 Poster: A snowHead
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There are a couple of odd and not very reassuring bits of wording in the Staysure Policy Documents, which I've tried to get some clarity on.
Avalanche risk
In "Section 14 Optional Winter Sports Cover" of the policy document in the "Important information" is the following text:
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| You’re not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above. |
It is not immediately clear exactly what they mean by this, so I asked the following question back in 2022:
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| My question relates to winter sports cover. Could you confirm if you are covered on piste if the resort authorities state the avalanche risk as 3. It's not clear to me if the avalanche risk applies on piste or just off piste. |
The answer I got back was:
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| I can confirm you will not be covered for an avalanche risk 3 or above either on or off piste. |
Mostly I concluded that Staysure don't understand skiiing and ski resorts, but that answer really isn't very reassuring. On my latest holiday, the avalanche risk was 3 or 4 throughout the entire week.
Piste rescue
Up until now, I've never found a UK travel insurance with winter sports add-on that didn't include cover for rescue from the piste, but someone recently said they thought Staysure didn't, so I thought I'd check. See below some trimmed down "highlights" of a text chat I had with online, with a human operator, rather than their chatbot:
Me: Does your winter sports insurance cover piste rescue?
Staysure operative: {Quotes back some bits of what their policy says about Winter Sports, which doesn't answer my question.}
Me: OK, That's not relevant to my query. Does your winter sports insurance cover piste rescue? i.e. being recovered from the piste to a medical centre if injured, by appropriate means of transport.
Staysure operative: {Tells me the list of activities for which I'd require winter sports cover, e.g. skiing, sledging, etc. and the "Important information" from the Policy document, including the bit about not being covered for avalanche rating 3 or above.}
Me: Yep, I understand all that. says:But can you answer my question?
Staysure operative: Okay, let me look into this for you. Thank you for holding
{pause}
Staysure operative: we don't cover Search and rescue costs.
Me: I know, but my question isn't about "Search and rescue" costs. My question is about whether you cover someone being brought down the mountain to the medical centre if they're injured. That's not the same thing (and is covered by other UK travel insurance policies with winter sports cover).
Staysure operative: Kindly hold on I will look in to this and let you know.
{pause}
Staysure operative: Kindly note that Staysure does not cover search and rescue costs its outline in general exclusions I understood your question bud but now youve explained fully what your referring to is Airlifting.
Me: Nope - it isn't necessarily airlifting either. There's lots of ways that the ski patrol could use to bring someone down the mountain, including sledge, skidoo or helicopter. I'm starting to wonder (again) if Staysure don't really understand wintersports enough for me to trust them to insure me for them.
Staysure operative: Thank you for holding
{pause}
Staysure operative: I checked with the team. Thank you so much for the patience and sorry for the inconvenience caused. Our policies do not cover piste rescue costs. But if in a medical emergency you need transporting to the nearest medical centre that will need to be authroised by the helpline who can grant/provide support.
Me: I will pass on the news that your winter sports insurance is not fit for purpose. I'm genuinely astonished to find that they don't provide a key aspect of the cover that skiers and boards need (that is provided by all other policies I've looked into).
Staysure operative: I can understand your frustration as per the underwriter's decision we don not cover for piste rescue
Me: Wow! I am struggling a little to understand you statement above about not covering piste rescue costs but then going on to say that "if in a medical emergency you need transporting to the nearest medical centre that will need to be authroised by the helpline who can grant/provide support". Those sound like the same thing to me.
Staysure operative: in this case we will cover for emergency assistance
At the end of all of that, I'm not really sure what they cover, which I think puts me in the same position as Staysure themselves 
My conclusion is that a chocolate teapot is more useful, as I could eat that 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FFS
It was thanks to  that I first became aware of just how useless Staysure are for winter sports coverage....based on their previous answers about what they cover re Avalanche risk. This just highlights a new low.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You could have finished with - I suggest you escalate this conversation to the person within your organisation responsible for wintersports coverage. In the meantime I will be highlighting on a major UK snowsports forum how your policy based on your answers does not appear fit for purpose with a strong recommendation that skiers amd snowboarders avoid.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Oh crumbs! We're with Staysire. We're also on the transfer bus to Arabba for the Birthday bash right now  . Pray for me! (OH arranged it, i just agreed. )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you are into off piste skiing I'm surprised why you'd go to Staysure anyway. Let's face it, their main interest is retirees on cruise ships. It's like you're in a Vauxhall garage looking for a super car.
For rescue, you'd be mad not to have Austrian Alpine Club or Carte/Carre Neige even if it is already in your main policy. My AAC policy is only £50 per year and an absolute bargain.
In any case, the Staysure wording does not specifically exclude rescue so, on the basis they are covering the sport of skiing which may or may not require rescue, they'd pay out for rescue - whatever is deemed medically necessary.
