 Poster: A snowHead
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I've used this for a number of years, indeed on the last PSB, however when looking to review some runs today, it's now asking for a subscription - is this a new development, or has a.long overdue update caught up with me?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mine did the same when away at New Year, there's a button that says something like "I've paid previously" just keep clicking that and then it works as normal. But have to do it at the start of each day. Not sure it's a permanent fix but worked for me for a week 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It seems they want you to pay 4.99 a week or 49.99 a year for something that was previously a one off purchase of the app for 4.99.
Have yet to work out if I don’t pay that it continues to work as is, or whether it’s been borked in some way.
The only thing I noticed was it didn’t want to start an activity without a data connection.
I won’t be paying, one off 4.99 seemed fair, I don’t need more than that provided as I also have Garmin connect and Strava so will just ditch the app if it becomes non functional without a subscription.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Strangely, I had a similar message when I opened it yesterday. Thought it must be a recent update. Used to open the page to start a track, now opens to the logo and prompts continue, which takes you to the subscription page.
If you press continue, then the back button on your phone, it opens up on the usual page.
I can see the attraction of subscription from their point of view, but not worth paying if you only actively use it a couple of weeks a year and for reference. They might just be trying to trick new users into paying (either that or it got hacked and someone is trying to harvest bank details?)
Plenty of other similar apps available if they try to make it compulsory, which would be a shame as it's a good app.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@bouquetin, Just tried to start a track and it was ok. no problem accessing history either, but it did have a data connection. will try it again when out of range.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just done a test - Turned mobile data and WiFi off, launched the app, got this message on the splash screen, the app wouldn’t even launch.
“Network error
Offline access is available for Premium users only. Please connect to the internet or upgrade to Premium to continue
OK“
Turning data back on seems to make the app work exactly as before. But maybe there are some other things I’ve not found.
Given mobile data is ubiquitous in most ski resorts I can’t see any reason to pay for premium.
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Oh what a pity, as you say who’s going to pay for that? I’ve got 7 or so years of data stored and would be quite sad not to add to it. But not sad enough to pay £5/month!
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| abricotine wrote: |
| Oh what a pity, as you say who’s going to pay for that? I’ve got 7 or so years of data stored and would be quite sad not to add to it. But not sad enough to pay £5/month! |
I've taken it as a sign to stop tracking my skiing. It still feels a bit odd not to know how far I've skied but it's not really bothering me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We all bought a product, and now find we're the product. Just another sign of societal enshittification. (haven't used ski tracks for years, as I always found it drained the phone battery)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In my case it didn't even work properly: insufficient permissions to run in the background. I seem to remember it being better at prompting you through the requisite settings (mind you, it may have been my aging eyesight). The new subscription page has a modern look and feel but it's just bolted on the front and the app still has it's old retro interface, so it just looks like Corecoders who made the original have sold up and/or out and this is just a lazy way to make money from an old app. I also had to keep redoing my temporary subscription each day, and after 3 days I'd had enough. I tried Slopes once but didn't get on with it (aimed at the people who take Strava more seriously than the skiing).
So, Garmin (and Strava, despite the foregoing statement) for me: I've done both for the last few years anyway.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hrmph. Still, I duplicated on Garmin and uploaded to Strava anyways.
Ski Tracks just provided a quick and easy reference for ski trips vs general day to day exercise recording.
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| Richie_S wrote: |
Hrmph. Still, I duplicated on Garmin and uploaded to Strava anyways.
Ski Tracks just provided a quick and easy reference for ski trips vs general day to day exercise recording. |
This. It was a nice feature that the app tagged the resort I was in and counted the days per season. But not £5 worth of nice.
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You know it makes sense.
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Pretty much standard these days unfortunately. A useful/successful App is taken over/bought out, and to use an Americanism “Moneytized”. A prime example was Photobucket, which was used by millions, then effectively became useless as years of linked photos were blocked.
As a former IT professional I monitor who is monitoring me, and typically I block 15 to 20 thousand tracking attempts a week. Likewise with Apps, I always check the security access requested before installing an App, and if there is anything not directly related to the Apps stated function I don’t install it. You would be surprised how much access you can give to external companies by installing what appears to be a simple widget, for example all your browsing history and contact information.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You can't really blame Corecoders for trying.
