 Poster: A snowHead
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I've never heard so much entitled middle-class rubbish as from some of the remainers on here. Go back and read all the opinion from the Socialist Workers Party, union leaders, some communists and hedge fund managers all voting to leave. Brexit was about far far more than some of your skiing holiday costs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Donkeebles wrote: |
| I've never heard so much entitled middle-class rubbish as from some of the remainers on here. Go back and read all the opinion from the Socialist Workers Party, union leaders, some communists and hedge fund managers all voting to leave. Brexit was about far far more than some of your skiing holiday costs |
Indeed - Rees Mogg and his billionaire hedge fund pals were primarily motivated by desire to prevent EU from taxing their offshore assets....
The biggest political con of recent generations was Boris Johnson convincing people the EU was the source of their economic woe.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Donkeebles wrote: |
| I've never heard so much entitled middle-class rubbish as from some of the remainers on here. Go back and read all the opinion from the Socialist Workers Party, union leaders, some communists and hedge fund managers all voting to leave. Brexit was about far far more than some of your skiing holiday costs |
Indeed - Rees Mogg and his billionaire hedge fund pals were primarily motivated by desire to prevent EU from taxing their offshore assets....
The biggest political con of recent generations was Boris Johnson convincing people the EU was the source of their economic woe. |
Still doesn't make your ski holiday to France anymore expensive.
The increase in energy bills does.
The reluctance to share space with complete randoms after covid may well
Lift companies trying to recoup some of the losses of covid most defiantly
But then again Haggis, those points don't allow you to talk Britain down.
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Brexit was just another way of keeping people divided and distracted and it worked! In reality it means bug all, your ski holidays were always going to get more expensive just like everything else. The powers that be are bleeding everyone dry so eventually you will have to run to them and ask for help then they will have full control over you. People need to reunite and stop wasting their energy on political crap.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Can we (please) go back to arguing about Pole Clicking; The dangers of wearing a woolly hat while skiing and Whether one should be ostracized for wearing Sunnies with a helmet or being labelled a Gaper.
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
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| TCSC47 wrote: |
Realistic total increase:
£100–£195 per guest per week |
Bargain. That's actually a decrease if it is the nominal amount and no allowance for inflation.
UK left EU 31 Jan 2020. Compounded inflation rate is 28.6% since then according to BoE calculator.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
I think all of these directly attributable to brexit?
i) Weaker pound: Since Brexit, sterling has often been weaker against the euro and Swiss franc, making accommodation, lift passes, food, and lessons more expensive in Alpine resorts.
ii) Travel insurance increases: Insurers may charge more due to reduced reciprocal healthcare arrangements and longer stays needing extra cover.
iii)Loss of EU roaming benefits: Many UK travellers now pay extra for mobile data abroad, adding small but noticeable costs.
iv) Extra admin costs: Passport validity rules and longer border checks can mean paying for expedited passports, parking, or transfers if delays occur.
v) Seasonnaire & staffing issues: Resorts facing staff shortages post-Brexit may raise prices for lessons, childcare, and hospitality. |
i) Nope. Generally stronger since UK officially left in 2020. It goes up and down of course. Tour operators know this and buy forwards.
ii) Nope. GHIC replaced EHIC. Ski insurance goes up because people are idiots and insurance in general has gone up across most categories since Covid.
iii) Desperation. I think my ee bill was about £20 for my last trip.
iv) The only reason you need an expedited passport is if you are a numpty and didn't get the memo. Parking?  Transfer delays are normally a weather thing - is that Brexit's fault too?
v) Staff shortages would mean a lower wage bill surely.
Sorry 1/10 for trying.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
More anti Uk propaganda! Why do you not keep it to the Scottish thread and spare the rest of us |
It is a simple fact
Average wage....
UK = £39K
Germany = 55K euros
Netherlands = 44K euros
Belgium = 49k euros
Ireland = 45k euros
Denmark = 68k euros
Sweden = 49k euros
UK standard of living / economic growth has been falling behind northern European nations for sometime. Brexit compounding that effect. UK used to be one of the richest nations in Europe. That is clearly no longer the case. |
Couple of errors here:-
UK figure is in £s, rest in euros, so not a fair comparison.
