 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
To me, that just confirms that "AI" is not intelligent at all. Some elements may be correct, but it doesnt understand how they can or can't fit together.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
LOL
Garbage in. Garbage out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Just another Brexit bashing thread??
Seems a large proportion of the increase may be down to having to pay workers the proper rates?
Don't see how anybody can object to that. They should have been paying it years ago, rather than ripping off British seasonnaires.
Have the post Brexit EU rules only changed for British vehicles, or do the EU also comply with the same new rules?
Can anyone explain how higher insurance premiums are caused by Brexit?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Just thought it would be an interesting post.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@TCSC47, Please don't post AI slop here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good post
There is absolutely no doubt that Brexit has made skiing more expensive for UK citizens. Chat gpt makes a good summary above
The main effects are obvious:
i) Exchange rate. Brexit weakened the £ permanently
ii) Staffing. Traditional model of employing young Brits to work in Alps on a UK contract no longer viable.
iii) Higher levels of bureaucracy and insurance charges.
Brexit is an absolute tragedy. Especially for young people who aspire to "do a season". Opportunities much reduced since UK left EU. Hell mend those who thought it was a good idea
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 20-01-26 11:56; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@TCSC47, son worked last season, as many others did, as a chalet host. A little more admin to get visa but otherwise was business as usual.
Given the network he was involved in, talking to many other companies etc, all the loss of the seasonaire and locals will have to be employed has been greatly exaggerated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
ripping off British seasonnaires
|
Having done 3 seasons in the 80s-90s I never felt ripped off 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rjs wrote: |
| @TCSC47, Please don't post AI slop here. |
I was honest about where it came from.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Good post
There is absolutely no doubt that Brexit has made skiing more expensive for UK citizens. Chat gpt makes a good summary above
The main effects are obvious:
i) Exchange rate. Brexit weakened the £ permanently
ii) Staffing. Traditional model of employing young Brits to work in Alps on a UK contract no longer viable.
iii) Higher levels of bureaucracy and insurance charges.
Brexit is an absolute tragedy. Especially for young people who aspire to "do a season". Opportunities much reduced since UK left EU. Hell mend those who thought it was a good idea |
Only maybe more expensive if using UK Tour Ops, DIY not really affected cost wise, but more PITA with customs etc
As for exchange rate, I've lived in France for nigh on 20 yrs and the feckin Euro has been up and down, though for sure not the heady days of 1.40 but when we finally bought our place circa 2012/13 it bottomed out circa 1.08 !
And now more youngsters are getting jobs as UK tour ops get the visas for them, still not ideal and not good for digital workers like my daughter who still have to be conscious of the 90 days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Good post
There is absolutely no doubt that Brexit has made skiing more expensive for UK citizens. Chat gpt makes a good summary above
The main effects are obvious:
i) Exchange rate. Brexit weakened the £ permanently
ii) Staffing. Traditional model of employing young Brits to work in Alps on a UK contract no longer viable.
iii) Higher levels of bureaucracy and insurance charges.
Brexit is an absolute tragedy. Especially for young people who aspire to "do a season". Opportunities much reduced since UK left EU. Hell mend those who thought it was a good idea |
1)I skied for many years getting pretty much the same rate as now or worse, other than 2015-2016. https://www.macrotrends.net/2553/euro-british-pound-exchange-rate-historical-chart
2) Staffing, Brits getting slave labour rates? Sure it was fun for the kids, a bit like working in bars for cash, you would think people would flock from other EU countries to fill these jobs. Did you moan about a lack of foreigners to make your coffees? This seems to be a popular complaint. Does not have an impact on self catering or hotels.
3) Passport stamp you mean? What other bureaucracy do you have? As to insurance, I must have missed that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
IMO. In terms of cost increases re skiing, I think the Ukraine War's effect on Energy costs has had a greater impact.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@blahblahblah, visa requirement, 90/180 stay limits ... need anything else?
E.g. niece might well have done a season or 2 - proper ski shop job was on offer - but commitment to admin just made it unattractive. So she did 3 years in Australia/NZ instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Too bad that AI slop has invaded SH.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Not sure I agree with this - you take a looks at the likes of Crystal or Inghams, they now have way way way less chalets available and its mostly hotels or self catered. There was a really good interview with the CEO of Hotelplan talking about the impact and it's been pretty big. It's one of the main reasons the Esprit venture went because it relied on lots of UK staffed child care etc. In Tignes there was a road full of Esprit and Ingham's chalets and now only a couple remain.
Yes it's possible to do but its way slower and more expensive and as a result has had an impact.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I dont stay & have never stayed anywhere that relies on UK cheap labour.
Accomodation I book & pay in Euros. Usually a family run small hotel/guest house, or self catered chalet, or the use of sunweb for the cheapest option, etc.
