 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My advice is to forget about "Run Colours" and the need to upgrade to Red and Black. It is not the thing to make any sort of priority, as the difficulty changes from country to country and even resort to resort....as well as weather and snow conditions.
It is always worth working on the fundamentals on easy terrain, with a good instructor (and then one can up the ante when the fundamentals start becoming ingrained)....which includes in snowdomes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@iamjibbz, I think you will get split opinions on this.
I did a few a dry slope lessons before I went the first time. Largely a waste of time, other than having planks on my fit wasn't completely alien. I learnt super quick doing two weeks of morning lessons on a real mountain/snow.
I went a couple of times to Hemel when it was still dry and to the fridge at Tamworth (mainly to try out my new gear). These weren't with any instruction though. It was fun to a point.
After that I binned it. And I've never even been to the fridge in MK even though I live close by.
However, people have posted on here about doing tuition there and getting good improvement out of it. Cost/budget and how much time you get on a real mountain plus what floats your boat are all factors.
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Agree with OF to not overthink the run grading - it's for a bit of guidance only.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just a bug bear of mine, you'll not be carving reds and blacks on your third trip! Using your edges to help with grip and control, yes, but that's not carving!
Anyway, I don't see any harm in having lessons at The Snowcentre, however don't expect miracles from a 2hr lesson. You'll improve, but that shouldn't be the end of your lessons.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Agree with OF to not overthink the run grading - it's for a bit of guidance only. |
.....and comparative within a particular resort, given its natural topography. It can also have a degree of marketing, as in...we need to have a Blue run into the resort, so that's what we will label it....Santons in VDI comes to mind, before it was upgraded to Red.
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2 hr lessons to “carving on reds”? Never mind blacks. Forget about it!
Recipe for disappointment.
Unless you’re exceptionally talented, no way.
But that 2 hr lesson may allow you to get down reds with some control. That’s the best you can do.
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@iamjibbz, oh and you mention "carving". Search the board - a couple of long threads on the subject on SH's.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I’ve never skied a dome so can’t comment on how that will help specifically but as others have said just forget the colours and grades of slopes just learn to ski. The best place to learn to hone and improve your technique is on a slope you feel comfortable to let your skis run on without fear.
I can get down anything but don’t enjoy everything and seldom search out black runs just for fun but I have enjoyed getting to a point where I can if I need to either to get from A to B or not get split from a group of better skiers.
Learn to carve on a generic easy blue, you’ll feel the difference when you’ve mastered doing it rather than sliding then you can start challenging yourself on steeper terrain. Enjoy the journey rather than focussing on a distant end goal at this point is my opinion and advice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@iamjibbz, Don't waste your money. Pop up to Le Tour in Chamonix and have a proper lesson.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@iamjibbz, you could find slopes just as icy in France it'll totally depend on the weather when you're there to be honest. The weather and conditions can be so changeable!
Likewise you could also find much nicer conditions in Bulgaria depending on the week you're there!
I'm an instructor so I'd always recommend more lessons, I'd say at the very least one in Hemel would be worthwhile, and another in Chamonix too. If it's one or the other, go for chamonix
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Le tour would be a great place to progress your skiing in the chamonix valley. Some great slopes there and wonderful views! Enjoy 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
| I've heard its a lot more "snowy" up in the french alps compared to the the ice I experienced in Bulgaria |
Like@swskier says, France can get icy too - and we had excellent fresh snow conditions on our one trip to Bulgaria (Bansko).
Experience may well show you that what beginners (and Rockies skiers from across the pond) regard as 'ice' may well just be good old hardpacked snow, which is perfectly good for holding an edge/turning
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@iamjibbz, Black pistes tend to have big moguls (in France and IIRC Switzerland) carving is not an option on them.
Unlike @Layne, I found dry slope lessons very useful. I joined a ski club (Midland) and went every week for a 90 minute lesson. And started to do slalom races. You will learn many more skills than just carving. For a club near you visit the snowsport england (other nations are available) web site. However, expect to be beaten by 6 year olds
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnE wrote: |
| ..., I found dry slope lessons very useful.... went every week ... |
Me too. In fact most people I've met from the UK who ski well have spent significant practice time on UK plastic or indoors. It's just hard to improve much if you just do one week a year. But if you don't enjoy it, you won't keep it up, so there's that.
Any practice at all is a good thing, but 2 hours isn't going to make a massive difference.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| iamjibbz wrote: |
Quick question snowheads
Been skiing twice already (both times to bansko) but going alps this time to chamonix. Can confidently ski greens and blues but thinking of getting lessons in snowcentre (I think its in hemel hampsted) to improve parrallels and carving for reds (and possibly blacks?). Is it worth it ? and do you think a 2 hour intermediate lesson will get me up to speed ?