Figures should be net of all taxes (Inc NI), rather than gross, IE spending power.
Also Britain used to be the world's richest nation in the 19th century - I don't think Brexit had anything to do with much of that subsequent decline, but paying for a couple of World Wars may have?
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| Kenzie wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
More anti Uk propaganda! Why do you not keep it to the Scottish thread and spare the rest of us |
It is a simple fact
Average wage....
UK = £39K
Germany = 55K euros
Netherlands = 44K euros
Belgium = 49k euros
Ireland = 45k euros
Denmark = 68k euros
Sweden = 49k euros
UK standard of living / economic growth has been falling behind northern European nations for sometime. Brexit compounding that effect. UK used to be one of the richest nations in Europe. That is clearly no longer the case. |
Couple of errors here:-
UK figure is in £s, rest in euros, so not a fair comparison.
Figures should be net of all taxes (Inc NI), rather than gross, IE spending power.
Also Britain used to be the world's richest nation in the 19th century - I don't think Brexit had anything to do with much of that subsequent decline, but paying for a couple of World Wars may have? |
Yes, gross pay is meaningless in an international comparative chat about spending power, cost of living, cost inflation.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Haggis_Trap, No one, is championing Brexit, so don’t try and pretend that they are.
What they are doing is being realistic about the affect of Brexit on the cost of your ski holiday.
You really do need to learn when you’re wrong and accept it.
While you’re doing that, might be a good time to read up on the meaning of “truth”
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
What they are doing is being realistic about the affect of Brexit on the cost of your ski holiday. |
The loss of free movement destroyed the traditional UK chalet model. Multiple long established ski business went out of business as result. Those that were left had to adapt their business model significantly
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You really do need to learn when you’re wrong and accept it. |
Quantifying an exact cost attributable to Brexit is impossible task dependent on multiple variables. What is wrong is to use that uncertainty to pretend Brexit has no negative consequences
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| While you’re doing that, might be a good time to read up on the meaning of “truth” |
Prior to Brexit 12k UK seasonaires worked in France. In recent years that dropped to just 4k/winter. A significant drop that has obvious impact on how industry operates. The post Brexit requirement to hire staff on non UK contracts has undoubetdly added to cost of a package holiday.
The only real question is by how much?.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
What they are doing is being realistic about the affect of Brexit on the cost of your ski holiday. |
The loss of free movement destroyed the traditional UK chalet model. Multiple long established ski business went out of business as result. Those that were left had to adapt their business model significantly
Prior to Brexit 12k UK seasonaires worked in France. Now that figure more like 4k/winter. A significant drop. The post Brexit requirement to hire staff on non UK contracts has undoubetdly added to cost of a package holiday. The only real question is by how much?. |
Numerous other posters have suggested other reasons for that business model no longer being viable, and the consensus is that Brexit played a very minor role, and the main contributor was French (and other) employment laws, and restrictions on UK family holidays during school terms.
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1.
How many family chalet holiday did you book in the years leading up to Brexit?
Maybe you might enlighten us on your reasons for not continuing to?
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Quantifying an exact cost attributable to Brexit is impossible task dependent on multiple variables. What is wrong is to use that uncertainty to pretend Brexit has no negative consequences |
Nobody has suggested that Brexit had no negative consequences, but the increase in the cost of skiing holidays is not a major one.
Energy prices (war in Ukraine), Covid, and simple inflation are the main reasons for increases in the last few years.
What is actually wrong is to attribute all of the blame on Bexit for your own political ambitions. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| brianatab wrote: |
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1. |
Au contraire
I would suggest skiers more likely than most demographics to have strong opinion on negative consequences of Brexit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well there has been multiple posts on this thread (from posters who don’t normally engage in this type of discussion) all going against your beliefs ( beliefs only you seem to hold)
Maybe time to take the blinkers off.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Haggis_Trap, to repeat the question, how many tour operator family chalet holidays did you book over the last decade or two?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| brianatab wrote: |
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1. |
Au contraire
I would suggest skiers more likely than most demographics to have strong opinion on negative consequences of Brexit. |
This thread is about the consequences on the cost of skiing. It's not a thread for political debate, so don't try to turn it into one.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| brianatab wrote: |
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1. |
Au contraire
I would suggest skiers more likely than most demographics to have strong opinion on negative consequences of Brexit. |
Which still puts you in a minority of 1 regarding your views relating to the impact of Brexit specifically on skiing.