Transfers I book & pay in Euros. Either rent a car (france) or take public transport when I can.
Lift Pass I book & pay in Euros. 2016 Bansko lift pass cost me £96. Today it is 341 euro. Bankso introducing a minimum wage & pegging the lev is not a Brexit problem!
Dolomites is 86euros per day. Up from around 60 euros in 2017
Flight I book in GBP. I guess a lot of it is supply & demand. Flying to Europe is not cheap compared to pre-covid. Flying elsewhere in the world has not increased anywhere near as much.
The only impact would be the small change in currency conversion.
The two I notice the most is the sharp rise in lift pass prices & flights by the time I add luggage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I don't think talking about changes since Brexit is 'Brexit Bashing'. It is a price increase that we have had to put up with as one of the impacts. If the price has not gone up then there have to have been costs saving elsewhere as there are without doubt additional costs to those providing the package holidays that have to be passed on to the customer. Even someone who was pro-brexit must be able to accept that this is a downside but they are completely entitled to their opinion that there are other upsides.
Regarding seasonaires, it may be easy for some individuals to get there and work from the UK but it is incredibly clear when in a resort there are far far less British staff so individual cases of 'it was fine for me' do not hold any weight as it is the masses that it impacts not individual cases.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Rob_Quads, exactly, not a cost you can count in pounds but Brexit badly damaged important sections of the market: family holidays (Esprit being the highest profile casualty, but the main tour operators also reduced their offers) and catered chalets.
It means fewer Britons who go skiing. If it is more difficult for families to organise ski holidays, there will be fewer who get the bug from childhood. And there seemed to be a significant number - judging by our friends - for whom the essence of the ski holiday was the catered chalet and in many cases they found they don't enjoy self-catering or hotels and simply no longer go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Legend.,
| Quote: |
I don't think talking about changes since Brexit is 'Brexit Bashing'.
|
Me neither. I think it's been pretty well demonstrated that brexshit was a pretty poor/stupid idea.
@j b, all that too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
@blahblahblah, visa requirement, 90/180 stay limits ... need anything else?
E.g. niece might well have done a season or 2 - proper ski shop job was on offer - but commitment to admin just made it unattractive. So she did 3 years in Australia/NZ instead. |
I am sure she enjoyed Australia/NZ, if she had been offered a contract the visa is really not that complicated. Ultimately a EU resident probably got the job so, how has that made skiing more expensive?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| IMO. In terms of cost increases re skiing, I think the Ukraine War's effect on Energy costs has had a greater impact. |
True : energy prices are a major reason for UK inflation and stagnant economic growth. Imagine deliberately shutting down North Sea production (78% tax rate / no new licenses) at a time Europe has desperate need for non-Russian sources of gas...
Absolute lunacy
i) Gas fired power stations remains major source of electricity production for England
ii) UK is importing the resulting gas shortfall from Norway (whose oil & gas industry is booming)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| j b wrote: |
@Rob_Quads, exactly, not a cost you can count in pounds but Brexit badly damaged important sections of the market: family holidays (Esprit being the highest profile casualty, but the main tour operators also reduced their offers) and catered chalets.
It means fewer Britons who go skiing. If it is more difficult for families to organise ski holidays, there will be fewer who get the bug from childhood. And there seemed to be a significant number - judging by our friends - for whom the essence of the ski holiday was the catered chalet and in many cases they found they don't enjoy self-catering or hotels and simply no longer go. |
Specifically about the Esprit point, I don’t think you’re right. I think they closed up that business due to the Uk fining parents for taking kids out of school. The trips were all full in school holidays. So cost was not an issue. But if you can’t take UK kids then what is the point of selling child specific holidays..?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Legend. wrote: |
| Specifically about the Esprit point, I don’t think you’re right. I think they closed up that business due to the Uk fining parents for taking kids out of school. The trips were all full in school holidays. So cost was not an issue. But if you can’t take UK kids then what is the point of selling child specific holidays..? |
it will have had some effect although not as much I think, when we were going out of school holidays even in Jan / March when we went Esprit were still very busy almost sold out. Its still possible to get your kids out if you have the right excuses (which winds me up rotten)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| brianatab wrote: |
Seems a large proportion of the increase may be down to having to pay workers the proper rates?
Don't see how anybody can object to that. They should have been paying it years ago, rather than ripping off British seasonnaires. |
| blahblahblah wrote: |
| Brits getting slave labour rates? Sure it was fun for the kids, a bit like working in bars for cash, you would think people would flock from other EU countries to fill these jobs. Did you moan about a lack of foreigners to make your coffees? |
Summary: Seasoinaires can no longer be employed in Europe on low paid UK contracts 
FWIW, I always took view that you got paid in "ski-time" when doing winter-seasons.