Also I'd say the Avi level 3 stipulation would only refer to the off piste. If the pisted areas are all open then that's fine. I agree it could be worded better.
Nobody goes through school with the ambition to work in a call centre.
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@Phantom Phil, They have specifically been asked - by more than one - to clarify the issue...and they confirmed that it also applies to On Piste. There's a thread on here about it.
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@Old Fartbag, begs the question, why are 'more than one ' using them. Is it about saving a few quid?
A bit unusual but if there was an avalanche risk of 3 applying to the actual pistes, then the resort would be closed anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Staysure policy says: You’re not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above. That seems clear enough. The rating refers to the snow stability of the unmanaged off piste areas. Wouldn't apply to a marked piste that has been managed and secured and deemed safe to be open. Surely?
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This sounds uncannily like my conversation, many years ago now, with Dogtag, who were advertising on Snowheads all the time. After having the usual round the houses about the "boundaries of the resort" I pursued what they meant by "skiing against local advice". The policy did, in theory, cover off piste. Obviously skiing on a closed piste would not be covered but I pointed out that there is generally an avalanche danger warning, even if only 1. They were adamant that if there were ANY warning of avalanche risk, the policy would not cover any off piste skiing. I asked them to check with underwriters as that effectively mean they did NOT cover off piste skiing. They said yes, they'd checked, and any level of avalanche danger warning would mean no cover but that apart from that, off piste skiing was covered.
I went with the SCGB if I remember rightly.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@maggi, have a great time!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Phantom Phil wrote: |
| Staysure policy says: You’re not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above. That seems clear enough. The rating refers to the snow stability of the unmanaged off piste areas. Wouldn't apply to a marked piste that has been managed and secured and deemed safe to be open. Surely? |
This is the thread I was referring to: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=156081&start=280
Dippy: Finally update(s) received after sending further request.
So - my question was as follows:-
With reference to policy wording - Page 36, Section 17, a)
The following quote:-
You are not covered when engaging in organised
competitions, or when engaging in an activity
against local authoritative warning or advice.
Resort authorities classify avalanche risk as follows:
1 = Low, 2= Moderate, 3= Considerable, 4= High,
5 = Very High. You are not covered in areas
classified as avalanche rating 3 or above
Could you please clarify - if you are skiing ON PIste and the avalanche risk is 3 or above this would invalidate any claim?
This was the first reply I received -
If you choose to Ski in an area not covered by the policy, then you would not be able to claim for anything relating to this incident. i.e. a broken leg whilst on a rating 3 area
I then replied that this did not answer my question and received the following reply:-
I apologise that my email did not provide you with the information you needed. When I stated not covered by the policy, I meant an area of avalanche 3 or above.
You are not covered if you ski in an area with an avalanche risk of 3 or above.
Then...
The final reply to my query with Staysure as copied below -
Good afternoon,
Thankyou for getting back to me.
Whether you are on piste or off piste - You are not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above.
Personally, I think there is enough ambiguity in their policy, that they are worth avoiding.
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"Ambiguity" in this case seems to mean that, as somebody said earlier, this company has no idea how skiing works.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Origen wrote: |
| "Ambiguity" in this case seems to mean that, as somebody said earlier, this company has no idea how skiing works. |
That is exactly my worry.
My Daughter used them in the past - only the once - and with so many alternatives, why would one risk it (once you become aware of these worrying conversations).
Insurance is already enough of a minefield.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 1-02-26 9:50; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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From the Avalanche Bulletin for tonight for the Haute Tarentaise:
Bulletin d'estimation du risque d'avalanche
(valable en dehors des pistes balisées et ouvertes)
Translates as Estimation of the Avalanche Risk Bulletin
(Valid for areas outside marked and open pistes).
So Avi Risk in France is not valid for on piste skiers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Slightly ironic that outside the Isles, Stay sure is an adult diaper product. Was curious about the comparison to a chocolate teapot. I suppose insurance is a bit like an adult diaper... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Insurance experts here … is Staysure okay for piste skiers?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Insurance experts here … is Staysure okay for piste skiers? |
No.
They clearly have no ide about skiing.
From quotes here they have at least twice confirmed that you are not covered even for on piste skiing if the avalanche risk is 3 or higher.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Seemed quite clear when I questioned them a few years back, policy wording states "You’re not covered in areas classified as avalanche rating 3 or above." Their answer at the time was "if the resort is has signs stating Avalanche warning 3 and above then you are not covered"
Personally I have never seen an Avalanche warning saying that the forecast only applied to the off-piste area.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Timc wrote: |
Personally I have never seen an Avalanche warning saying that the forecast only applied to the off-piste area. |
Actually, isn’t avi warning typically aspect specific? So what does a grade 3 forecast mean?
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@Timc, All Meteo France Avalanche Bulletins say what I quoted above.