Most of us seem to agree that Brexit as a whole was a very bad thing for the country. Nobody on this thread has suggested that Brexit was a good thing, or that it has had no negative consequences, so that part of your series of posts is a complete straw man.
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no doubt haggis complains about foreign grub & not eating that muck. Insists on a full fry up every morning when on his jollies in spain.
Sits in an irish bar on some spanish street watching re-runs of only fools & horses. Or has brexit done away with that as well?
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| James the Last wrote: |
| @Haggis_Trap, to repeat the question, how many tour operator family chalet holidays did you book over the last decade or two? |
Personally always been DIY guy. Would rather ski more often and longer
However I worked for two small companies (some 20+ years ago) and kept in contact with owners (who were lovely people).
One of them stopped trading as consequence of Brexit vote.
The other had to change business model significantly and runs smaller operation.
| brianatab wrote: |
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1. |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Well there has been multiple posts on this thread (from posters who don’t normally engage in this type of discussion) all going against your beliefs ( beliefs only you seem to hold) . |
Imagine trying to silence someone in such manner
FWIW: I have several friends who work as instructors & guides.
At best Brexit has been career limiting or inconvenience.
However the real impact has been on next generation, whose opportunity is much restricted.
It is has become much harder for youngsters to train level required for euro test / BASI4 (let alone UIAGM) without opportunity to live, work & train in Alps.
Real chicken and egg scenario for anyone aspiring to the level.
Absolutely no apology for calling out the well documented negative consequences of Brexit
A national act of stupidity, self harm and needless folly - though direct impact on skiers just the tip of iceberg.
Has anyone listed a benefit of brexit for skiers yet ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| James the Last wrote: |
| @Haggis_Trap, to repeat the question, how many tour operator family chalet holidays did you book over the last decade or two? |
Personally always been DIY guy. Would rather ski more often and longer
However I worked for two small companies (some 20+ years ago) and kept in contact with owners (who were lovely people).
One of them stopped trading as consequence of Brexit vote.
The other had to change business model significantly and runs smaller operation.
| brianatab wrote: |
Just accept that you are in a minority of 1. |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Well there has been multiple posts on this thread (from posters who don’t normally engage in this type of discussion) all going against your beliefs ( beliefs only you seem to hold) . |
Imagine trying to silence someone in such manner
FWIW: I have several friends who work as instructors & guides.
At best Brexit has been career limiting or inconvenience.
However the real impact has been on next generation, whose opportunity is much restricted.
It is has become much harder for youngsters to train level required for euro test / BASI4 (let alone UIAGM) without opportunity to live, work & train in Alps.
Real chicken and egg scenario for anyone aspiring to the level.
Absolutely no apology for calling out the well documented negative consequences of Brexit
A national act of stupidity, self harm and needless folly - though direct impact on skiers just the tip of iceberg.
Has anyone listed a benefit of brexit for skiers yet ? |
But, sticking to the gist of the question. Has Brexit specifically added to the cost of skiing in France? Has to viewed in context of relative to other nationals skiing in France.
For us, we didn’t do chalets with Brits on cheap labour, possibly not. Our accomodation in hotels owned by French, lift passes, flights, some private lessons, eating out … would equally affect everyone.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
But, sticking to the gist of the question. Has Brexit specifically added to the cost of skiing in France? Has to viewed in context of relative to other nationals skiing in France. |
Of course it has.
However attributing an exact cost is complex and dependent on specific circumstances.
- loss of free movement/ staffing issues
- higher insurance & breakdown cover for drivers
- more expensive travel insurance
- extra paper work and bureaucracy
- no EHIC
- roaming charges
- exchange rate (1.1 euro to £ the new normal)
Certainly the traditional chalet holiday, a quirk unique to UK, was sector most impacted. Many traditional chalet firms simply ceased trading. Others were forced to change business model..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It’s like watching a hamster on a wheel.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Regards cost of skiing, next week will be my first week back on the slopes after a 4 year gap.