Thanks All  |
I think there are few issues here which might be usefully untangled. The first is expectations of what can be achieved in a single two-hour lesson, set against a relative lack of understanding of ski technique which is perfectly understandable for a skier with a couple of week's experience. I think another issue is how do you ensure you end up with a good instructor, to ensure you don't waste your time and money, as sadly there were too many instructors out there providing very poor quality instruction. As you mention The Snow Centre at Hemel Hempstead there's the related issues of whether that ski slope is suitable for providing good quality lessons, even for experienced skiers, and how best to ensure you end up with a good instructor who can meet your hopefully realistic expectations. As a disclaimer, I've taught at The Snow Centre for 15+ years as part of an independent ski school which operates there, see my signature for info.
I think a two-hour private lesson can be very helpful in addressing one or two specific issues in your skiing, perhaps focusing on core skills or a particular problem that the skier is experiencing. Some skiers will make quick progress in this session, others need more time to understand and make the changes they need to make. The issues that you focus on might well unlock a whole range of performance improvements and the skier makes a step change in their ability. Or the session might be part of a series of small incremental steps as the skier progresses to a high standard of skiing. This will depend on the skier as much as it depends on the instructor, although it's likely that a less experienced skier has the opportunity to make bigger improvements, whereas the more experienced skier is always chasing smaller, more difficult to achieve gains. In terms of the OP's expectations, as suggested above, it's not a realistic goal to think that a two-week skier can be taught to carve turns on red or black pistes in a single lesson. The vast majority of skiers will never ski cleanly linked carved turns on steep pistes, so having that as a goal of a single ski lesson will always end in unmet expectations. On the other hand, there's an opportunity in a two-hour lesson to see if there are any blocks or weaknesses in a skier's core skills which is holding them back from making controlled parallel turns, suggest some relevant drills which can be practiced outside of the lesson, explain ski technique and some of the key movement patterns which will help the skier improve their ability.
For me the most important question when thinking about ski lessons is the quality of the instructor. Regardless of whether it's a week of group lessons or a series of private lessons, a useless instructor is worse than pointless. It's a waste of valuable ski time, it's a waste of lots of money, it's a waste of opportunity to have fun across all the mountain. I've had my share of pointless lessons, mostly with ESF ski schools, which did nothing other than convince me that lessons were a waste of time and money. So I opted out, and spent a decade perfecting my bad habits, some of which I'm still trying to dial out of my skiing. But I've also had plenty of wonderful instructors, who had a 'great eye' for understanding what's happening in my skiing, a library of drills and focus points from which to select things which work for me, delivered in a fun and empathetic manner. The trick is finding instructors like that which make it worthwhile spending your time and money with them. I don't think this is an easy task, I've shadowed plenty of instructors over the years and there's not always a correlation between their qualification level & years of experience with the quality of the lesson they deliver. Perhaps the best approach if you are booking a private lesson is to ask around for a recommendation for a good instructor, wherever you happen to be skiing. For group lessons it can be a bit of luck whether you end up with someone inspirational or with someone just going through the motions. In my experience it is the smaller, independent ski schools which improve your chances of getting a good instructor, rather than the big 'national' ski schools like ESF.
As to whether you can have a 'proper lesson' using the slope at The Snow Centre, to develop your core skills; improve your understanding of how skiing works; get individual feedback on your current ski level, perhaps with video feedback; identify key focus points for improvement; learn a couple of new drills which you can take away and practice; etc, I'd say that you absolutely can, if you work with a good quality instructor. Obviously there are slope limitations compared to skiing in resort, but when you are looking to make changes to your core skills you are going to want to spend at least some of your time on relatively gentle terrain, which is what The Snow centre provides. I've coached skiers up to the second level of their ski instructor exams at The Snow Centre, so it's always possible to challenge and develop even experienced skiers on an indoor slope of that kind.
@iamjibbz, whether you think lessons, at The Snow Centre or elsewhere, is a worthwhile investment is entirely a subjective decision that only you can make. For my part I've always thought that the lessons I've had with great instructors have been enjoyable and well worth the investment.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Practicing, and good tuition is always going to make you better.
So 2 hours 1:1 with an instructor is going to help, whether it is in a dome or on the mountain. You'll get much more variety, longer runs etc on the mountain, but then in the dome you get much repetition, the drills can be very controlled, every moment is productive etc. So I'd absolutely say it will help. Whether it will get you to the stage where you can comfortably ski more challenging slopes depends on the speed of your own progression, but it will help. Anyone saying a lesson in a dome isn't a "proper lesson" sounds a bit snobbish to me!