Looking back at this app I bought it in 2011 when the one off purchase model was pretty standard for apps, in-app purchases were pretty new. I can't remember how much I bought it for, maybe £4.99. And it basically did everything you could ever want a ski tracking app to do. The old model for software was the only way to get more money from users was to get more of them or to encourage existing ones to upgrade to get new features or versions that work on newer hardware etc.
Apple's app store model didn't really make that viable, apps are expected to work on newer hardware, users would ditch old apps if they didn't work on a new phone, rather than upgrade to a different app. It was the opposite model to previously, old software would work on old devices but you had to upgrade software when you upgraded a device; now old software was expected to work on new devices and support for older devices was what would be removed. So their only potential for revenue was more users or figuring out a different way to get money from existing users. And more users looks tricky. If I came to skiing now I'd have zero need for ski tracks, wouldn't even search, the ubiquity of smart watches, multisport tracking apps etc. mean I wouldn't need it. Back then I downloaded it because I had a new phone with GPS and no other way of tracking.
Where I think they've gone wrong is the additional features, pricing and value proposition. I can see they've tried to recognise that skiing is a holiday based sport with a £4.99 one off in-app purchase for a weeks access, but that seems pricey for what is a nice to have. And the new features are all about sharing, but other apps have that sewn up, there is zero value in being able to share my ski tracks with the few other users of Ski tracks when they can also see me on strava, are part of the ski trip whatsapp group and the apple photos shared album. The communication was also terrible, the first I knew was opening the app at the boot room door to be confronted with an error message and talking about premium users.
What would I have done?
- Doubled down on the skiing nerds, made this the must have app for analysing skiing
- Easier sync from a device - make that a more obvious feature - I don't want to record the track on my phone to use the app, sync with Garmin etc.
- Sensible pricing - £49.99 is Strava premium territory. A one off purchase to keep this working on a new version of iOS, or a few quid one off purchase for a season of new tracks might be OK.
i.e. don't enshitify the app to try to be the same thing as everything else in search of the holy grail of subscription revenue, provide genuine value to users, ask a sensible price.
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Poster: A snowHead
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While I understand the frustration, are you really expecting someone to build, develop and support and App, with all the associated staff, hosting costs, and not charge for it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Boris They did charge for it; not a lot but ...
A few quid for the year I'd probably pay. Not what they are they are asking
PS No my username is nothing to do with the App 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@skitrack, if it's £4.99 per month, is there not an option to subscribe for month and then cancel? Sounds like they may need to consider their pricing as the once a week skier isn't going to pay for an annual subscription .
particularly not those who (like me) already have a Strava subscription and use the Ski tracker on that
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Boris wrote: |
| While I understand the frustration, are you really expecting someone to build, develop and support and App, with all the associated staff, hosting costs, and not charge for it? |
This.
I moved to the Slopes App from Ski Tracks a few years ago as it was much more develop (for our needs) at the time while Ski Tracks was stagnant which is perfectly acceptable for a free app. Slopes offered family tracking on the slopes and a social element - I pay around £40 for a year for a family plan and for this we are seeing lots of improvements to the app and also email support. I am not affiliated but I recommend you take a look at the free version which as far as I can tell does everything that is available from SkiTracks plus more features and better battery usage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If it was 4.99 for the 1 month then I might consider it, if I didn't already have a watch that syncs to various sites for free.
They need to adapt it to be multi (year round) sport with wintersports as the special features. And do a better job at monetising all that free data they've been gifted, maybe with ads for those on the free tier.
No way would I pay an annual sub. Same way I refuse to pay for Strava, when premium gives me nothing extra that I care for.
Eventually they will all go the way of Endomondo. Start "free", monetise, cheese off the subscribers, get bought out, close down. And Strava is stuck in the middle of that timeline.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Although I got the payment prompt screen I bypassed it going by back buttoning into History and can start recording a track.
It seems to be working for me? Unless I've accidentally got into the 7 days free period...
I think from reading the Terms and Conditions, you may be able to continue with the free version for 'limited features'.
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What is the difference between the (Green Icon) Ski TRacks Lite and GPS Maps and the (Blue Icon) Skitracks Apps?
Could it be that the Green one is the free(er) version?
I thought at first it was Apple and Android but not so sure now, as it looks as if I can download both to Android.
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| BlueJ12345 wrote: |
What is the difference between the (Green Icon) Ski TRacks Lite and GPS Maps and the (Blue Icon) Skitracks Apps?
Could it be that the Green one is the free(er) version?