I’ve found the cost of ski pass (Hochkönig / Ski Amade) to be expensive in relation to the ski km available and much more than previously.
I’m not referring to the Ski Amade km but to the Hochkonig km which is obviously a lot less and I can’t see a way to buy a pass for that resort on its own (online).
Salazburgerland makes a big deal of rightly going green (thanks for my free public transport from Salzburg) but what percentage of visitors to the area access other resorts other than where they’re based? Very few I suspect yet you’re forced to buy a pass for an area you’re not going to use unless you hire a car, get a taxi or try to utilise a dysfunctional bus service.
So, the cost of my holiday has gone up because I’m buying a ski pass for a big unconnected area I’m not going to use and am not given the option to choose.
I have skied Hochkonig previously so although other options are out there I do like the resort, just annoyed at being forced to buy a Ski Amade lift pass I won’t be using.
And none of that extra cost is Brexit related!
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You know it makes sense.
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| oldsnowy wrote: |
Regards cost of skiing, next week will be my first week back on the slopes after a 4 year gap.
I’ve found the cost of ski pass (Hochkönig / Ski Amade) to be expensive in relation to the ski km available and much more than previously.
I’m not referring to the Ski Amade km but to the Hochkonig km which is obviously a lot less and I can’t see a way to buy a pass for that resort on its own (online).
Salazburgerland makes a big deal of rightly going green (thanks for my free public transport from Salzburg) but what percentage of visitors to the area access other resorts other than where they’re based? Very few I suspect yet you’re forced to buy a pass for an area you’re not going to use unless you hire a car, get a taxi or try to utilise a dysfunctional bus service.
So, the cost of my holiday has gone up because I’m buying a ski pass for a big unconnected area I’m not going to use and am not given the option to choose.
I have skied Hochkonig previously so although other options are out there I do like the resort, just annoyed at being forced to buy a Ski Amade lift pass I won’t be using.
And none of that extra cost is Brexit related! |
As you say, all multi-day tickets are Ski Amade tickets, which is true for all resorts in the ski Amade region. But the ski Amade ticket is much less than multiple single day Hochkonig tickets. With the difference being comparable to other areas (outside the Ski Amade) which do have local multi day tickets.
And that was true 9 years ago, when I skied in Bad Hofgastein. All multi-day tickets even then were Ski Amade tickets, it was only single day tickets which were just Gastein valley.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Has anyone listed a benefit of brexit for skiers yet ? |
Up and down the country millions of voters must have got to the voting booth and thought "oh wait, what about the seasonaires? What about my artificially underpriced chalet holiday?"
For me a benefit is all the delightful Greek, Irish, Romanian, Spanish etc etc staff I meet in the alps these days. Some of them are actually there to work rather than parteeee and ski. The death of some chalet companies was well overdue and many lucky people have rediscovered hotels.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Weathercam wrote: |
As I mentioned on page one of this thread and you did not respond after conjuring up fancy exchange rates, and here you are doing it again.....
"As for exchange rate, I've lived in France for nigh on 20 yrs and the feckin Euro has been up and down, though for sure not the heady days of 1.40 but when we finally bought our place circa 2012/13 it bottomed out circa 1.08 !" |
re: exchange rate
There is no doubt that Brexit had a negative effect on £-Euro exchange rates.
The new "norm" is very much £1 = 1.1 euros.
6 months before the vote the £ was trading at 1.4 euros.
That dropped to 1.22 euros in months leading upto referendum as market jitters increased.
Rates never seen again since 2016.
Of course there are other factors (covid, financial crash etc). The 2008 crash was disasterous from Sterling.
However graph below shows that we Osborne and Cameron had finally recovered from that
... before shooting ourselves in face with brexit.
https://www.keycurrency.co.uk/gbptoeuro/
Pound to Euro – its 20-year history in a nutshell
The GBP/EUR rate started in 1999 at just above the €1.40 level.
- Within a year of the Euros launch, the value of the Pound shot up to €1.752 – which still remains the all-time high today!
- From 2003-2007, the GBP to EUR rate was fairly stable, hovering between €1.40 – €1.50.
- During the global financial crisis of 2007/8, the Pound collapsed hitting an all-time low of €1.02 in December 2008.