Skiing in that closed environment can also allow you to focus more on your own technique rather than dealing with the variation of the mountain. It is always the same pitch, the same snow etc. you will very quickly get over any fear of how steep it is since you'll ski the same slope over and over. So that can help you focus more on your posture, your balance, your movements etc. and to be very aware of how your inputs change the outcomes. And in my experience getting to that self awareness stage really helps with your progression. To progress IMO you need a combination of instruction, and time practicing. And that practice time isn't aimlessly skiing or struggling down runs you can't ski properly but skiing in a very aware way, feeling what worked, what didn't and then trying to correct.
2 hours aimlessly skiing around a dome won't help much, and probably gets quite boring! But 2 hours of focus time to develop your skiing in a controlled environment can be very rewarding. And likewise, 2 hours aimlessly skiing around a ski resort probably won't improve your skiing much, but it's a lot more enjoyable than being inside!
The right answer is "do both". If it is an either or scenario then it depends on you. If you want to learn out in resort then do it, but if you're going with a group who won't also be taking lessons, and to get the lesson there is disruptive then go in a dome if you think you can get the most out of the time. I'd also say if it fits with your holiday, and you're not yet skiing parallel consistently, consider whether a week of ski school is actually the best option. Sure it won't be 1:1 tuition, but for a similar price of a few hours of 1:1 you can get a week of good instruction, and a group of people to learn with. And that might help you progress much faster than a single session with an instructor.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@bouquetin, all very sensible advice.
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Colours aren't the thing to aim for. A lot of the time, they're colour codes for marketing reasons.
Loads of instances of routes that should be red being blue so people think there's an easy way back into a bit of the resort (Santons in Val D, for example, used to be blue when it's clearly not).
Equally, weather and conditions play a massive part in how difficult something is. I went down Bozelet in La Plagne last year which is a pretty straightforward blue (done it plenty of times, never bothered me) but it was knee deep powder (in the best bits) and it was the hardest thing I've ever been on by a mile.
Time of day is the other thing. Go down a difficult red when it's really groomed and it's a different beast to 3pm when it's been skied to death and full of moguls.
The other thing is that lots of runs are graded for the worst bit of it. It might be a 2 mile red run but 1.8 miles of it is a gentle blue cruise (the other 0.2 might be a really difficult red though) If you can be controlled enough on the difficult bit then the rest of the run is pretty easy.
As others have said, focus on improving the basics. Lessons & practice anywhere to get the fundamentals better is always a good thing.
Don't stress about colours though.
One tip, if you're going somewhere new, YouTube some runs you might be interested in. The video will flatten the angle so beware of that but you'll get a feel for whether a run is wide, lots of steeper, narrow sections etc.
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@iamjibbz, what @rob@rar says is always good advice being a ski instructor himself.
But his warning about "useless" instructors isn't a lot of help, while he has the expertise to assess them that isn't much help if you are travelling to a place you've not visited before (Chamonix in your case) and need to find an instructor. Like everyone else you will go to ESF or one of the other big schools and ask to book "an instructor" giving them some indication of what you are looking for. After which it is pot luck.
In my experience though - as a learner - all instructors I've used have been OK though some definitely better. But I've also found that different instructors explain things in different ways, and by using different ones over the years I've benefited from the way some explanations have happened to click with me personally and helped me get over a technical problem. I've always got something useful from an instructor.
(One recommendation for instruction in Chamonix is BASS, British Alpine Ski School, though they do get pretty booked up. There may be other people here who can recommend others).
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| j b wrote: |
| But his warning about "useless" instructors isn't a lot of help, while he has the expertise to assess them that isn't much help if you are travelling to a place you've not visited before (Chamonix in your case) and need to find an instructor. Like everyone else you will go to ESF or one of the other big schools and ask to book "an instructor" giving them some indication of what you are looking for. After which it is pot luck. |
I'm going to have to disagree that my warning wasn't much help. When I was in my early 20s booking group lessons I had no idea that not all ski schools were the same, that not all ski instructors would provide the same level of instruction. I wasn't an educated buyer of their services, and if I had more of an idea I might have found an option which better matched what I was looking for earlier than I did. I'm not saying that it's always easy to find a great instructor, but with a bit of understanding you can improve the likelihood of that. One way is by asking for the exact kind of recommendation you gave regarding the choice of a ski school where the OP is heading to: Derek, Shona and Dee in BASS Chamonix would all be a good choice, and typical of what I've looked for: small ski school, native English, all experienced instructors who I know will make the effort to provide great ski lessons.
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