 Poster: A snowHead
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| tsgsh wrote: |
@valais2, interesting point about wider reducing vibration and a bit (OK, totally) off topic but...
I swapped a pair of 170cm K2 iKonic Tis (85mm) for 167 cm Rossi Hero Elite LT Tis (71mm) this year The Rossis are obviously a much more serious ski, and an out-and-out piste ski rather than an "all mountain" ski. However, the Rossis vibrate much less than the K2s turning at speed: the K2s are flappy by comparison. It's not an apples to apples comparison but it never occurred to me that width reduces vibration. |
IME. Width, in and of itself, doesn't reduce vibration......ski construction/design does.
My AM skis have no metal in their construction and a reasonably long front rocker (IIRC 320mm)....they vibrate more than my Dynastar SZ-12 at speed and on ice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| tsgsh wrote: |
@valais2, interesting point about wider reducing vibration and a bit (OK, totally) off topic but...
I swapped a pair of 170cm K2 iKonic Tis (85mm) for 167 cm Rossi Hero Elite LT Tis (71mm) this year The Rossis are obviously a much more serious ski, and an out-and-out piste ski rather than an "all mountain" ski. However, the Rossis vibrate much less than the K2s turning at speed: the K2s are flappy by comparison. It's not an apples to apples comparison but it never occurred to me that width reduces vibration. |
IME. Width, in and of itself, doesn't reduce vibration......ski construction/design does.
My AM skis have no metal in their construction and a reasonably long front rocker (IIRC 320mm)....they vibrate more than my Dynastar SZ-12 at speed and on ice. |
Thanks, that's what I thought: construction/design not width. The K2s have Titanal along the edges and a "moderate" rocker (not specified by K2), the Rossis have a full titanal layer, stiffer wood construction and a "slight" tip rocker. There's a host of other differences of course, and I am anything but an expert.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh dear I am sorry if I misled - I am now worried that my account was entirely subjective - I assumed that the dynamic was that the larger surface area meant that compaction occurred more slowly underneath the ski, meaning that the curve of energy dissipation was different due to the width - rather than the ski construction..I have sidewall skis in all sorts of widths and wider ones definitely 'land' more softly and feel more damped in almost all conditions...but...I can find NOTHING on this to help understand this assumption.
well if that's one notional pro, then this is a research base to cons....
Cons
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/346635722_The_Influence_of_Ski_Waist-Width_and_Fatigue_on_Knee-Joint_Stability_and_Skier%27s_Balance
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, well, my account was definitely entirely subjective and it might be that the two pairs I was comparing (alternating over 4 days, same or similar slopes, very similar conditions) are just too different to draw any sensible conclusions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So we arrived (after a hairy drive from innsbruck in nasty weather) to a very snowy La Villa. Talk about lucky…
Popped to rental shop the hotel recommended (Alta Badia Sport) and I’m not sure I’m overly impressed (they seemed a bit grumpy and the Stöckli SC I got look very beaten up) but they said we can swap skis as often as we like… I don’t think they really listened as they brought her some piste skis at 149cm (she’s 152 cm tall) so I said maybe a bit long …
We said OK to some Rossignol Nova 6 at (I think ) 144 cm… Will see how we get on…
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| sheffskibod wrote: |
So we arrived (after a hairy drive from innsbruck in nasty weather) to a very snowy La Villa. Talk about lucky…
Popped to rental shop the hotel recommended (Alta Badia Sport) and I’m not sure I’m overly impressed (they seemed a bit grumpy and the Stöckli SC I got look very beaten up) but they said we can swap skis as often as we like… I don’t think they really listened as they brought her some piste skis at 149cm (she’s 152 cm tall) so I said maybe a bit long …
We said OK to some Rossignol Nova 6 at (I think ) 144 cm… Will see how we get on… |
When I was in Tignes, I looked on the website at the list of skis the shop had for rent and carefully chose 3 possible suggestions (Model and Length) for my Brother and his Wife, knowing how they both ski.
I was there when my Brother hired....For the first choice (Addikt Pro 76) they said "We don't have those in this shop" (and didn't want to locate a pair elsewhere); but he got the second choice, but only because I pushed....So they gave him the Head Magnums, which were a demo model - meaning if someone requested them, he'd have to bring them in. Luckily, that didn't happen.
When his Wife hired, I wasn't there. They didn't have my first choice (Head Real Joy) and when she asked for my second choice (Elan Primetime No.2), they had it but gave her some Blizzards that they said were more suitable. She didn't like them and exchanged them for the Elans, which she really liked.
IME. If you don't stand your ground and if you look hesitant, the shop "can" end up giving you something that suits them. Of course, they can be right.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sun 25-01-26 18:50; edited 1 time in total
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@Old Fartbag, agree, I've found if I go in with some specific things I'd like to try and hold to that they'll find me that, or something decent.
Had a nice experience in sport 2000 in schladming today, the lady actually asked if I had any special requests, so I gave her a couple of examples and a length and she handed over some cloud 9s in the ideal length, done. Well done that shop! I do think that I've had better experiences with this in Austria than other places.
Edited to add - but some rental places are miserable and don't give a toss! So it's maybe also luck of the draw.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I didn't think the ski mattered much until today. As a (low) intermediate, I just assumed a ski was a ski.