- In February 2016, the Brexit referendum triggered another steep decline.
- Since the Brexit vote, the Pound had been clawing its way back up against the Euro (until Coronavirus triggered another sell-off).
- In 2022, the Pound got hit again as high inflation and political instability dented confidence.
| Weathercam wrote: |
| Maybe you get tourist rates as all you really are is a punter |
I think we met once very briefly in Serre Chevalier?
If I recall correctly you were digging for a lost ski in the powder?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Haggis_Trap, UK didn't leave the EU til end January 2020. Your graph needs to include the next 6 years. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Certainly a rate of x1.22 euros has never been since 2016. |
Yeah but it has been to 1.21 several times - you are splitting hairs! And now we are at around 1.15. If I remember right the lowest it ever got was well before the Brexit vote was even mentioned.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Phantom Phil wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Certainly a rate of x1.22 euros has never been since 2016. |
Yeah but it has been to 1.21 several times - you are splitting hairs! And now we are at around 1.15. If I remember right the lowest it ever got was well before the Brexit vote was even mentioned. |
Logical fallacy. The 2008 financial crash being previously disastrous for UK economy / exchange rate doesn't mitigate the subsequent negative hit from Brexit.
FWIW: Cameron & Osborne had almost recovered from shock of 2008 before the Brexit own goal..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
- loss of free movement/ staffing issues
- higher insurance & breakdown cover for drivers
- more expensive travel insurance
- extra paper work and bureaucracy
- no EHIC
- roaming charges
- exchange rate (1.1 euro to £ the new normal)
Certainly the traditional chalet holiday, a quirk unique to UK, was sector most impacted. Many traditional chalet firms simply ceased trading. Others were forced to change business model.. |
1 - affects a very small slice. Other nationalities go on holiday as well. Only a small number of brits like the chalet experience.
2 - Nope. Can't say mine has increased by anything beyond inflation rates.
3 - Dunno as I have world wide packaged with my bank account
4 - Nope. I dunno what extra paperwork & bureaucracy you mean. Unless you mean standing at a different airport arrivals queue? Something that was likely to happen as EU tightens up its schengen rules anyway.
5 - Its been renamed & repackaged
6 - some charge, some dont. Your choice of who you want as your mobile provider.
7 - 1.1 is not the new norm. Sure it is down compared the mid teens, but exchange rates go up & down all the time. I remember when £1 was worth $2
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Out of interest, why do you think a slightly lower pound is bad for the UK anyway? (never mind your bloody ski holiday) I haven't got time today but being highly competitive on things like services (our biggest export and over 80% of our economy) is very useful.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Donkeebles wrote: |
| I've never heard so much entitled middle-class rubbish as from some of the remainers on here. Go back and read all the opinion from the Socialist Workers Party, union leaders, some communists and hedge fund managers all voting to leave. Brexit was about far far more than some of your skiing holiday costs |
Indeed - Rees Mogg and his billionaire hedge fund pals were primarily motivated by desire to prevent EU from taxing their offshore assets....
The biggest political con of recent generations was Boris Johnson convincing people the EU was the source of their economic woe. |
Offer any evidence you have about RMs "Off shore assets" this rumour has been debunked a thousand times.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Phantom Phil wrote: |
| Out of interest, why do you think a slightly lower pound is bad for the UK anyway? (never mind your bloody ski holiday) I haven't got time today but being highly competitive on things like services (our biggest export and over 80% of our economy) is very useful. |
There is valid argument that weaker currency is indeed good for exports.
Unfortunately UK doesn't make very much these days. The days of manufacture and engineering gone. Rather we have become a significant net importer of goods : weaker currency is not a likely to be longer term benefit for UK economy
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[quote="Haggis_Trap"]
| Jonny996 wrote: |
What they are doing is being realistic about the affect of Brexit on the cost of your ski holiday. |
The loss of free movement destroyed the traditional UK chalet model. Multiple long established ski business went out of business as result. Those that were left had to adapt their business model significantly
From this I will assume you think its great that Tesco and the like get wages subsidised by employing people who receive UC. If the model only worked because the pay was so bad but the lure of the mountains allowed this its a terrible business model.
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FAQ
