 Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I note former sH Paul Hothersall is high up on the leaderboard only 1 pt behind some guy called Ted Ligety. |
More impressive is the fact that his 175 was in Parallel, which no one has a clue what it's measuring or how to get a high score in it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| doddsie wrote: |
But that's not the point of CARV, you use it to see your metrics and what you can improve on the slopes and conditions that you are skiing.
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But that's why I'd suggest it's not a great tool for skimottaret to preassign classes. The absolute score is a measure of the environment in which you've been skiing and those who've deliberately been seeking out Carv benign conditions should be scoring higher than people "just skiing around" for the same ability level.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Which is why he is now asking for an average daily range of scores, as he's also worked that out.
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| doddsie wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I note former sH Paul Hothersall is high up on the leaderboard only 1 pt behind some guy called Ted Ligety. |
More impressive is the fact that his 175 was in Parallel, which no one has a clue what it's measuring or how to get a high score in it. |
As a ski coach at Whistler it probably measures blasting down closed pistes before the athletes get on it or pre mountain opening.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My daily scores for last week ranged from 133-138, with 138 on the second day of six. However, if I look at the individual scores per segment or run, I'd say there are generally in the 125-130 range and correlate strongly to given snow conditions on the run.
My turn shape, turn closing and GeForce scores often lag behind the other metrics, but Short turns are typically what I score best in. I'm riding 188cm Armada ARV 106's, not necessarily the best for trying to carve on busy European pistes and have turn radius of 22m
Top score this season was from Jan at 139 (only skied 12 days so far this season)
Last year I peaked at 140 but managed to get around 35-40 days of skiing in. General trajectory is upwards trending daily average though which is positive I guess...
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Is there a Season Average IQ score available or just Best? |
Best score per “style” but also you can see best score per day. Styles bring parallel, shorts, longs, moguls & powder
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| skimottaret wrote: |
Im just learning about all this and misunderstood the Ski:IQ. In my head I thought it was an average like a golf handicap but sounds like you have a lucky dip all time best 8-10 turns AND a typical daily average score.
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You need to get skiing with it, It’s certainly not a lucky dip, to score highly you need good technique, good snow, good terrain and not many people around you. You certainly won’t get high scores “just” skiing casually.
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Excuse long, rambling post, but this got me thinking.
I'm a top score of 151 this season, and put myself as a solid 10 on the Inside Out scale, possibly an 11, but not consistently - i can be lazy and slightly backseat when skiing off-piste and have to actively tell myself to get centred, rather than it being automatic. Similarly, steep , icy moguls can give me trouble and require some very conscious thinking about my technique. Most of the time, I am putting effort in but not actively thinking about my skiing, if that makes any sense? I find skiing a great way to be very calm and chilled.
Daily skiing on anything I am actually trying on (rather than traversing/going down backwards with kids/skiing on one ski for giggles) seems to be 143-150, at least looking at the app just now. But I do actually put effort in when skiing, so I hope runs would be near my high scores.
Moguls high run score is 149, powder 150, carving 151, short turns 147, but parallel just 135. I need to work out why this is. But it seems to get measured on those in-between lazy skiing bits when I am not on my edges,or not doing short turns...
Also the new app allows you to look at individual turns in a measured segment, so whilst i am a 151 overall carving score, highest carving score on a single turn was 156. My highest mogul score is a 161. But I am not yet consistently at these scores in every measured run to warrant a higher ski IQ overall. But most of you will actually, at your best, be better than your overall ski IQ. Which is nice, and seeing it in the app is encouraging, I find.
Ski choice is interesting to me as I ski several pairs of skis consistently, sometimes two or three pairs in a day! Best carving score is on FIS SL skis (Atomic Redster S9), but off-piste highest scores were on my park skis (Line Chronic 101), not my big off-piste machines. I guess I had to ski them a bit more consciously to stay upright? Best mogul score was on the Atomic SLs, last week, which makes no sense as i should be getting better scores on the Chronics.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| doddsie wrote: |
Also the top male and female scores for moguls both won medals at the Olympics, so they seem to have that metric fairly accurate. |
You would absolutely expect that i.e. that they would calibrate their model off such people. Did they set their scores on perfect formation seeded moguls by any chance i.e. the sort we never encounter in the real world?
Do people get their personal high scores in moguls by picking the shallowest bump pitch they can and pumping through a bunch of high tempo turns? Or do they get them for dealing with gnarly as feck off camber nightmares with stumps and dirt patches in reasonable style? |
This is interesting, as I have only ever tried for carving scores and used coaching mode:edge angle. All my other scores (bumps, powder) came just from skiing and having the system in.
I have looked at my metrics, and apparently I am not finishing my turns. I am totally going to try this "fish-hooking" of turns now and try to game my carving score! Coaching mode:linking turns will be the way, I am guessing?
3V on Sunday. Game on.
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@Drifter210, Thanks, would you hazard a guess as to what you would put yourself down as on our levels guide ?