I thought at first it was Apple and Android but not so sure now, as it looks as if I can download both to Android. |
Before this addition of the subscription via in-app payments the green one was a free trial version - you could only record a few tracks. The blue one was the full version which you had to buy on the app store and gave you the same functionality with unlimited tracks. That was how this premium app business worked before in-app purchases.
Now both are free to download and look to be identical. I can only assume they have kept both to try to trap both people who have paid for the app and the free version users into the subscription model.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Boris wrote: |
@skitrack, if it's £4.99 per month, is there not an option to subscribe for month and then cancel? Sounds like they may need to consider their pricing as the once a week skier isn't going to pay for an annual subscription .
particularly not those who (like me) already have a Strava subscription and use the Ski tracker on that |
You can subscribe for a week and then cancel for £4.99, but you have to remember to cancel, or a year for £49.99, same deal with cancellation. On the app store it says you need to do this to "unlock premium features".
Anyone yet to discover what the premium features are? The only one I've found is the ability to start recording a track while offline which seems to be of very little value, anything else?
| Boris wrote: |
| While I understand the frustration, are you really expecting someone to build, develop and support and App, with all the associated staff, hosting costs, and not charge for it? |
I don't think anyone suggested that. It was paid originally, but as you highlighted there are some ongoing costs to the developer to keep the app working, even if they don't improve it. I'd be quite accepting of an option to pay a reasonable cost for them keeping the app working on newer phones (can you have an in-app purchase for "make this work with iOS 26"). If they didn't consider this, then more fool them. If they did consider this but realised that no matter how small the fee people would likely just ditch the app rather than pay to keep it as it, given it is now superseded by Slopes and Strava's free tiers then fair enough.
Maybe they're planning a load of new features that will sit behind the paywall but, unlike Strava when they launched and expanded premium, they don't want to wee wee everyone off by taking away things that were previously free. And recognised that would be even more irksome given we'd paid for the app originally (although paid with no real expectation it would keep working 10 iOS versions later).
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I’m not seeing this subscription thing? I open the app, press continue, then it looks like I can just start a new track and save it to my existing library. There is a log in / sign up box but I can just delete that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The logical solution that wouldn't wee wee off customers would be to update the app for newer phones, and ask them to simply pay for the new version as a reasonable one off charge. I don't think anyone could argue with that.
It would give them some income, and they could probably repeat the process every 8-10 years.
Asking people to pay £50 a year for the one or two weeks they actually use it, or a monthly fee (hoping they will forget to cancel) rip off is simply a non starter.
I don't have Strava or Garmin as I simply have no need.
What I like most about skitracks is the ability to check timings on previous routes for planning days out, or more often advising other Snowheads.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Ozboy wrote: |
| Boris wrote: |
| While I understand the frustration, are you really expecting someone to build, develop and support and App, with all the associated staff, hosting costs, and not charge for it? |
This.
I moved to the Slopes App from Ski Tracks a few years ago as it was much more develop (for our needs) at the time while Ski Tracks was stagnant which is perfectly acceptable for a free app. Slopes offered family tracking on the slopes and a social element - I pay around £40 for a year for a family plan and for this we are seeing lots of improvements to the app and also email support. I am not affiliated but I recommend you take a look at the free version which as far as I can tell does everything that is available from SkiTracks plus more features and better battery usage. |
This too! Slopes does what I need for free.
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If 4.99 is so steep a cost per month, why would you not ensure you didn't forget to cancel after the holiday? Use the phones calendar to set a reminder?
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You know it makes sense.
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| ste_B wrote: |
| If 4.99 is so steep a cost per month, why would you not ensure you didn't forget to cancel after the holiday? Use the phones calendar to set a reminder? |
Legacy data and comparison over time.
Would it still be there when you sign up to use it the next year?
Data aficionados tend to like to see trends over time and this was met by the one off Ski Tracks purchase - you could compare days/speeds/distance/etc per season
With over 500k downloads, they could have raked in a fair chunk if they had just gone for a £5 annual charge instead.
Interestingly, looking at their T&C's, they specify no currency, just 4.99 or 49.99 sums.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@SBP, how much do you think it costs to develop, maintain and host an application like that each year?
