise you'll be in trouble!
For classic skiing, the grip is precarious at the moment...
That said, the conditions will change quickly throughout the day with the sun's influence. The north wind is blowing, so the snow is likely to remain slippery for a long time...
Happy skiing!
And this morning I opted to chase the cold snow on a classic off-piste itinerery, and you could not have dreamt up two such different sorties, at least today I had a big wide smile on my face 
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@rolandorolando, My tuppence worth on lessons. I teach Alpine, Telemark and XC, (Classic and Skate} and you are probably firmly in my usual demographic. Learning to ski classic is not difficult but depending on your ability (or more likely, athleticism) it is important that you are taught the basics with someone who can help you move from the "Shuffle" to the "Glide". That's kind of lesson 1. Downhill, braking and how to step in and out of the tracks is really lesson 2. In a resort, that's likely to be two morning sessions. After that, do as you please but I stick by my earlier recommendation of Nordic Blowfish.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, Great, thanks v much.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
| .....it is important that you are taught the basics with someone who can help you move from the "Shuffle" to the "Glide". That's kind of lesson 1. Downhill, braking and how to step in and out of the tracks is really lesson 2..... |
But that takes all the fun out of it, much better to just let your hard core Alpine mates sort it out for themselves
Still surprised you don't see beginners having to wear helmets?
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@Weathercam, I make them keep the speed down, which isn't normally a problem. Remember, it isn't how fast your going that hurts, it's what you hit.
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You know it makes sense.
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I’m fascinated by all the arguments regarding lessons or the lack of. Seems people feel strongly how they learn MUST apply to everyone else. 
Of the activities I do a lot of, some I took lots of lessons, others almost none at all. Somethings just come naturally for me. So I don’t bother with lessons. Skiing isn’t one of those. So I ended up taking quite a few lessons to get to where I am. As a loose correlation, the ones I took a lot of lessons, I end up doing more than the ones I didn’t take a lot of lessons on. But there’s no correlation on how good I’m at the activities with lessons.
Most surprising at all, I didn’t have a degree in the subject I made my career out of! And it’s the biggest of my “hobby” which I enjoy enormously. Lucky me.
So I will never insist someone to take a lesson, or against. It really depends on how much people feel they want out of the activities. While some may want to just shuffle along, others wanted to get a lot of glides, or climb mountains! As those who had done it a lot, we can share what lesson do for us. But it’s no guarantee the same applies to others. It’s up to them to decide whether they want lesson or not.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rolandorolando wrote: |
Hi,
I'm wondering about a nordic skiing/cross-country ski holiday (I've done it many years ago in Scotland, but decades ago) - so I just wondered if anyone had any useful links to places to look, or recommended companies, organisations etc ...??
Thanks
Roland |
simple. Do Skating (i find the other silly and boring) , book flights for Innsbruck, go to Seefeld, book an Instructor learn and enjoy.
After a few rounds, make a pause go to woods Kitchen & Bar, eat something then repeat.
When you are ready for the day, again to woods and drink a few spritz aperols
Then go to Olympiabad and enjoy again
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Poster: A snowHead
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@turms2, not a bad recommendation (though my old hips won't let me do skate, so I have to make do with classic). Next day, get a bus to Leutasch and ski to Gasthaus Klammgeist for a big lunch, and wobble back to Leutasch.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@dobby, a Leutasch...another really good suggestion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I like both classic and skating. I know some trails where only classic is allowed, and tbh classic is quite easy as others have said so i would even mix it up a bit during a week and do both.
In my valley there is a small place, like 16kms of trails, and rent/instructors are usually available. I imagine it is similar in other places. I would pick somewhere with a decent amount of trails (engadin, dobbiaco/san candido, even livigno/santa caterina are places i know that fit that) and just book a place to stay.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dobby wrote: |
| @turms2, not a bad recommendation |
Second (or third?  )
For alpine skiers of decent skill, learning to skate isn’t as hard as it seems. You get huge amount of glide, which is what makes nordic skiing fun.
It’s more demanding on fitness level though. (I’m really suffering on that front)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@abc, to be fair to @turms2, Leutasch and Seefeld could be considered to be part of the Seefeld area... 
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@Weathercam, I think you remembered wrong. I think you might have misremember me as someone else.
You started on skating before I did. (I only started skating in 2019) I wouldn’t have had much to say in 2017 when you were “moving on from classic”.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 17-03-26 18:56; edited 4 times in total
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Having done skating for a few seasons now, I don’t feel classic helps much for skating. I felt downhill skiing transfer more to skating than classic does.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I don’t feel classic helps much for skating
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I've only done classic, but I can't imagine it does help much for skating. though somebody who found it hard to learn classic (especially step turns) would, I'm sure, struggle mightily with skating. I certainly would have done, though I was also a bit old to start down that road. I would think the best preparatory sport for XC skating would be ice skating - which is also a great basis for learning to downhill ski.
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I tried classic as thought it would be better for my knee and my running would be more transferable. Hated it with a passion and find skate easier and more natural.
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