@kitenski, I just opened the box up yesterday and going out Sat for the last few weeks of the season and will play around with Carv. Wanted to get my head in the game and understand what all the scores and metrics mean before getting annoyed and binning em  Not taking anything away from someone getting a great score on their best 8 turns of the season on hero snow with sharp SL skis but that figure wasnt initially what I thought the IQ was.
TBH it is all a bit confusing from the website and app with Ski:IQ giving Season Best & Daily Best , a Daily Best Turn:IQ for carving, shorts, moguls etc.
the IQ seems to be scored 1-200 on a bell curve, then they have numerous Skills "pathways" scored 1-30 and finally Skills Metrics like edge angle given out as a percentage
@harry we start a course on Sun in Meribel perhaps see you on the hill after work in the afternoons. Be interested to pick your brains on Carv... hit me up at scott@insideoutskiing.com
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@skimottaret, I'd say 9 and a hopeful 10 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Drifter210, 9.5 then
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@skimottaret, good to know!
I'm on a guided/instructed corporate trip so may not be able to get away much, but will e-mail you if I can as would be lovely to put a face to the name, whilst we are both on skis.
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You know it makes sense.
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@skimottaret, yes a bit confusing without using it I’d agree. You can game it and hire sl kit but I’m using it to try and improve. Skiiq maybe not that useful but the metrics ie % of turn carved are something you can’t game and very helpful to me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@kitenski, yeah defo looks like focussing on the Metrics coupled with video review is the way to go for coaching or personal improvement.
the IQ score is an interesting aside and might be fun to look at beginning of week and end of week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I am an 8 on your scale.
Carv bests are 132 carving, 128 short turns and 118 moguls.
I use Carvs with a bluetooth headset. I like the training mode where it sounds in your ear after each turn and the sound varies according to how good the turn was. I usually pick a turn facet that is bad compared to the rest (e.g. unweighting on turn transition) and train that one until it improves. The spoken tips are tailored to the thing you are trying to improve.
Beware that the tool will metaphorically beat you up on a bad day. Just turn it off on such days! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just dropped into this thread.
I was an early-ish adopter of Carv and think I reached circa 140'ish* without too much concentrated practice, starting out from 120'ish, but I became bored, not with Carv I hasten to add, but piste skiing and having to do the necessary time in order to achieve better scores, however I'd then see my overall fitness numbers plummet as I was not cross country skiing/ ski touring etc
And then today after dealing with some technical skiing, I looked at this and the various levels etc
So my two ¢ is that to ski technical snow, as in crust to more or less the same style/standard as skiing well off-Piste is actually the true Barometer of a competent skier, as skiing today with some Swedes who skied the crust the same as the fresh, whereas I was a tad not up to speed
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kditrj2d, thanks any thoughts as to your typical carving and shorts scores day to day ? 120's? 110's?
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Sounds like it is increasingly doing what it was intended to do which is to get you thinking about your technique and putting in a bi of effort to improve it. As above, we are all varied day to day but skills are generally creeping upwards.
If people want to game it to squeeze the last couple of points to briefly get a higher score than someone else, up to them.
How much are these costing now, is there a subscription?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Orange200, cost of the units isn't too expensive, the cost comes from the subscription. €249 for a season and the units are free or €119 for a 6 day pass and again the units are free. If you have an instructor qualification you get 60% off the subscription.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Orange200, you buy direct from Carv where a year's subscription is £200 with free units thrown in, They do have pre-season sales with 20% off, and the snowhead @PisteOffice is a Carv ambassador and who offer the same deal all year round if you get in touch
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I was told a tale last season, by someone who was on a 'Carv camp' in which all students were prior Carv users and the instruction was focussed around the unit.
One member of the group, who arrived with one of the highest Carv scores, had never before had 'human' instruction and had learnt entirely from the Carv guidance.
Despite his score though, apparently he was totally rubbish at skiing and as he was taught to ski properly through the week, his Carv score dropped significantly.
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| admin wrote: |
I was told a tale last season, by someone who was on a 'Carv camp' in which all students were prior Carv users and the instruction was focussed around the unit.
One member of the group, who arrived with one of the highest Carv scores, had never before had 'human' instruction and had learnt entirely from the Carv guidance.
Despite his score though, apparently he was totally rubbish at skiing and as he was taught to ski properly through the week, his Carv score dropped significantly. |
At a lower/mid level, I could see how you can game it a bit. However, this year with the new algorithm where good scores come from skiing more difficult terrain, it would be harder to score well.
That said, and if I had a euro for every time I've said this.... CARV can't replace an instructor, and a lot of people don't realise that when they first purchase it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
@kitenski, yeah defo looks like focussing on the Metrics coupled with video review is the way to go for coaching or personal improvement.
the IQ score is an interesting aside and might be fun to look at beginning of week and end of week. |
For me - first day of Season Opener Week - 125, last day 124! But to be fair by the end I was fighting against a nasty cold and the cold was winning.
Scores for the days in between were all lower, but I think that's partly down to time spent on different drills etc. I felt my skiing was better at the end of the week but I don't think anyone could get a great Carv score doing Stork turns.