I wouldn't pay a one off 5 ukp fee and count on the app working forever.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I had the have to pay experience last week when I was in Courchevel Le Praz. Unfortunately as it was at the base station, I didn't have my reading glasses on and couldn't navigate to the free area and "had to" subscribe. I opted for the yearly charge as I have many years on this. I was quite annoyed and very annoyed when it asked again the next day but it does seem to have settled down. It is a steep cost and I'm not sure once this season is over whether I will renew.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ste_B wrote: |
@SBP, how much do you think it costs to develop, maintain and host an application like that each year?
I wouldn't pay a one off 5 ukp fee and count on the app working forever. |
 ... Which was why i suggested they look at an annual fee that would have ensured this maintenance/hosting with their existing users as opposed to the new weekly/annual fees that ensures loss of existing user base and with a less than optimal new offering, less than optimal new take up.
Anyway, thought you didn't do Apps?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have emailed them saying I don't understand the Terms and Conditions, and what is it I am getting for 'Premium'?
They have also muddled up the Terms with the Privacy Policy in an unhelpful way. I got an automated reply with a link 'if you want to unsubscribe' but only from Apple Store... 
Be aware - ~ it is a cost PER WEEK or a cost PER YEAR (not a cost per month)!!!!! See below.
BUT - At the Choose Your Plan screen - hitting the cross in the top left seems to take you to the normal landing/settings page without having to commit to anything.
Ski Tracks Lite & GPS Maps – Privacy Policy
Privacy Policy for Ski Tracks Lite & GPS Maps Application
This Privacy Policy describes how Ski Tracks Lite & GPS Maps (“we,” “us,” or “our”) collects, uses, and shares personal information when you use our mobile application, Ski Tracks Lite & GPS Maps (the “App”). By using the App, you consent to the practices described in this Privacy Policy.
You can access limited Ski Tracks Lite & GPS Maps features or subscribe for unlimited access to all features.
Auto-renewing subscriptions are available with the following options:
Premium Weekly: $4.99 USD / €4.99 EUR per week
Premium Yearly: $49.99 USD / €49.99 EUR per year
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I had the same issue. Used Ski tracks for years then opened the app on first day of latest holiday (over New Year) and was confronted with subscription screen. Was disgusted and didn't proceed. Did some research at the coffee stop and found the Slopes app. Downloaded that. It has 2 versions basic (free) with reduced functionality but enough to record your day. Premium (paid) with extended features. Wasn't interested in premium ... but ... during some research in the evening found a reddit post from the developer of slopes commenting on the fact that ski tracks was now pay-only. Many previous users were said to be very annoyed. Anyway he offered any one who converted from Ski Tracks to Slopes (by uploading an old ski tracks day) free premium for a year. Needless to say I downloaded an old ski tracks day and uploaded and lo and behold on restarting slopes I'm now a premium user. No payment. He's gambling people will enjoy premium features so much they'll pay in future. It might be a time limited offer, I can't remember.
For what it's worth, I really liked Ski Tracks. Slopes is a bit different and doesn't have the side-on altitude graph. However I'm giving it a go this season (for free!)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@BlueJ12345, £4.99 a week, assuming auto renewal is cancellable, is good value if you are just subscribing for a week while on holiday and a rounding error on the total cost of a ski trip.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ozboy, yes, I agree.
I am not against paying for an App I use, and am happy to support App developers/coders. Just that it would be nice to understand what the options are, and to be able to understand the terms and conditions (especially the cancellation information). It's not clear that I can pay for a week, drop off, and then pay again for a week another time, keeping my track history over the last 5 years..
<£1 a week towards something I've used, I like and am likely to use isn't really that terrible either.
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@BlueJ12345, I think it would be unsusal if you would lose the history should you pause your premium. Strava and many other sports apps keep the data whilst paused and and make it visible when again when back to premium.
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Asics Runkeep App - has a "Downhill Skiing" option on it.....I haven't tried it but if it tracks your walks/runs/cycles etc I can't see it being much different.
Could be useful??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dazman wrote: |
Asics Runkeep App - has a "Downhill Skiing" option on it.....I haven't tried it but if it tracks your walks/runs/cycles etc I can't see it being much different.
Could be useful?? |
As does Garmin Connect - you record on Garmin watch and it automatically syncs to the GC app which then exports to Strava. Data seems accurate from watch’s GPS and does not impact phone battery. It differentiates between going uphill in a lift and sking downhill and has all the main data.
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@Ozboy, doesn't the uphill/downhill differentiation depend on the watch having an altimeter?
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FAQ