We're in France for a week, with today being the first day skiing. I didn't pay any attention to what I was given by the rental store and started skiing this morning. It was HORRIBLE. Way more than the normal 'I've forgotten how to ski' feeling I get at the start of a holiday. It's hard to describe exactly what was wrong, because I really struggled to control them even on easy runs... but on anything vaguely challenging I just couldn't get the (new) outside ski to grip at all. Instead it would just wobble all over the place (as if I had it completely flat and was rotating my leg madly).
It was as if the ski would work if I properly committed to the outside ski and properly moved my weight, etc... but if I was even slightly sloppy it would actively try to kill me.
So I took the skis (Nordica Spitfire Ti X) back to the shop and asked them to switch them for something more like the Rossignol Arcade 82s I had in December and which I really liked. They didn't have that but gave me Atomic Maverick 84.
The difference was night and day. My confidence reappeared instantly... and I started having fun.
I imagine the Arcades/Mavericks are just way more forgiving in their design and hence more suited to low-skill recreational skiers...? But after having tried one that was most definitely NOT aimed at me I will now start paying way more attention at the rental shops.
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@gendal, Generally speaking, Nordica Spitfires are usually high performance, race inspired, piste carvers, aimed at very good advanced or expert skiers.
I would expect them to be stiff, unforgiving and require decent skill to feel comfortable on......otherwise they will be in charge of you, rather than the other way around.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@gendal, one of the few things apart from length and width (and camber/rocker if you look at them sideways) that is a giveway about skis is the presence in the name of "Ti" for Titanal (Aluminium alloy with a bit of Titanium and several other metals) in the construction. How much Titanal is another question but it's always going to make a ski stiffer and, I suspect, cause the feeling you had.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@tsgsh, @Old Fartbag thanks for those comments... yes... that would explain what happened yesterday. I was actually in two minds about keeping hold of the Spitfires because their behaviour was so brutal when I skied badly that it was like skiing with a very angry instructor... but I figured it would also be nice to actually enjoy the holiday.
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| tsgsh wrote: |
| @gendal, one of the few things apart from length and width (and camber/rocker if you look at them sideways) that is a giveway about skis is the presence in the name of "Ti" for Titanal (Aluminium alloy with a bit of Titanium and several other metals) in the construction. How much Titanal is another question but it's always going to make a ski stiffer and, I suspect, cause the feeling you had. |
There's no Titanium included.
Alloy mix of:- It is primarily composed of aluminum, Zinc (7%), Magnesium (2.5%), Copper (1.7%), and a small amount of Zirconium (0.1%), used extensively in skis for damping and stiffness. Also noted just marketing name to impress with the onention "Ti" moniker used by ski manufacturers.
That's by the by though. Including a high strength metal layer within a ski is usually focused on raising the torsional stiffness of the ski more than the camber rate.
In simple terms, its used to focus the ski performance to exacting its edge geometry (grind angles etc) and promote those out over a much more high performance envelope of use. They ordinarily won't give up edge grip easily, as that is their remit, with side effects of punishing a skill set that's not fully into making good use of such. They can certainly feel unwieldy to the uninitiated and more casual foucesd skier.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ski3 wrote: |
There's no Titanium included.
Alloy mix of:- It is primarily composed of aluminum, Zinc (7%), Magnesium (2.5%), Copper (1.7%), and a small amount of Zirconium (0.1%), used extensively in skis for damping and stiffness. Also noted just marketing name to impress with the onention "Ti" moniker used by ski manufacturers. |
Curses, I hate it when I get fooled by marketing departments, even metallurgical ones. Thanks for the correction.!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@tsgsh, yes, its a little disingenuous part of their marketing to promote levels of ski quality/price bracket by alluding to presence of a notionally expensive metal 
There's some wonderful design and materials capability within skis, with huge range for everyone at any stage of skill and intent, bringing the dilemma here of which level to be on.
Naturally, more skills properly taught is the longer term ideal. How to enjoy a week on the snow without sending a ballistic missile (probably with real Titanium content) straight through the skier's confidence and enjoyment, bringing a more considered immediate answer to this question.
The more mellow skis likely to shy away from metal layering, that to bring a progression to how the ski approaches its ultimate limits, then doesn't react with such force as the skier recognises they are approaching their personal limitations being entirely reasonable.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Old Fartbag, ...good video and corresponds to what I have been told...
my tibial head measurement with calipers is 92mm on my right leg and 98mm on my left.
the difference is due to little ACL in my left leg and the tibial head has actually grown over 40 years since my injury...weird but true
I like the junior Matras which I ski in 86 waist, which meet the criteria above - I went for Backland 98s for my latest touring skis for indeed that reason...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Old Fartbag, he he he .....
I basically stay under 92.....rather than matching each knee...which would be a bit silly
Mind you there was a day when we grabbed some skis from the dark recesses of the garage for friend Ant - two blue Salomon skis and they were NOT a pair - one 10mm longer than the other and different width - and did not notice until the car park at the end of the day....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@sheffskibod, I've just had a lovely day on some cloud 9s, hard stuff, soft stuff, absolutely grrat! If you can find some to hire definitely worth a try.
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FAQ
would get the calipers out.....Absolutely love it (and like something I'd be at)! 