Neil
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| @kditrj2d, thanks any thoughts as to your typical carving and shorts scores day to day ? 120's? 110's? |
Normally within ten of the top value is the piste is reasonable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thanks @kditrj2d,
I have updated our Levels Guide to add in typical Carv scores. Hopefully its pretty close and not too far off. I was surprised how closely the Carv scores correlate to our levels...
If anyone has anymore data especially at our L8 (early advanced) level of skier I would like to fine tune this
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Valkyrie, Im gonna be teaching two Carv users next week and will be interested to see how scores go... I can see why they do Daily scores and Season Best as an ongoing score will get messed up when doing drills , larking about with kids etc..
I think a way around that is to do set "exam" runs using the same piste beginning and end of week and review the score directly after.. Sounds like you can review individual runs.
I would like to check out how much scores go down when the dreaded Video camera comes out so will defo be asking for scores on taped runs and practice runs on the same pitch 
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@skimottaret, the other big variable of course is the snow. Day 1 of opening week was hero snow everywhere, end of week a mixture of sugar and very hard packed.
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You know it makes sense.
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@skimottaret, For me I think your Level 11 Expert needs a CARV score of 150+. I can send you a video of a friend at the CARV 145-149 level, and I think you'd agree it's probably not passing a L3 longs. If you want that PM me your number and I'll fire it over via WhatsApp.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skimottaret, Not sure this will help you, but below is the detail of a day at half-term, so busy, with soft fresh snow conditions that became quite bumpy. I went out on my own for a couple of hours and was trying to ski well, these are all the recorded scores for the day. I am probably a 9 on your scale, but only just.
Carving - 128, 135, 131, 125, 133, 119, 128, 125 , 127, 119, 124, 127, 128, 125, 135, 137, 143, 138, 124, 129
Parallel - 129, 101, 93, 115,
Short turns - 120, 117, 118, 131, 129, 131, 124, 131,
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sgl, sorry I missed your post, thanks..
@swskier Looks like those with higher the top scores seem to have more consistent daily scores closer to their max. Which seems intuitively right to me that they would be more precise on piste and probably skiing closer to their limit.... will do on whattapp and if you have any thoughts on your typical daily scores please add to msg
Might have to edge up the upper ends a bit and squeeze down the ranges
@doddsie, actually does help as a rough std dev and avg...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@skimottaret, sent you a WhatsApp message.
My daily scores tend to always be 150+ probably a 50/50 split of 150-154 vs 155-159.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| swskier wrote: |
| @skimottaret, I'd say 145 is too low for a L3/4. My score is 160 and as you know i'm L3, and attempting the L4 tech in a week and half. I think 150+ for you IOS level 11. |
I'm at 147 and I don't ski to L3 level* so I'd agree.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thanks have updated OP
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not a good skier, but improving. Started out as a level 6 when I moved to the dolomites, now probably a level 9 (time on snow does really help). CARV top score last year was 146 but got dropped to 142, this year 142 carving, 140 parallel, 138 short turns, 130 moguls. Blues 135 best, reds 139, black 142.
Hitting a bit of a plateau that time on snow (30-40 days per season) and some lessons can't break, but I'm happy. Difference between slalom / carve ski's (stockli SL fis or volkl deacon 72 masters) or my very wide fischer ranger 102s is not that big in carv iq (135 max on the fat ski's). Typically without trying I'll range in the 130-135 range per day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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That may have been me telling the tale. What’s interesting is that this season’s update significantly downgraded many users’ SkiIQs. And from what I’ve seen it was often skiers who’d majored purely on their Carv metrics who suffered more than the well rounded skiers.
So should note that past comments and criticisms of the algorithm may become obsolete to some degree.
Have to say I’ve been impressed with the rate of ongoing algorithm and app development over the years. In particular after they moved to the subscription model.
| admin wrote: |
I was told a tale last season, by someone who was on a 'Carv camp' in which all students were prior Carv users and the instruction was focussed around the unit.
One member of the group, who arrived with one of the highest Carv scores, had never before had 'human' instruction and had learnt entirely from the Carv guidance.
Despite his score though, apparently he was totally rubbish at skiing and as he was taught to ski properly through the week, his Carv score dropped significantly. |
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I messed around a bit with the Levels and scores after getting some more info from skiers outside of SH's.
Do the up dated scores make sense / feel right?
I dont have enough info from those at L8 to feel confident about that one. Any Early Advanced Carv users out there jump in
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I'd put myself as L8 edging into L9 and I'd say the Carv scores are about right- my best is 135 and my scores are between 121 and 133 routinely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Meant to say I have absolutely no confidence I could pass an instructor exam though; I'd consider myself a world away from instructor level skiing, but otherwise all the description at level "8.5" and the related Carv scores are spot on for me.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, interesting, what would you say is your IOS ski level ? |
Looking at your updated ski levels, I'm a fairly comfortable level 10, looking at level 11, I don't really have the sensitivity to judge much between ski types, I know that I like a sub 16m turn radius and a short ski that is super quick to turn. I don't care if it's unstable at speed, not that I go slower, I just keep my buttocks clenched
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FAQ