Any cash you got on top of lift pass / food / accommodation was just bonus beer tokens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@blahblahblah,
| Quote: |
the visa is really not that complicated
|
Complicated enough.
@Haggis_Trap, I returned from my seasons with more cash in the bank than I left with so it can't have been too bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
When boy did season last year, he had very little pay as such, was free accommodation and food and discounted lift pass. Certainly not paid a wage equivalent to a local
Visa was a 1-hour appointment and submit a few forms - straightforward
Really don't think Brexit has impacted people doing a gap-year in a chalet
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
ripping off British seasonnaires
|
This is such a daft proposition. Young, generally unqualified, people who were willing to work hard could get a roof over their head and feed themselves AND spend more time in a season than most of their fellow countrymen do in a lifetime enjoying a VERY expensive sport. A sport which many older, experienced, British workers struggle to afford. They were queueing up to be exploited - it was a competitive business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Legend. wrote: |
| Specifically about the Esprit point, I don’t think you’re right. I think they closed up that business due to the Uk fining parents for taking kids out of school.... |
I am sure there were other factors, ultimately the company will have decided its business model was no longer viable. I am sure staff costs were an issue, they used to make a point about using UK-qualified nannies for the little ones and those will have become harder and more expensive to recruit. They always used to have a big price differential between holiday weeks and other weeks, presumably covering their costs over the season, and I agree that if the demand became too low away from half term/Easter (or the price too high during) that would also impact the business model.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Were these jobs only offered by British companies?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@blahblahblah, dutch ones too. I don't think many other nationalities really did them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Boris wrote: |
When boy did season last year, he had very little pay as such, was free accommodation and food and discounted lift pass. Certainly not paid a wage equivalent to a local
Visa was a 1-hour appointment and submit a few forms - straightforward
Really don't think Brexit has impacted people doing a gap-year in a chalet |
So why are there so many fewer? What is the reason? Because the post Brexit reduction is significant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| j b wrote: |
| Legend. wrote: |
| Specifically about the Esprit point, I don’t think you’re right. I think they closed up that business due to the Uk fining parents for taking kids out of school.... |
I am sure there were other factors, ultimately the company will have decided its business model was no longer viable. I am sure staff costs were an issue, they used to make a point about using UK-qualified nannies for the little ones and those will have become harder and more expensive to recruit. They always used to have a big price differential between holiday weeks and other weeks, presumably covering their costs over the season, and I agree that if the demand became too low away from half term/Easter (or the price too high during) that would also impact the business model. |
Oh I’m sure Brexit and other factors had an impact but lack of kids outside of school holidays made a significant impact I’m sure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| @blahblahblah, dutch ones too. I don't think many other nationalities really did them. |
Thank you, you would have thought the British companies could just have used Dutch and German teens to do the job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Everything is just more expensive, ski holidays included.
Yep, you can't get a French shoebox with flights for £150 any more, but likewise, you can't get a mega resort lift pass for under £200 either.
Undoubtedly there is more hassle caused by Brexit somewhere in the holiday chain - and that will have a knock-on monetary effect - but I'd say overall post-COVID inflation has done more damage to the price of a ski holiday.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 20-01-26 16:46; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
lack of kids outside of school holidays made a significant impact I’m sure.
|
Absolutely. We always took the kids out of school in the cheapest early January weeks. And generally stayed in chalets. Where there were often other kids!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are so many interrelated factors in this that it is impossible to break it all out.
Firstly, the AI gloop, is that increase on a £700 holiday or a £2000 one? Inflation since Brexit (caused by many things including the one OF highlighted) has been in the order of 30% depending on which measure you use. Secondly employment law was already making a difference - there were lots of kids willing to be exploited - most enjoyed it - but if it had been any other industry there would have been an uproar.
Having chatted to a chalet host or two this season work visas were not a problem and sorted by the company. The chalet model was waning anyway as people demanded larger rooms, spas, saunas etc, fads became allergies which are difficult to cater for in small kitchens, cash based commissions came to an end, The French cracked down on contracts and insisted on minimum living space per employee (with a window) etc etc. Things were moving on - Brexit gave them a nudge for sure but it's not all to blame.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It’s the idiocy of the AHC/pet passport which makes the most difference to me.
Otherwise it’s impossible to split from general inflation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I’ll start by pinning my colours and saying Brexit has been a disaster for Britain, but as a ski apartment owner, I don’t think it has added anything to my running costs or holiday costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| blahblahblah wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @blahblahblah, dutch ones too. I don't think many other nationalities really did them. |
Thank you, you would have thought the British companies could just have used Dutch and German teens to do the job. |
Well of course. They could have also used French. I guess it depends on how much you are trying to overly simplify things and moving away from the business model that was previously operating successfully for both customers and staff. It's great to say what you are saying on paper. But is the reality going to work as well?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
How Brexit increased the cost of a UK→France ski package