@abc, In France a level is published from 1-5. 3 is marqué or considerable. They only ever issue two levels by altitude not by aspect. But they show where it is more dangerous or more likely using a compass rose - black is bad.
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| Quote: |
| I have never seen an Avalanche warning saying that the forecast only applied to the off-piste area. |
Do you work for Staysure @Timc? 
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I take on board what @chocksaway has quoted....but there are Pistes in the path of a potential Off Piste avalanche. If there is a L3 risk, which then impacts a Piste that you are on, what is the position of Staysure?
As the people on the phone (and the people they report to) seem to be totally clueless....the only way to know for sure is when you put in a claim. For me personally, that is unacceptable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Why
..WHY...would any of us take the risk of "insurance " with Staysure after reading their responses?
Case closed!
Use a.n.other
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Just had exactly this with Staysure - we have just spent a week where the avalanche risk was 3 for all 8 days we skiied!
Found LV to be good for annual worldwide - winter sports (enough to cover for 3 weeks in a year) and cruise cover
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Scooter in Seattle, the "chocolate teapot" is a well known figure of speech in British English. It denotes an object with a clear, single, function for which its constitution renders it unsuitable. There are "chocolate fireguards" too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Insurance experts here … is Staysure okay for piste skiers? |
The answer to this depends on what you mean by ok. But almost certainly yes. But also, you won't know for sure unless you have to claim (or unless someone else comes along who has tried to), and you don't want to trust the advice of random punters on here any more than you want to trust an insurance company for skiing that can't define its policy correctly or answer fairly straightforward questions.
To exclude on piste rescue without specifically excluding it in a winter sports policy would be unreasonable, and I strongly suspect wouldn't stand up in court if it ever got that far. But the reality is that when a claim was being handled you would very likely be dealing with someone who understands the claim and policy much better than whatever random idiots they have answering policy wording questions.
But I'll say again to be clear, you shouldn't trust my advice and you shouldn't trust Staysure if you can avoid it...
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@sugarmoma666, thanks for sharing this. You were much more patient than I’d have been.
I wonder whether the operative really was consulting with their team, or quoting from an Artificial Ignorance system?
I guess lots of people who don’t check their small print are not covered for major risks and costs. I’ve never insured with Staysure them and won’t be, even for a non-skiing trip.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Phantom Phil wrote: |
| For rescue, you'd be mad not to have Austrian Alpine Club or Carte/Carre Neige even if it is already in your main policy. My AAC policy is only £50 per year and an absolute bargain. |
Aren't both of those just for rescue from off piste, you still need cover for the treatment you need beyond that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks @sugarmoma666, this is super-useful, thanks. Glad for two things really: (1) I didn't know any of this last year when the whole family went skiing (2) And that we didn't need thankfully to call upon our StaySure insurance.
So having identified StaySure as not great, what insurance *is* great for:
- Piste skiing
- Off-piste skiing
?
The Austrian Alpine Club seems good. So also does something like https://www.snowcard.co.uk/activity-levels/adventure-plus
I'm guessing that this kind of conversation has already happened elsewhere on snowheads - happy to just be pointed there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Phantom Phil wrote: |
| For rescue, you'd be mad not to have Austrian Alpine Club or Carte/Carre Neige even if it is already in your main policy. My AAC policy is only £50 per year and an absolute bargain. |
Aren't both of those just for rescue from off piste, you still need cover for the treatment you need beyond that. |
Carre Neige has cover for a lot more than just piste rescue:
https://carreneige.com/en/nos-offres/carre-neige/depliant-simplifie/
(I'm not recommending it. I never buy it. However, I'm amazed at how many people pay for it without knowing what they're buying.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I guess the ultimate question here is whether anyone has successfully claimed with Staysure for an on piste incident when the Avi level was 3 or above.
+1 for Carre Neige - always get it, never used it, but have been with friends who haven't had it and have paid lots of Euros for a blood wagon, instead of a quick scan of your ski pass, all sorted, no questions asked.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rolandorolando, the conversation has happened many times. do a search
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@holidayloverxx fair enough, will do.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I'm amazed at how many people pay for it without knowing what they're buying.
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It's the cost of a (not in a posh place) coffee. Doesn't merit too detailed a cost-benefit analysis.
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@Origen, that's my logic. Not much money but I know at the very least will make getting off the mountain a much easier affair.
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I have had Staysure for a couple of years but last January somebody took me out while in France. I also had piste cover with lift pass and that included getting me to the med centre, however I was later billed for it and Staysure covered it and all other costs without any issues. They even sent a nurse out nurse to repatriate me back to UK. We couldn't fault the support they provided.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Origen, thanks for the explainer. A physical oxymoron. I'll be using it.
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@Scooter in Seattle, the phrase is 'its as much use as a chocolate teapot'
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FAQ
