Winter Diesel

A snowHead

I don't recall seeing any facts on winter diesel and with a cold spell possibly on the way thought this might be of interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel

In summary, each country has a requirement which isn't as low as you might expect. eg France -15C which is the same as UK and Belgium. Austria, Germany and Switzerland are -20C

However, premium grades are much higher spec. BP ultimate is -30C regardless of which country you buy it in with Shell and Avanti almost as good.

Reference 8 mentions that diesel can absorb 8% water and that moisture entering the tank when refilling in conjunction with individual car design is a major potential cause of freezing diesel.

A snowHead

In the cold winters of the 1960s through to the early 80s in the UK I’ve seen truck drivers light a small fire under their engine sumps. The other solution was to add a bit of petrol to diesel.
Both practices probably rather frowned upon these days. Hopefully the additives will work Laughing

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Anecdotally, locals hereabouts tend to buy their diesel from BP and Shell stations, often lamenting the “cut price” garages because of exactly the argument above. Personally, we only fill up at either BP or Shell garages, accepting the higher cost.

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@adithorp, some good info there. The last really cold spell in the UK was back in 1994Since then it has never got below minus 20c across large areas so we haven’t had a big test. I can remember the temperature getting down to minus 40c in parts of the alps in 1987. I suspect we won’t ever see those temps again in our lifetimes.

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It might still be the case that supermarket diesel in France is not winter diesel although I've filled up with it and parked outside at 1600m for a week in February several times without a problem. Worth bearing in mind though - maybe best to, at least, put an amount of branded diesel in.

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All diesel in France in winter is winter diesel

After all it is free

The difference between winter and summer fuel is best described as this:
(Probably) in November 2017 my employer had a fleet of rental minibuses delivered from Annecy to Val d'Isere, where they were parked up for a few days before being issued to the resort managers.
After being started up most of them stopped, so there was a firm phonecall to the rental company who worked their nuts off bringing spare vehicles (with winter fuel in them) to Val d'I and shuttling the dead ones to Bourg (low loader?) to get them started and filled with winter fuel at a supermarket. The moral of that experience was that fuel dispensed in October was "summer brew" and in November was "winter brew".
Also, we had several of the then current Fiat Scudo/Peugeot Expert/Citroen Dispatch vans. There was a problem in these: whilst running in resort, even with resort sourced winter fuel, the filters would block due to waxing - probably a design fault with the fuel filter. The cure for this was to buy a 250 cl bottle of fuel additive, adding the prescribed amout before filling up. It also helped if the filling station had underground tanks instead of big tanks in the open air exposed to the bitter cold.

I remember being in Samoens a few years ago, and overnight temperatures were -20C and below... Most of the diesel vehicles in the valley wouldn't start - luckily I'd put a -30C additive (Wynn's, IIRC) in the tank before filling up in Cluses so our diesel Subaru did start (though nowhere near as easily as usual!).

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I had trouble last year in Carrbridge with my Diesel when it was -18. Obvs hard to start but then ran really rough until it warmed up a bit. Assumed it was waxing, was running on normal Diesel.

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Some central heating oil added to derv is far better and safer than petrol, its just "thinner" diesel than derv but will settle out in the tank so shake the car a bit to mix before you start it. We used it in the 1980's when we had a series of really cold winters and our tractors would struggle to keep going , wrapping rags round filters if they are exposed as driving at speed will chill them down until the engine warms up.
We always carry a bottle of winter additive when we go to the Alps just in case it gets really cold and we have to park outside

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I can remember squirting ether into the air intake!

@welshskier, never use easy start in a diesel. It will destroy the engine!

So, if all diesel in France is winter-diesel, is there no longer any truth to the recommendation to fill up in Annecy rather than Reims before heading to resort? And would you chance it…

You know it makes sense.

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I was in Alpe D'Huez over the New Year and it got to -12 overnight and in the morning my van wouldn't start (crank but no fire). Lots of warm water later it fired up (reluctantly) and got us home. I'm guessing the fuel we picked up at L'Eclerc in France wasn't up to the job. I'll be putting a can of additive in next year!

A snowHead

A snowHead

In winter, try not to let your fuel tank get less than three quarters full. The problem is often caused by condensation in an empty fuel tank which freezes when the temperature goes below zero.

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When you were cranking it was there white smoke from the exhaust? If so I'd look at the glowplugs rather than fuel. Also, in very cold weather, a diesel will start but as soon as it's been running for a moment the filter will clog.
As @robs1 says, -12 is not that cold, unless it's a highish mileage motor (with poorer compression).

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Good advice to keep the tank at or near full. I always fill up soon before driving up to resort.

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@onefff, with either waxing or frozen water in fuel, you'd expect it to fire, cough and stall, before crank no start. If it just cranks, no start then glow plugs are the more likely cause. Try multiple ignition on, wait for glow plug light to extinguish repeat before cranking/starting. It might help.as long as theres some passable plugs.

With a newer vehicle with a DPF, the smoke symptoms @Nemisis, mentions won't be as obvious. However poor glow plugs will also trigger a DPF fault/MIL in most cases on newer stuff.

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Thanks for the awesome responses - it's a 2015 Ford Tourneo (transit) Custom with 80k miles on it and yes, it cranked and cranked but didn't want to bark. Lots of white smoke too when it finally did fire! Could be the glow plugs I guess... The GP light goes out almost immediately (under a second) when the ignition is turned on. I only learned about the multiple GP heating trick once I got home and did a bit more research.

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White smoke is unburnt desiel passing through combustion chamber and ejected through exhaust, usually the result of no fire and ecu giving rich mix to start off.

The glow plug light, can be very misleading in its duration as the ecu can "call" for plugs on over extended period and often up to 90 seconds without showing you via the light.

Especially if plugs are not in their first flush of youth, unwilling to get out of bed readily Very Happy

turn on ignition but don't crank at all, leave for at least 1 minute, then repeat twice more (this if its really cold ambient) and then go for a start 4th attempt. This doesn't inject fuel, but effectively pre warms the combustion chamber to greater effect to fire easily when you crank it.

If its got a cigarette lighter, you can put a USB plug with digital volt readout and watch the volts stay lower during the saturation (on but not crank) it will show you when plugs are switched off with voltage rise.
They do have temperature mitigation with returning fuel that's usually warmer (it runs around from tank and returns surplus to tank) diverted through fuel filter to warm it and prevent waxing for many vehicles.

If you try it with a couple of pre heat cycles in UK now, in cold morning weather, you can judge if it fires more quickly than normal to assess effectiveness.

After all it is free

Diesels seem to vary a lot. Our V40 diesel was parked outside last week at 1600m and started almost immediately on Saturday morning although it hadn't been seriously cold. Doors and windows initially frozen up but that soon cleared.

Help!!

Winter Diesel

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